Tim Lincecum

[lonesometiger]

this trade and the players you want to give up is some kind of wishful thinking of a fantasy that will never come true

To be quite honest it would take 4 to 5 players and include Turner or Oliver, as well. It would be way too much, IMO. But the fact the Giants are thinking is something to think about.
One other thing that has been brought out in other threads and boards is the trading of Gardner, of the Yanks. Some of the Tigers posters want him. So the idea of a OF for a Pitcher is there as well and then no Gardner for the Tigers.
I for one do not think Gardner is a good fit for the Tigers. But to each his own.

 

[Thumb]

With that said no thanks.. Only pitcher I want out of the NL is Kershaw and yes, we don't have jack that's equal value to him..

Halliday, Lee or Hamels aren't good enough to pitch for the Tigers? Not Matt Cain, Matt Garza or Ian Kennedy?

The player I'd love to have is Madison Bumgarner. Not over Kershaw, but he's not going anywhere.

Yea, I didn't understand why Kershaw only, but people tend to look only at the latest thing, and that's Kershaw.

Forget what Lincecum's done over the last 4 seasons, it's all about the guy this year.

The National league probably has more top tier type pitchers than the AL.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

It'd be tough for us to match up on a trade for Lincecum. It'd probably take at least three of Turner, Jackson, Porcello, Boesch, Perry and Schlereth. You'd create too many holes, IMHO. Beyond that, I really don't see him going anywhere.

 

[Mitchrapp]

It'd be tough for us to match up on a trade for Lincecum. It'd probably take at least three of Turner, Jackson, Porcello, Boesch, Perry and Schlereth. You'd create too many holes, IMHO. Beyond that, I really don't see him going anywhere.

3 of that? Hell they can have Perry, Schereth and Jackson and call it a day.

 

[byco42]

It'd be tough for us to match up on a trade for Lincecum. It'd probably take at least three of Turner, Jackson, Porcello, Boesch, Perry and Schlereth. You'd create too many holes, IMHO. Beyond that, I really don't see him going anywhere.

The Giants would not trade Lincecum for a prospect, a 9 hitter who leads off, a 4th starter, a player without even a starter's WAR and two players who will not be Tigers next season.

 

[tigers99888]

Halliday, Lee or Hamels aren't good enough to pitch for the Tigers? Not Matt Cain, Matt Garza or Ian Kennedy?

The player I'd love to have is Madison Bumgarner. Not over Kershaw, but he's not going anywhere.

Yea, I didn't understand why Kershaw only, but people tend to look only at the latest thing, and that's Kershaw.

Forget what Lincecum's done over the last 4 seasons, it's all about the guy this year.

The National league probably has more top tier type pitchers than the AL.

Halladay and Lee are locked up in the NL anyways.. So no reason bringing them in this discussion.. The fact of the matter is that I'm a Kershaw slap.. He's 23 and is just getting into his prime and is a lefty with similar stuff to Verlander aside from fastball.. Not to mention he just won the triple crown... I'm pretty sure he has the highest trade value in all of the MLB.. Yesa I certainly would take Lincecum, but I would not want to trade all the young talent away to do so... Hamels is good as well but I'm not sure how he would do in the AL, plus he has Lee and Halladay making him look better.. Cain or Kennedy would be great as well, but I'm not trading the farm for either one..

 

[byco42]

Hamels is as reliable as a swiss watch, no matter who else is on the staff. I don't even know what "Lee and Halliday making him look better means." He sure as hell didn't need either pitcher in 2008.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Mitch[/color]]

It'd be tough for us to match up on a trade for Lincecum. It'd probably take at least three of Turner, Jackson, Porcello, Boesch, Perry and Schlereth. You'd create too many holes, IMHO. Beyond that, I really don't see him going anywhere.

3 of that? Hell they can have Perry, Schereth and Jackson and call it a day.

Notice I said "at least three". I think Boesch, Turner and Porcello would definitely get them listening. People act like Jackson is trash, but he's still got a lot of value too.

 

[tigers99888]

Hamels is as reliable as a swiss watch, no matter who else is on the staff. I don't even know what "Lee and Halliday making him look better means." He sure as hell didn't need either pitcher in 2008.

He had a terrible 2009 and he wasn't that great in the late second half of last year.. I just think he's a bit overrated.. The lineup and defense won it in 2008 more than his pitching.. His FIP in 2008 was 3.79 which indicated he had a great defense behind him getting to balls most other teams otherwise could not..
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4972&position=P

 

[byco42]

And he had a sub-1 whip this season.

 

[tigers99888]

And he had a sub-1 whip this season.

I agree this season was legit, but his previous season were either subpar or a product of the defense behind him.. If you have a tremendous defense getting to balls that would otherwise be hits on other teams, then you are somewhat being bailed out as proven by the stats in 2008... Let's see what he does in the future..

 

[Thumb]

Yea, I didn't understand why Kershaw only, but people tend to look only at the latest thing, and that's Kershaw.

Forget what Lincecum's done over the last 4 seasons, it's all about the guy this year.

The National league probably has more top tier type pitchers than the AL.

Halladay and Lee are locked up in the NL anyways.. So no reason bringing them in this discussion.. The fact of the matter is that I'm a Kershaw slap.. He's 23 and is just getting into his prime and is a lefty with similar stuff to Verlander aside from fastball.. Not to mention he just won the triple crown... I'm pretty sure he has the highest trade value in all of the MLB.. Yesa I certainly would take Lincecum, but I would not want to trade all the young talent away to do so... Hamels is good as well but I'm not sure how he would do in the AL, plus he has Lee and Halladay making him look better.. Cain or Kennedy would be great as well, but I'm not trading the farm for either one..

I still don't understand what you mean.

