Tigers 2017 Season Debacle, trades, releases and fired thread

[kmd47]

I'd probably never watch a Tigers game again if we got those guys the Sox did for Quintana for Fulmer.... He should be untouchable but with AA running the show anything is possible which is scary

 

[kalinecountry]

Athletics trade Sean Doolittle, Ryan Madson to Nationals for Blake Treinen, two prospects.
Nationals might not need Justin Wilson now.

 

[tigermud]

It's starting to look more and more like the tigers will end up with nothing, although odds still seem high JD gets moved.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/2017/07/16/trade-talk-heats-tigers-jd-martinez/103754794/

 

[Rebbiv]

It's starting to look more and more like the tigers will end up with nothing, although odds still seem high JD gets moved.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/2017/07/16/trade-talk-heats-tigers-jd-martinez/103754794/

If they trade no one or just JD, this would be an epic fail. To lose and still have to pay luxury tax is just unfathomable.

 

[gotime909]

If they trade no one or just JD, this would be an epic fail. To lose and still have to pay luxury tax is just unfathomable.

Agreed, they really need to start being a little more aggressive with talks while there are still teams in need. Every day that goes by more holes are filled and it gets less likely to get anything of value.

 

[SpartyNash]

If they trade no one or just JD, this would be an epic fail. To lose and still have to pay luxury tax is just unfathomable.

I'll continue rooting for them to lose in order to force the sell, no matter how much it seems like this boneheaded organization refuses to do so. I'm concerned they'll reel off a few wins somehow and stand pat, which as you said is asinine. It would set this franchise back years.

 

[kalinecountry]

http://motorcitybengals.com/2017/07/16/detroit-tigers-houston-astros-trade-fits/
Detroit Tigers: Houston Astros trade fits and hypothetical targets.
MCBTB

http://detroitsportsnation.com/detr...e/j-d-martinez-traded-colorado-rockies/94362/
Could J.D. Martinez be traded to the Colorado Rockies?
DSN

 

[Mitchrapp]

http://motorcitybengals.com/2017/07/16/detroit-tigers-houston-astros-trade-fits/
Detroit Tigers: Houston Astros trade fits and hypothetical targets.
MCBTB

http://detroitsportsnation.com/detr...e/j-d-martinez-traded-colorado-rockies/94362/
Could J.D. Martinez be traded to the Colorado Rockies?
DSN

JD in Colorado, he'd just smash.

 

[Rebbiv]

http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-oln...layers-who-will-be-traded-before-the-deadline

Food for thought. DET could trade all three, J.D. Martinez, J. Wilson and A. Avila and still have to pay a luxury tax.

 

[tomdalton22]

http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-oln...layers-who-will-be-traded-before-the-deadline

Food for thought. DET could trade all three, J.D. Martinez, J. Wilson and A. Avila and still have to pay a luxury tax.

for 2017 or 2018?

 

[Rebbiv]

for 2017 or 2018?

2017. Unless they do something crazy, they are not in jeopardy of paying luxury tax in 2018. Approximately $39.25 Mil comes off the books after this year without considering Sanchez and Kinsler's options. Another $11 Mil for Sanchez, $5 Mil for Kinsler. That could be $55.25 Mil below 2017 for anyone no longer with the team or potential FAs.

 

[tomdalton22]

2017. Unless they do something crazy, they are not in jeopardy of paying luxury tax in 2018. Approximately $39.25 Mil comes off the books after this year without considering Sanchez and Kinsler's options. Another $11 Mil for Sanchez, $5 Mil for Kinsler. That could be $55.25 Mil below 2017 for anyone no longer with the team or potential FAs.

thanks

 

[Rebbiv]

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2017/7...roit-tigers-michael-fulmer-not-getting-traded

As our own Kurt Mensching pointed out in his Monday Detroit News column, “[The Tigers] would be wise to hang up the phone on any GM seeking Fulmer. He should be considered the new building block for this organization.”

 

[tomdalton22]

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2017/7...roit-tigers-michael-fulmer-not-getting-traded

As our own Kurt Mensching pointed out in his Monday Detroit News column, ?[The Tigers] would be wise to hang up the phone on any GM seeking Fulmer. He should be considered the new building block for this organization.?

On MLB Network?s High Heat, Tigers general manager Al Avila cleared the air about the Fulmer trade rumors, saying that in spite of teams showing interest in Fulmer, the ?probability of [a trade] is probably zero.?

 

[dale675]

Tigers willing to eat some cash to deal JV

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/justin-verlander-trade-rumors-tigers-include-cash.html

 

[lonesometiger]

Miami Marlins might be shopping Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna, or Christian Yelich any of these might make J D less attractive. Rumor has Marlins could be for sale. Cardinals could be in the market for one those three.

 

[Rebbiv]

Miami Marlins might be shopping Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna, or Christian Yelich any of these might make J D less attractive. Rumor has Marlins could be for sale. Cardinals could be in the market for one those three.

There is no way Stanton's bloated contract (signed thru 2028) makes him more appealing than JD.

