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Tigers and MLB 2019-2020 Free Agents Rule 5 Offseason Calendar Winter Meetings

turok said:
Former Tigers uber-prospect Devon Travis is available, who was traded to the BJs for a couple of years of Anthony Gose.
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Tim Lincecum, who Ked an avg of 2 Tigers per IP in limited action in the '12 WS is also a FA...but hasn't pitched in MLB since '16. I used to think that he would have a career mirroring Verlander's, but instead he just fell off a cliff. Consecutive CYs '08-'09, 2 no-hitters, 6 seasons avg 200+ Ks, yet after 9 seasons as a SFG, he was washed up.


Too bad that he ain't a lefty, otherwise he likely would be on his 5th or 6th ballclub, ala Dontrelle Willis, who despite how shitty that he was in Detroit's org, still got signed by ARI, CIN, BAL, LAA, and SF afterward. As bad as DD giving Nate Robertson a 3 year extension after his ERA jumped to nearly 5.00 in '07, only to climb by another earned run '08-'09 as a repayment...doing likewise for Willis before making a start as a Tiger was even worse. If I was the Tigers' manager, "DTrain" would have been made to PH and DH often, just to recoup some of the MM$$ he was being paid to abjectly suck on the mound. Dude had a lefty stick w/some power while an NL Marlin.
 
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turok said:
Tim Lincecum, who Ked an avg of 2 Tigers per IP in limited action in the '12 WS is also a FA...but hasn't pitched in MLB since '16. I used to think that he would have a career mirroring Verlander's, but instead he just fell off a cliff. Consecutive CYs '08-'09, 2 no-hitters, 6 seasons avg 200+ Ks, yet after 9 seasons as a SFG, he was washed up.
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It did't surprise me that he flamed out. He was about 5'10 and 160 lbs soaking wet, with violent pitching mechanics.
 
tomdalton22 said:
It did't surprise me that he flamed out. He was about 5'10 and 160 lbs soaking wet, with violent pitching mechanics.
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Timmy was an early burnout...his high for CGs was 4 in a season, unlike SPs his HT/WT in the 40s-70s who pitched CGs in at least half of their starts. Since the 80s, SPs rarely throw over 100 pitches, unless its in a SHO, no-no or PG.
 
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turok said:
Timmy was an early burnout...his high for CGs was 4 in a season, unlike SPs his HT/WT in the 40s-70s who pitched CGs in at least half of their starts. Since the 80s, SPs rarely throw over 100 pitches, unless its in a SHO, no-no or PG.
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I think that pitchers today put more wear and tear on their arms due to them going all out more often. The average fastball today is around 93MPH. About 20 years ago it was only about 88. Not sure what it was 40 years ago but my guess is it was probably 83-85MPH
 
Uh-huh...soo pitchers such as Goose Gossage, Lefty Grove, Schoolboy Rowe, Frank Tanana, Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, JR Richard, Vida Blue, Sam McDowell, Satchel Paige, Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Blue Moon Odom..ect...couldn't touch 90+?


The "radar gun" wasn't invented until 1974, so its unfair to post that teams' pitching averaged 85 mph or less 40 years ago.


Not buying it.


Steve Dalkowski




  1. Dalkowski never actually made it to the majors because of serious control issues (1,354 walks in 995 minor league innings, plus 1,396 strikeouts), but those who actually faced him say he?s the fastest pitcher ever.

  2. Ted Williams once took a spring training pitch from the 5?8? Dalkowski and reportedly never saw it. An official reading is unavailable because Dalkowski pitched in the 1950s and 1960s, but some have estimated his fastball could reach 105 mph.
    His greatest accomplishment is probably striking out 21 batters in a minor league game and walking 21 batters in another.
 
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Candelario is a BUST.

Some glove, no stick...would make Aurelio Rodriguez look like he was a Silver Slugger candidate.

But Lugo ain't exactly killing it @ the plate himself.

May need to draft with a high pick in mind who rates 50-60 hitting/power and can play 3rd. Or groom Riley Greene to play the position.

Stewie has been AWOL @ the dish so far in ST as well...he might play himself off of the 26 man plane ride north, if he doesn't pick it up soon.

24 year old ex-Brewer Troy Stokes jr. has been one of the Tigers better hitters so far...but no homers and no walks.
 