Halladay and Lee are locked up in the N.L.?

Well Kershaw is not a F.A. either, and under Dodgers control till 2015, but anyone can be traded.

You said the only pitcher from the N.L. you would want is Kershaw, and I'm saying that's dumb.

The N.L. is full of decent pitchers, more big name guys than the A.L. for sure.

Outside of Verlander, Sabathia, Weaver, Price, Shields, Felix, maybe Beckett, Ubaldo, and Lester, everyone else is kinda meh.

N.L. has Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Greinke, Cain, Kershaw, Strasburg, Jurrjens, Hanson, Lincecum, Cueto, Wainwright, Kennedy, Vogelsong, and R.A. Dickey.

No way the Dodgers trade Kershaw unless they get a whole hell of a lot more then we could offer them in return, they would be better off trying to trade Kemp or Ethier in a cut payroll situation.

 

[Rebbiv]

And he had a sub-1 whip this season.

I agree this season was legit, but his previous season were either subpar or a product of the defense behind him.. If you have a tremendous defense getting to balls that would otherwise be hits on other teams, then you are somewhat being bailed out as proven by the stats in 2008... Let's see what he does in the future..

2008 Hamels 3.09 ERA 3.72 FIP 3.58 xFIP

2009 Hamels 4.32 ERA 3.72 FIP 3.63 xFIP

PHI had the same defense in 2008 and 2009, so why is there a disparity?

2010 Verlander 3.37 ERA 2.97 FIP 3.52 xFIP

2011 Verlander 2.40 ERA 2.99 FIP 3.12 xFIP

Using your argument, Verlander benefited just as much as Hamels did in 2008 due to superior defense. What??? DET had great defense in 2011???

Of course not. Both Hamels and Verlander had basically their same FIP from one year to the next and saw a huge difference in their actual ERA. This is where looking at one season's stats can give you a misleading picture. Also, home park biases can greatly effect FIP and xFIP.

Last 3 years Away

Lincecum 2.92 ERA 3.13 FIP 2.92 xFIP (+0.22)
Hamels 3.66 ERA 3.72 FIP 3.44 xFIP (+0.06)
Verlander 3.58 ERA 3.14 FIP 2.93 xFIP (-0.44)

Both Lincecum and Verlander have basically the same FIP and xFIP, yet their actual ERA is different. The defenses for SFG, DET and PHI are the following:

2009-2011

SFG 101 Defensive Runs Saved

DET 35 Defensive Runs Saved

PHI -2 Defensive Runs Saved


Although FIP (and xFIP) are suppose to show defense neutral ERA, the actuality is they aren't really that close. IMHO, it really only shows how lucky or unlucky a pitcher has been.

 

[tycobb420]

The 5th spot is a hole, but the most pressing need is 2b

 

[lonesometiger]

The 5th spot is a hole, but the most pressing need is 2b

Agreed 2nd base is the greater need. But fill the holes/spots as operatives arrives.
Case in point the FA's are all ready signing 4 down all ready.
Good grief the Phillies signed Thome to 1 + mill contract!

 

[Mitchrapp]

I still think 3B is more pressing need. For me it comes down to Inge and new 2B or Santiago at 2B and a new 3B. I go with the latter.

 

[buddyboy2121]

Mitch[/color]]I still think 3B is more pressing need. For me it comes down to Inge and new 2B or Santiago at 2B and a new 3B. I go with the latter.

we have 3 options
1) Sign Jose Reyes move Peralta to third and sign Kelly Johnson to play second
2) Sign Aramis Ramirez and Platoon 2nd
3) Trade for either a 2B or 3B

 

[tycobb420]

Mitch[/color]]I still think 3B is more pressing need. For me it comes down to Inge and new 2B or Santiago at 2B and a new 3B. I go with the latter.

Tigers might not be willing to pay Santiago. Rumors have it the Twins will push for him.

 

[tycobb420]

[quote="Mitch":mkjzct01]I still think 3B is more pressing need. For me it comes down to Inge and new 2B or Santiago at 2B and a new 3B. I go with the latter.

we have 3 options
1) Sign Jose Reyes move Peralta to third and sign Kelly Johnson to play second
2) Sign Aramis Ramirez and Platoon 2nd
3) Trade for either a 2B or 3B[/quote:mkjzct01]

1. Absolutely not. Reyes is the next Carl Pavano.
2. Ramirez did not want to come here last year.
3. Most likely of the scenarios.

 

[Rebbiv]

More on FIP and xFIP as a useless stat (by itself):

Take the CHW. You have 3 pitchers who all have been there the last 3 years and a 4th that has been there 2+.

Last 3 years Away

Buehrle 79.31 RC/650 .749 OPS 1.28 WHIP 3.97 ERA 4.34 FIP +.35
Danks 72.14 RC/650 .709 OPS 1.29 WHIP 3.88 ERA 3.79 FIP +.09
Peavy 70.62 RC/650 .683 OPS 1.18 WHIP 4.18 ERA 3.83 FIP -.35
Floyd 72.91 RC/650 .711 OPS 1.29 WHIP 4.33 ERA 3.88 FIP -.45


In particular, observe Danks and Floyd peripheral stats. They are pretty much the same. If we didn't know they were both from the same team, some would say Danks has a better defense than Floyd. But because they were on the same team, with basically the same defense, then why the difference? There is no other statistical explanation as to why this difference exists.


AL Starter Averages over the last 3 years

80.57 RC/650 .747 OPS 1.36 WHIP 4.38 ERA 4.36 FIP 4.08 xFIP


NL Starter Averages over the last 3 years

78.20 RC/650 .738 OPS 1.34 WHIP 4.10 ERA 4.15 FIP 3.89 xFIP