Shaun Hill Will Return

[lionsFTW]

Plus if you're lucky you can have your backup come in and blow up over a very small sample of starts and get some dumb schmucks to grossly over value em like New England did with Cassel, Philly did with Kolb and Green Bay is about to do with Flynn!

Edit: I realize I did a poor job of explaining myself and what I meant was you think Kansas City would have given up a 2nd rounder for Cassel if they had seen him start for 30 games? They did it because they only got to see ~10 games and he looked very good over that small sample. Now that they've seen an extrapolated sample size they would shit bricks if somebody offered them a 2nd rounder for him!

Its exactly whats gonna happen with Flynn. Some team is going to shell out major $$$ for him and possibly give GB a pick if they franchise him all based off of like two games played last year and the game he had against us this year, when in reality nobody knows what the hell he is.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Look at the article slick posted. look at the teams in the bottom who roll with rookie or vet minimum guys as their backups.

Saints = Superbowl
New England = Superbowl
New York = Superbowl
Indy = Superbowl
Green Bay = Superbowl

All those teams know if their #1 goes down the season is pretty much a rap. Why spend good money on a guy who doesn't accomplish what your ultimate end goal is. I mean if your happy to just make the playoffs then fine, spend on a #2. If your trying to win ships, spend as little on a #2 as possible and put the money to use elsewhere imo.

So just go cheap regardless if they have talent? What about the game where Stafford only misses the fourth quarter with Detroit ahead 21-17. You want a crappy rook trying to secure that win?

 

[lionsFTW]

yes, Mitch, I want you back there throwing bombs! lol, of course your gonna be looking for guys who have talent. you either pick up guys on the cheap that other teams simply don't have room to develop or you draft and groom.

the point being when you have a top 5 signal caller in the league your expectation is to not have to rely on 1 quarter or even 1 or 2 games being make or break in regards to your season. Stafford fits that mold and like I said earlier, if he goes down for any real length of time the season is lost anyways so whats the point other than to just make the playoffs and get bounced? put the money to use elsewhere. we could take exactly what we were paying Tulloch + Hill last year and give it exclusively to Tulloch this year and hes possibly back depending on how crazy a deal he's looking for! WAAAYYYYYY better use of that money if you ask me!

 

[manchild98]

yes, Mitch, I want you back there throwing bombs! lol, of course your gonna be looking for guys who have talent. you either pick up guys on the cheap that other teams simply don't have room to develop or you draft and groom.

the point being when you have a top 5 signal caller in the league your expectation is to not have to rely on 1 quarter or even 1 or 2 games being make or break in regards to your season. Stafford fits that mold and like I said earlier, if he goes down for any real length of time the season is lost anyways so whats the point other than to just make the playoffs and get bounced? put the money to use elsewhere. we could take exactly what we were paying Tulloch + Hill last year and give it exclusively to Tulloch this year and hes possibly back depending on how crazy a deal he's looking for! WAAAYYYYYY better use of that money if you ask me!

Actually 1 or 2 games is make or break in the NFL for playoff teams. If Staff goes down for 2 or 3 games in the middle of the season....that could be the difference bewteen an 11-5 or 10-6 record and making the playoffs or a 9-7 or 8-8 record and missing them. GB was a 6 seed and got hot when they won and the Giants had the worst record out of any playoff teams in the NFC last year.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Point is, do I wish we had a good two that made minimum money, sure. But who is this magical guy that wants minimum money outside a rook whoo isn't near ready? And you say what does it matter, it matters if staffs needs to come out for a play, a quarter or even a game. I trust Hill to get a key play or a win over a rook.

 

[lionsFTW]

Its all good. I've said my piece and laid out my argument logically. Other than spouting out random hypothetical situations nobody has made an argument for spending the money on Hill over putting it elsewhere. Cool. The info is right on page one in the article slick posted. When you have a legit superstar QB the "smart" organizations spend the money elsewhere and shoot for championships.

Go look for yourselves. The only team in damn near the last 20 years to have won the Superbowl with a backup QB in the top 50% of salaries for backups was Pittsburgh when they had Byron Leftwich!!!! Nobody else unless you want to count Bledsoe as the backup when Brady took over or Trent Green as the backup when Warner took over, and guess what, those guys who took over and led their teams to championships were minimum deal players.

Established veteran backups are nothing more than stop gaps for rebuilding franchises trying to find their stud QB's.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You laid out a bad plan. And its 3m, its 2m over the cheapest guy you can get. And you'd bring in an undrafted rook in place of vet who might not be great but is loads better than undrafted guy to save 2 lousy million. And no, vets are there to hope save a game that an unproven rookie can't. Stafford goes down, maybe Hill gets a win against the Ram where as a rookie is a lost. Nice plan.

 

[lionsFTW]

yes because all late round rookies are destined to lose every time they step on the field. please go inform TJ Yates he didn't just go 4-4 and win a playoff game with a good roster!

that's right, my plan is soooo bad. that's why pretty much every team in the last decade that's won a Superbowl has followed said plan.

riiiiiiight. . .

sheesh, its literally like you're just putting your hands over your ears and saying "la la la I can't hear you".

its cool though, enjoy shipping Shaun Fucking Hill 3+ milli this year to sit on his thumbs and take away the money that could be used for a starter at another position. and when you're screaming at your TV watching Eric Wright getting abused and wondering "fuck, why did Mayhew bring back this piece of shit scrub" remember its your super brilliant fucking plan to ship a backup QB 3 mill instead of $400k that's the cause!

