Stopping the Syrian refugees is ISIS strategy.

[Michchamp]

Well, I'm not changing in my position, which is that we should not let these terror attacks stop us from taking in refugees. We should ramp up our vetting resources. They're saying it currently takes 2 years. I think we have 59 Syrian refugees in North Carolina right now.

I'm not proposing we open the floodgates, but I think our response to terrorism should be to try to to do better, not shut it down completely.

people also need to chill out about terrorism.

we're so sensitized to it, but of course, you're more likely to be killed by a lightning strike, or the police here for no reason than you are from a terrorist attack. and unfortunately our media hysteria contributes to this, and no one ever gets to go on ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. to point this out. Instead we get some member of the Cheney family on Meet the Press for some reason.

equating national security with "not a single attack from muslim extremists succeeding" is absurd, and really makes the term "national security" have no meaning whatsoever.

it's not a realistic threat to the United States or its people anymore than random spree killers, roid-raging cops, or lightning is, only because we allow it to be. and you know my theories why we do...

 

[sggatecl]

I'm not proposing we open the floodgates, but I think our response to terrorism should be to try to to do better, not shut it down completely.

It blows my mind that some people are under the assumption that 15,000 people are just going to board fifteen 747s and come on over. They have no idea how the immigration/refugee policies in this country work. Maybe their grandparents or great grandparents should have explained how it worked?

 

[deathroh]

And presumably it was even worse before ISIS, or they wouldn't have the local support they do. What other options do you have there? It's either radicalize and join ISIS, try fighting them on your own (and for the locals, that hasn't worked well), or flee & become a refugee.

No reason to presume it was worse before ISIS. As you stated, if you stay you really don't have a choice in whether or not to support them. If the militants from MSU that Gulo mentioned invaded Ann Arbor and forced everyone to either convert to Spartyism or die, would those that stayed and converted be a reflection on the state of Ann Arbor prior to that?

I wasn't aware that ISIS was gaining traction in Afghanistan as well (along with 8-9 other countries). Last night Frontline showed a reporter who had been granted access to interview and film ISIS members there. Some sickening stuff, including the brainwashing of grade school aged kids. Just think how easy that would be though, especially with them knowing nothing but war. Based on that report ISIS has a relatively small force compared to the Taliban and government, but they pay better than the Taliban and it sounds like the trend is for the more extreme members to flip sides.

I'm starting to get the feeling that a ground war is inevitable. There's really no other way to take back the land that ISIS has gained control of. Of course the US has been down this path in Iraq and Afghanistan...with all of the destruction ISIS is doing to Arab land and people, and now Europe, you'd hope that the US could sit this one out. Not counting on it though. But either way, I think Obama's "JV" comment could turn into his "Mission Accomplished".

 

[tinselwolverine]

Hmmm...never realized until writing the post above...what is it with Arabs and peninsulas?

I'm not a scientist but I think it has to do with the natural land formations in the region where Arabs live, just like it is with people who live in Michigan.

 

[Spartanmack]

We should put all Spartan alumni in internment camps too. I know they haven't done anything yet, but do we really need to wait for one to be involved in a terrorist attack before you take extra precautions when handling hundreds of thousands of alumni from classes where we know extreme ideas are discussed on a large scale and have training/recruiting elements in the state with the largest Arab population outside of the Arabian Peninsula?

This is michturd stupid and about as far off the mark from what I've said as you can get. Odd coming from such a literalist who likes to get into pedantic arguments about what was said and meant.

 

[TheVictors]

It's sort of funny how much ire this Syrian refugee situation is causing when you consider how people reacted to the US Citizen refugees of Katrina 10yrs ago. States were worried about all these 'criminals' from New Orleans flooding into their towns..

And those were US Citizens from an impoverished and demolished city that most would never have chosen to leave were it not for Katrina.

 

[Spartanmack]

Some people will argue till the cows come home about not being racist, but you just gotta call it like you see it.

Funny, like that Fucker Peter King in NYC, on record never opposing Irish immigration w/out restrictions, even at the height of the NRA's bombing campaigns, but finding all sorts of reasons to oppose the other kind of immigrants...

False equivalence much? How many massive waves of Irish "refugees" have there been in the US since 1993. And remind me again of the IRA's (I assume that's what you meant, or were you talking about the waves of violent extremist vikings from the Norwegian Republican Army we allowed into the country without concern for our own safety) overt threats to strike in the United States or at US interests abroad. Oh never mind, he's a Republican, so he's a racist hypocrite.