Ozuna has 2 more arbitration years, which means the Marlins would be idiots to deal him. Yelich has a very cost controllable contract (4 more years at $43 Mil). It makes no sense to trade a low-cost controlled players in season.

The Miami Marlins, who not only are up for sale, but open for business, are hoping to dump money by moving Prado and second baseman Dee Gordon, who?s still owed $51 million through 2021.

Sure, Giancarlo Stanton and the $295 million left in his contract is available, too, but they haven?t received a single call of interest. Stanton would be willing to waive his no-trade clause to return home to California. Yet, for the Dodgers or San Francisco Giants to acquire him, he?d likely have to agree to opt out of his contract in 2020. Sorry, that?s not happening.

The Marlins are drawing the most attention with veteran reliever David Phelps, with the New York Yankees, Red Sox, Brewers, Cubs, Colorado Rockies and Texas Rangers showing the most interest.
And the Toronto Blue Jays and Philadelphia Phillies have engaged in preliminary trade talks for Gordon.

Prediction: Phelps goes to the Red Sox, Gordon goes to Philadelphia, and outfielders Christian Yelich and Marcell Ozuna are traded this winter.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

I just find the way this is being handled is a bad look. I get it's a business but it's a slap in the face of guys who have bled Tiger blue for a long time. Avila sucks.

 

[tomdalton22]

ESPN article: Players who should be traded but won't move at the deadline.


http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-oln...hould-be-traded-but-wont-move-at-the-deadline

Behind closed doors, Detroit’s leadership knows what its priorities are at this moment. Is it bolstering the farm system? Is it reducing payroll? Well, Fulmer could be used to accomplish both in a trade to one of the many teams looking for someone like him -- the Atlanta Braves, the New York Yankees, the Houston Astros, the Chicago Cubs, the Milwaukee Brewers and the Cleveland Indians. Fulmer would be so perfect for a number of teams -- as a very young, controllable starter good enough to front a rotation -- that the Tigers could insist that any Fulmer deal include one of their more expensive veterans whom they could not otherwise move -- such as outfielder Justin Upton or pitcher Jordan Zimmermann. The Braves used Craig Kimbrel in this manner, sending him to San Diego with the condition that Melvin Upton Jr. be included in the deal. And the Tigers could get decent prospects in return.

But Chris Ilitch, who has taken over from his late father to lead the Tigers, has to know this as a fledgling owner: Any trade that includes Fulmer is going to be really, really tough to sell to a fan base that has grown accustomed to success through an outsized payroll. Mike Ilitch did not follow a classic baseball business model in running the Tigers, essentially spending out of his pocket in an effort to win, and there will probably be backlash following any move toward efficiency.

 

[Rebbiv]

ESPN article: Players who should be traded but won't move at the deadline.


http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-oln...hould-be-traded-but-wont-move-at-the-deadline

Behind closed doors, Detroit?s leadership knows what its priorities are at this moment. Is it bolstering the farm system? Is it reducing payroll? Well, Fulmer could be used to accomplish both in a trade to one of the many teams looking for someone like him -- the Atlanta Braves, the New York Yankees, the Houston Astros, the Chicago Cubs, the Milwaukee Brewers and the Cleveland Indians. Fulmer would be so perfect for a number of teams -- as a very young, controllable starter good enough to front a rotation -- that the Tigers could insist that any Fulmer deal include one of their more expensive veterans whom they could not otherwise move -- such as outfielder Justin Upton or pitcher Jordan Zimmermann. The Braves used Craig Kimbrel in this manner, sending him to San Diego with the condition that Melvin Upton Jr. be included in the deal. And the Tigers could get decent prospects in return.

But Chris Ilitch, who has taken over from his late father to lead the Tigers, has to know this as a fledgling owner: Any trade that includes Fulmer is going to be really, really tough to sell to a fan base that has grown accustomed to success through an outsized payroll. Mike Ilitch did not follow a classic baseball business model in running the Tigers, essentially spending out of his pocket in an effort to win, and there will probably be backlash following any move toward efficiency.

Let's discuss Buster Olney's suggestion.

1. His premise is that DET can do what ATL did with Kimbrel and BJ (Melvin) Upton. He does realize that ATL got nothing of value in return, right? And that Kimbrel was used by SDP for actual talent from the Red Sox. Yes, they escaped Upton's salary. But that move did nothing as to acquiring young, cost controlled talent.

2. Justin Upton. Can opt out of his contract at the end of this year. Will probably do so if DET goes into rebuild mode and he continues to have a decent season. Any team acquiring him, would want guarantees that he wouldn't opt out on them as well, or maybe NOT. Thus, you are trading Fulmer for what? Upton has 20 teams he can block the deal to. Anyone have that list?

3. Jordan Zimmermann. Has full trade protection 2016-2018. Even as a throw in, he negates any value Fulmer has on his own.

It would be idiotic to do what Olney suggests. There are other ways of shedding high payroll guys without mortgaging the future.