 

[lions2011]

Linehan runs a pretty complex offense....it is very QB friendly as it has alot of half field reads and line check offs....there is NO WAY YOU bring in a rookie an install him as a #2 in 2012..the Lions dont have an Arian Foster like Yates had to take alot of pressure off....Hill is the best option for this year , he knows the system and the players.

whether they draft a rookie in rounds 4 - 7 and groom him for the #2 or they go out and sign a journeymen guy like McCown as it has been reported is yet to be seen....even Stanton could find his way back as a #3.

paying Hill 2.5 - 3 million for 2012 is pretty much market rate for a guy with his experience.

 

[food4thought]

It may seem wise to spend a bit more for a competent backup because of Stafford's injury history, but if Stafford goes down for any length of time this year, who the bakup is would be moot (unless he was a highly regarded prospect) because the fate of this franchise over the next five years DEPENDS on having Stafford healthy and producing consistently. This team is built around him and Megatron on offense and the DL on defense, and if Stafford goes out for more than a few games it really puts this season into the trash bin AND brings Stafford's long term capability into real doubt.

I say roll with a cheap option as #2.

 

[tsmith7559]

It may seem wise to spend a bit more for a competent backup because of Stafford's injury history, but if Stafford goes down for any length of time this year, who the bakup is would be moot (unless he was a highly regarded prospect) because the fate of this franchise over the next five years DEPENDS on having Stafford healthy and producing consistently. This team is built around him and Megatron on offense and the DL on defense, and if Stafford goes out for more than a few games it really puts this season into the trash bin AND brings Stafford's long term capability into real doubt.

I say roll with a cheap option as #2.

as a season ticket holder...NOPE

 

[lions2011]

It may seem wise to spend a bit more for a competent backup because of Stafford's injury history, but if Stafford goes down for any length of time this year, who the bakup is would be moot (unless he was a highly regarded prospect) because the fate of this franchise over the next five years DEPENDS on having Stafford healthy and producing consistently. This team is built around him and Megatron on offense and the DL on defense, and if Stafford goes out for more than a few games it really puts this season into the trash bin AND brings Stafford's long term capability into real doubt.

I say roll with a cheap option as #2.

not going to happen.

 

[mhughes0021]

Linehan runs a pretty complex offense....it is very QB friendly as it has alot of half field reads and line check offs....there is NO WAY YOU bring in a rookie an install him as a #2 in 2012..the Lions dont have an Arian Foster like Yates had to take alot of pressure off....Hill is the best option for this year , he knows the system and the players.

whether they draft a rookie in rounds 4 - 7 and groom him for the #2 or they go out and sign a journeymen guy like McCown as it has been reported is yet to be seen....even Stanton could find his way back as a #3.

paying Hill 2.5 - 3 million for 2012 is pretty much market rate for a guy with his experience.

Yates took what looked to be the best team in the league under Schaub and turned them into bascially a .500 (2-3 as a starter) team the rest of the way and 1 and done in the playoffs. Hill has proven hes effective in this offense and $3 mil isnt too much for an effective back up QB...esp when youre backing up someone as brittle as Stafford has shown he can be. Id dump avril and CWs salary before his.

 

[lionsFTW]

check again bro bro, he went 4-4 and won a playoff game.

look, our window to get this thing done is NOW! we just made the playoffs for the first time in over a decade and we're already struggling to keep our guys with the current cap situation. we have a stud QB who will command top dollar, a stud WR who will command top dollar and a stud DT who will command top dollar irregardless of what happens! we simply don't have the luxury to splurge on a #2 QB and we should be rolling the dice and trying to win a ship while we actually have the window to do so.

and again, I'm not arguing that Shaun Hill isn't worth the 3+ million to whoever signs him. he is one of the better #2's in the league. I'm arguing that its a bad idea FOR US to spend that much on a backup when we can actually win a ship if we put the right pieces in place.

 

[lionsFTW]

anyways all of this is moot as none of us are the GM and aren't making any real decision. Hill will be back and I'll just have to sit by idly sipping my beer and mumbling curse words while he holds his clip board and Eric "piece of shit" Wright gets toasted all year.

 

[lions2011]

seriously get it through your head....they are not turning the #2 spot over to a rookie in 2012 , the offense is to complex to grasp in a year and with Staffords injury history you need a reliable guy there.

Hills the guy and like stated a guy with his experience is gonna cost you 2.5 - 3 million.

if Stanton goes then they gotta make a decision on the 3 spot...a vet at minimum or a draft pick.

 

[mhughes0021]

anyways all of this is moot as none of us are the GM and aren't making any real decision. Hill will be back and I'll just have to sit by idly sipping my beer and mumbling curse words while he holds his clip board and Eric "piece of shit" Wright gets toasted all year.

Top FA CBs after tags:

Finnegan is competing with Brandon Carr for the top spot among free agent cornerbacks. Other free agent CBs include Terrell Thomas, Carlos Rogers, Rashean Mathis, Aaron Ross, Eric Wright, and Richard Marshall.

As it stands now....Wright is the only one we can afford lol.

 

[lionsFTW]

ummm, wtf do you think I just said before you posted????

 

[lions2011]

ummm, wtf do you think I just said before you posted????

you posted "we don't have theluxury to pay a #2 3 million"

when your starter has missed more games then he's played....a solid #2 isn't a "luxury"....it's a necessity.

 

[lionsFTW]

no its not! look, I respect the heck out of your football knowledge. you can at least put forth a logical argument and I have to respect that.

with that said I think your arguments about complexity and having to have a "proven" #2 are off. basically what your saying is our offense is too complex for a rookie but NE's isn't to complex for Hoyer? NO's for Daniels? Indy's for Painter?

of course they're too complex for all them dudes, but what all those organizations realize (and what I'm arguing here) is that if their top gun goes down all is lost anyways so fuck it. roll the dice, put the money to better use and try to win. not hedge your bet to try and get bounced in the first round.

edit: guess it's just a difference in philosophy and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

cheers!