 

[Spartanmack]

Some people will argue till the cows come home about not being racist, but you just gotta call it like you see it.

Yep. Like you see it:

Michturd:
- regularly makes disparaging comments about gays and religious people
- starts threads about his hatred of religious people
- says all Chaldeans are party store owners and arabic people don't like water
- uses hate speech like fag and retard when someone disagrees with him
- support racist social policies like affirmative action and policies that have a negative impact, disproportionately on minorities, like welfare and the minimum wage.

Call it like you see it. You're the biggest bigot on the board. And you're a moron.

 

[TheVictors]

I'm fine with banning Irish immigrants and while we're at it, can we expunge all the Fighting Irish as well?

bunch of lousy drunks

 

[Spartanmack]

I didn't know that.

I'll back off the absolute language.

They were the children of asylum seekers, not refugees which, according to the Huffington Post is a massive distinction. If you have been designated a refugee by the UN and not just seeking asylum from persecution on your own, there is zero evidence and therefore no reason to believe you can be radical or radicalized. Feel free to crank the extreme rhetoric back up to eleven!

 

[tinselwolverine]

Funny, like that Fucker Peter King in NYC, on record never opposing Irish immigration w/out restrictions, even at the height of the NRA's bombing campaigns...

Except the time Vice President Cheney shot is buddy I'm not aware of direct violent assault perpetrated by the NRA, bombings or otherwise.

I thought their primary tactics were lots of money and very powerful and organized lobbying efforts.

I also thought of their primary thing was second amendment rights; I never heard that they had any particular concern about Irish immigration or any lack there of.

 

[Spartanmack]

Except the time Vice President Cheney shot is buddy I'm not aware of direct violent assault perpetrated by the NRA, bombings or otherwise.

I thought their primary tactics were lots of money and very powerful and organized lobbying efforts.

I also thought of their primary thing was second amendment rights; I never heard that they had any particular concern about Irish immigration or any lack there of.

fantastic. I had to steal it for one of my famous edits...

 

[Gulo Blue]

This is michturd stupid and about as far off the mark from what I've said as you can get. Odd coming from such a literalist who likes to get into pedantic arguments about what was said and meant.

Good argument. Very persuasive point.

 

[Gulo Blue]

They were the children of asylum seekers, not refugees which, according to the Huffington Post is a massive distinction. If you haven't been designated a refugee by the UN and instead are only seeking asylum from persecution on your own, there is zero evidence and therefore no reason to believe you can be radical or radicalized. Feel free to crank the extreme rhetoric back up to eleven!

...or, I could go the other way I suppose, and if I can find one example of a Spartan terrorist, it's back to the internment camps for you.

 

[Spartanmack]

Good argument. Very persuasive point.

The point was already made - and missed. I have no interest in another discussion that devolves into an argument about something I didn't say or worse, how what I said wasn't what I meant and instead I meant what you interpreted. It's a waste of time.

 

[Spartanmack]

...or, I could go the other way I suppose, and if I can find one example of a Spartan terrorist, it's back to the internment camps for you.

you've gone from Michturd apologist/defender to a smarter version of him. Have fun.

Edit: by "smarter" I didn't mean to imply that Michturd is smart. I shouldn't have to clarify that, but I am just to avoid another 3 page back and forth about whether or not I said that idiot is smart.

 

[Michchamp]

No reason to presume it was worse before ISIS.

True, but it was pretty damn bad. Bad enough that some people are actually enlisting in ISIS' armies and living in its territories.

As you stated, if you stay you really don't have a choice in whether or not to support them. If the militants from MSU that Gulo mentioned invaded Ann Arbor and forced everyone to either convert to Spartyism or die, would those that stayed and converted be a reflection on the state of Ann Arbor prior to that?

I wasn't aware that ISIS was gaining traction in Afghanistan as well (along with 8-9 other countries). Last night Frontline showed a reporter who had been granted access to interview and film ISIS members there. Some sickening stuff, including the brainwashing of grade school aged kids. Just think how easy that would be though, especially with them knowing nothing but war. Based on that report ISIS has a relatively small force compared to the Taliban and government, but they pay better than the Taliban and it sounds like the trend is for the more extreme members to flip sides.

