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Tigers 2017 Season Debacle, trades, releases and fired thread

tomdalton22 said:
The White Sox just did it with Quintana. If you read the article, Fulmer will be arb eligible in 2019 which will drive his price up fast. This re-build is going to take longer than most because the farm system is the worst in MLB. The first step in a re-build is filling the farm with high end prospects. Some will pan out and some won't but you need that talent in the minor leagues. If they turn it around with some young talent and some FA acquisitions they can then take some of that young talent and use it for trades. My guess is Fulmer could get a haul even better than Quintana. If that is the case I really think the Tigers should consider it. I just read Pineda is having TJ surgery. The Yankees might be the team that goes for it.
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I will agree that Fulmer would generate more in a trade than Quintana. I doubt seriously if that happened, they would be signing any FAs worth trading. They would be signing "has beens" or "never was" just to fill out the roster.
 
tomdalton22 said:
The White Sox just did it with Quintana. If you read the article, Fulmer will be arb eligible in 2019 which will drive his price up fast. This re-build is going to take longer than most because the farm system is the worst in MLB. The first step in a re-build is filling the farm with high end prospects. Some will pan out and some won't but you need that talent in the minor leagues. If they turn it around with some young talent and some FA acquisitions they can then take some of that young talent and use it for trades. My guess is Fulmer could get a haul even better than Quintana. If that is the case I really think the Tigers should consider it. I just read Pineda is having TJ surgery. The Yankees might be the team that goes for it.
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For one, Quintana is 28 and not 24. Quintana becomes a free agent in 2019, Fulmer does in 2023. It's about team control. 4 years younger and 4 more years of team control is huge.
 
Mitchrapp said:
For one, Quintana is 28 and not 24. Quintana becomes a free agent in 2019, Fulmer does in 2023. It's about team control. 4 years younger and 4 more years of team control is huge.
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Quintana is on a fixed contract...$8.8M next year and $10.5 in 2019 & 2020. That is a very reasonable contract. As soon as Fulmer hits his arb years he will most likely blow by those numbers. Now, if you think that Fulmer is that much more valuable then he should get a better return.
 
tomdalton22 said:
Quintana is on a fixed contract...$8.8M next year and $10.5 in 2019 & 2020. That is a very reasonable contract. As soon as Fulmer hits his arb years he will most likely blow by those numbers. Now, if you think that Fulmer is that much more valuable then he should get a better return.
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A better return? It could be a better return of crap.. Trading for prospects are just a crap shoot.. For a vet you take a chance but not for a 24 year old. As far as money, Fulmer will be reasonable for some time. You make it sound like 1st time arb eligible are getting long contracts for 15m a year. He's not Trout.
 
tomdalton22 said:
Quintana is on a fixed contract...$8.8M next year and $10.5 in 2019 & 2020. That is a very reasonable contract. As soon as Fulmer hits his arb years he will most likely blow by those numbers. Now, if you think that Fulmer is that much more valuable then he should get a better return.
Click to expand...

2020 option increases to $14M with Cy Young award in 2014-19 or $13M with second- or third-place finish in Cy Young vote in 2014-19

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/arbitration-records-starting-pitchers-2.html

No way Fulmer's 2019 and 2020 (1st two arb years) will he make more than $17-18 Mil. Quintana is guaranteed to make $21 Mil, with a possibility as much as $24.5 Mil
 
Rebbiv said:
2020 option increases to $14M with Cy Young award in 2014-19 or $13M with second- or third-place finish in Cy Young vote in 2014-19

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/arbitration-records-starting-pitchers-2.html

No way Fulmer's 2019 and 2020 (1st two arb years) will he make more than $17-18 Mil. Quintana is guaranteed to make $21 Mil, with a possibility as much as $24.5 Mil
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perhaps...but those incentives are a long shot. If he is to make less than Quintana he should fetch even a better return...right?
 
Mitchrapp said:
A better return? It could be a better return of crap.. Trading for prospects are just a crap shoot.. For a vet you take a chance but not for a 24 year old. As far as money, Fulmer will be reasonable for some time. You make it sound like 1st time arb eligible are getting long contracts for 15m a year. He's not Trout.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand the value of a great farm system and how much it hurts when you have a shitty one.
 
tomdalton22 said:
perhaps...but those incentives are a long shot. If he is to make less than Quintana he should fetch even a better return...right?
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Certainly. But that is the point. Fulmer doesn't make any money and he won't be cost prohibitive for a couple of years at least.