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turok said:
Uh-huh...soo pitchers such as Goose Gossage, Lefty Grove, Schoolboy Rowe, Frank Tanana, Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, JR Richard, Vida Blue, Sam McDowell, Satchel Paige, Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Blue Moon Odom..ect...couldn't touch 90+?


The "radar gun" wasn't invented until 1974, so its unfair to post that teams' pitching averaged 85 mph or less 40 years ago.


Not buying it.

[/LIST]
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Did I say there weren't some pitchers that couldn't touch 90+?
 
turok said:
Uh-huh...soo pitchers such as Goose Gossage, Lefty Grove, Schoolboy Rowe, Frank Tanana, Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, JR Richard, Vida Blue, Sam McDowell, Satchel Paige, Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Blue Moon Odom..ect...couldn't touch 90+?


The "radar gun" wasn't invented until 1974, so its unfair to post that teams' pitching averaged 85 mph or less 40 years ago.


Not buying it.


Steve Dalkowski




  1. Dalkowski never actually made it to the majors because of serious control issues (1,354 walks in 995 minor league innings, plus 1,396 strikeouts), but those who actually faced him say he?s the fastest pitcher ever.

  2. Ted Williams once took a spring training pitch from the 5?8? Dalkowski and reportedly never saw it. An official reading is unavailable because Dalkowski pitched in the 1950s and 1960s, but some have estimated his fastball could reach 105 mph.
    His greatest accomplishment is probably striking out 21 batters in a minor league game and walking 21 batters in another.
Click to expand...

Frank Tanana was a hard thrower and then got hurt but still had a nice career.
 
Trailing 4-2 in the bottom 7th, with only 3 hits, the Tigers' subs scored 8 unanswered runs vs the yankees, including a grand slam by Kreidler and 2 RS/1 RBI by Greene to erase the 2 run deficit in the 7th and 8th and win @ Joker Marchant Stadium in Lakeland 10-4 this afternoon. Tigers evened their ST record @ home to 2-2 and overall are 4-4 so far in the Grapefruit League.
 
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tomdalton22 said:
Did I say there weren't some pitchers that couldn't touch 90+?
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Most of MLB team's #1s and all aces could pitch in the low-mid 90s or higher, some/many #2s low 90s and in the advent of the "closer" who could pitch 90+ as well. So the remaining 2/3-4 or 2/3-5 would have to pitch in the upper 70s @ best to lower overall to 85 and especially 83 40 years ago or more.
 
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turok said:
Most of MLB team's #1s and all aces could pitch in the low-mid 90s or higher, some/many #2s low 90s and in the advent of the "closer" who could pitch 90+ as well. So the remaining 2/3-4 or 2/3-5 would have to pitch in the upper 70s @ best to lower overall to 85 and especially 83 40 years ago or more.
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It's not just what they can do but what they actually do. Like I said, pitchers seem to go all out more now than they did in the past. It seems like that every fastball thrown is max effort now compared to in the past they seemed to change speeds more often...not giving 100% effort which could impact the average.

My guess of 85-83 MPH 40 years ago was just based on what the difference was between 2000 - 2020 which was about 88 to 93 (5 MPH increase)
 
tomdalton22 said:
It's not just what they can do but what they actually do. Like I said, pitchers seem to go all out more now than they did in the past. It seems like that every fastball thrown is max effort now compared to in the past they seemed to change speeds more often...not giving 100% effort which could impact the average.

My guess of 85-83 MPH 40 years ago was just based on what the difference was between 2000 - 2020 which was about 88 to 93 (5 MPH increase)
Click to expand...

Maybe its not only or just the speed of the pitches being thrown which are resulting in injuries, but the effort expended and stresses put on their arms in the increasingly popular method of disguising different types of pitches by using the same arm-slot and/or release point, in order to try to fool batters.
 
Travis Demeritte hit 2 homers and drove in a team high 5 rbis and helping the Tigers overcome a 6 run deficit in the bottom 9th to end today's game vs redsox in a tie, 11-11. C Jake Rogers ret from a back injury, and hit a monster 2 run homer to left in the 7th. Tarik Skubal pitched 2 scoreless innings of relief of SP Norris, striking out 3 and allowing a BB/WP.

https://twitter.com/tigers/status/1234648578854879233
 
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