I'm starting to get the feeling that a ground war is inevitable. There's really no other way to take back the land that ISIS has gained control of. Of course the US has been down this path in Iraq and Afghanistan...with all of the destruction ISIS is doing to Arab land and people, and now Europe, you'd hope that the US could sit this one out. Not counting on it though. But either way, I think Obama's "JV" comment could turn into his "Mission Accomplished".

After seeing how we conducted ourselves in Afghanistan and Iraq, I have no reason to believe that ground war against ISIS will be successful; sure we will probably kill a lot of them, but the rest of them will just resume guerrilla tactics, and we'll end up making the region WORSE all over again, although it's difficult to see how it could get much worse. maybe the Gates of Hell will open up or something.

I can't even imagine how we would go about this. Russia bombing anti-Assad groups in Syria that we armed. We're bombing a number of groups, including ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Turkey is bombing anything that would benefit the Kurds in Syria and Iraq. Israel occasionally bombs Assad in Syria. France is now bombing ISIS in Syria. Saudi Arabia is bombing groups around its periphery, especially Yemen. Afghanistan is still an unstable mess, with the Taliban STILL controlling parts of the country, and now ISIS as you mention. Yes, the Taliban is still around despite us bombing the shit out of them and occupying Afghanistan for FOURTEEN YEARS NOW.

What a fucking mess. I think the only strategy that makes sense is *carefully* arming anyone we can be sure, or close to sure is not as bad as ISIS, maybe occasionally bombing ISIS military assets we're sure of (But we'll probably screw that up too). We should more or less sit this out and try to allow some leadership we can deal with fill the void there, even if it's another Saddam Hussein, who truth be told, was obviously not that bad... as we can say with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Michchamp]

Except the time Vice President Cheney shot is buddy I'm not aware of direct violent assault perpetrated by the NRA, bombings or otherwise.

I thought their primary tactics were lots of money and very powerful and organized lobbying efforts.

I also thought of their primary thing was second amendment rights; I never heard that they had any particular concern about Irish immigration or any lack there of.

whoops! I mean these guys:

They're okay; it's the OTHER guys who wear balaclavas and run around with RPGs and AK-47s who are a threat to America. These guys would only bomb British things in America, not Americans. and its easy to tell the two apart.

 

[deathroh]

True, but it was pretty damn bad. Bad enough that some people are actually enlisting in ISIS' armies and living in its territories.



After seeing how we conducted ourselves in Afghanistan and Iraq, I have no reason to believe that ground war against ISIS will be successful; sure we will probably kill a lot of them, but the rest of them will just resume guerrilla tactics, and we'll end up making the region WORSE all over again, although it's difficult to see how it could get much worse. maybe the Gates of Hell will open up or something.

I can't even imagine how we would go about this. Russia bombing anti-Assad groups in Syria that we armed. We're bombing a number of groups, including ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Turkey is bombing anything that would benefit the Kurds in Syria and Iraq. Israel occasionally bombs Assad in Syria. France is now bombing ISIS in Syria. Saudi Arabia is bombing groups around its periphery, especially Yemen. Afghanistan is still an unstable mess, with the Taliban STILL controlling parts of the country, and now ISIS as you mention. Yes, the Taliban is still around despite us bombing the shit out of them and occupying Afghanistan for FOURTEEN YEARS NOW.

What a fucking mess. I think the only strategy that makes sense is *carefully* arming anyone we can be sure, or close to sure is not as bad as ISIS, maybe occasionally bombing ISIS military assets we're sure of (But we'll probably screw that up too). We should more or less sit this out and try to allow some leadership we can deal with fill the void there, even if it's another Saddam Hussein, who truth be told, was obviously not that bad... as we can say with the benefit of hindsight.

Sounds like the Taliban is gaining strength in Pakistan especially. The Pakistani army drove them out of Waziristan to a degree and now they're operating in the slums of their most populous city.

I know, it is a complete mess, but if they continue to strike I see us getting drawn in. Especially if something happens in the US and ESPECIALLY if a jackass gets elected next year.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The point was already made - and missed. I have no interest in another discussion that devolves into an argument about something I didn't say or worse, how what I said wasn't what I meant and instead I meant what you interpreted. It's a waste of time.

What in the world are you talking about? You're either full of crap or mistaking me for someone else.