You cannot just scrap everyone. Baseball is a business, first and foremost. You are still going to have to try to win games and not completely alienate your fan base. We can all agree that DET lacks payroll flexibility. Dealing a player like Fulmer isn't addressing the payroll. Dealing Avila is not addressing the payroll. Dealing JD or Kinsler adds flexibility, but both of them should have been dealt in the off season. And no one appears to want an aging 2B having a down year.

Without dealing some salary, DET is going to pay a steep luxury tax this year. They are paying +$25 Mil to 4 players no longer on the team (they are still liable for that money). They are estimated to be over $20 Mil above. Dealing JD ($11.75 Mil) will only get them half way. With that $25 Mil, JD's $11.75, Avila's $2 Mil and Kinsler/Sanchez options not being picked up, they could have $48.75 Mil less than this year (on paper and without arbitrations). That still puts them in the neighborhood of $175 Mil salary.

JD would have netted far more had he been dealt during the off season. Primarily, because a new team CANNOT offer him a qualifying offer. Pending Free Agents must be with their team a full year before Free Agency in order to get one. So, any team trading for JD is not going to give up the farm. Verlander is not going to get the farm. Nor Kinsler, nor Avila, nor Upton, etc, etc. Yes, basically, Fulmer is about the only asset DET has that will garner any top level prospects without question. But I don't see the logic.
 
Rebbiv said:
Certainly. But that is the point. Fulmer doesn't make any money and he won't be cost prohibitive for a couple of years at least.

Yes, basically, Fulmer is about the only asset DET has that will garner any top level prospects without question. But I don't see the logic.
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Rebbiv said:
Rebuilds generally take 5-7 years (aka NYY, CHC, etc) Fulmer fetches more in a trade and would be problematic to retain into his Arbitration/Free Agent years.
Click to expand...


So where do you stand?
 
Last edited:
tomdalton22 said:
So where do you stand?
Click to expand...

We have 2 years or so before Fulmer would be making any sort of money. Barring injuries or any unforeseen issues, he would probably increase in value. In the meantime, he can put fans in the seats and veiwers to the TV.

And yes, right now, he IS the only Tiger that can fetch anything on quantity and quality. No one wants Castellanos. No one wants McCann. No one wants Norris. No one wants Boyd. No one wants Iglesias. Heck, no one wants JaCoby Jones. And when I mean wants. I mean trading anything of value.
 
Rebbiv said:
We have 2 years or so before Fulmer would be making any sort of money. Barring injuries or any unforeseen issues, he would probably increase in value. In the meantime, he can put fans in the seats and veiwers to the TV.

And yes, right now, he IS the only Tiger that can fetch anything on quantity and quality. No one wants Castellanos. No one wants McCann. No one wants Norris. No one wants Boyd. No one wants Iglesias. Heck, no one wants JaCoby Jones. And when I mean wants. I mean trading anything of value.
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I understand where you are coming from but I think if someone wows them with an offer I think you have to take it. Keeping JV and Miggy are supposed to be keeping the fans coming and watching.
 
tomdalton22 said:
I don't think you understand the value of a great farm system and how much it hurts when you have a shitty one.
Click to expand...

I do but I also understand prospects are just that, prospects. And I don't believe we'd get a good deal.. It's not hard to understand Miami traded a monster and got 2 pieces of shit.
 
tomdalton22 said:
The White Sox just did it with Quintana. If you read the article, Fulmer will be arb eligible in 2019 which will drive his price up fast. This re-build is going to take longer than most because the farm system is the worst in MLB. The first step in a re-build is filling the farm with high end prospects. Some will pan out and some won't but you need that talent in the minor leagues. If they turn it around with some young talent and some FA acquisitions they can then take some of that young talent and use it for trades. My guess is Fulmer could get a haul even better than Quintana. If that is the case I really think the Tigers should consider it. I just read Pineda is having TJ surgery. The Yankees might be the team that goes for it.
Click to expand...

You should never be able to post here again after this dribble ....then again it is you lol . How can anyone be so clueless
 
You think the Marlins are happy with their "huge return " for Miggy ? Dolt , you dont trade Fulmer who is controlled with a very team friendly contract for some prospects . You think if we got what the Sox got for Quintana we would be happy ?
 
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