Why Stafford will never be a great QB

[LKP]

Media? Stats, eyes, common sense says he sucked.

You are misinformed on the whole picture so you just think he sucks. That was not the case.

31 TDs and leading 13 other rushing TD drives will never suck.

 

[sggatecl]

You are misinformed on the whole picture so you just think he sucks. That was not the case.

31 TDs and leading 13 other rushing TD drives will never suck.

So now we're giving him credit for rushing touchdowns by other players? Ok. Keep reaching.

 

[grandy]

Blaming one player for everything is about as bad as giving one player credit for all scoring drives.

I'm amazed this board has become so divided on this, does anyone understand the concept of a team?

Can I also claim Bush and Bell helped setup most of Stafford's TDs?

 

[LKP]

So now we're giving him credit for rushing touchdowns by other players? Ok. Keep reaching.

The drives buddy. Bell punching it from the 2. They got there somehow. So yes Stafford gets credit for some of those drives.

 

[LKP]

Blaming one player for everything is about as bad as giving one player credit for all scoring drives.

I'm amazed this board has become so divided on this, does anyone understand the concept of a team?

Can I also claim Bush and Bell helped setup most of Stafford's TDs?

You can if you can prove it. I can prove it with Stafford setting up rushing Tds.

 

[mhughes0021]

I can claim we were 7-9 and didn't score enough rushing or passing TD's.

 

[LKP]

I can claim we were 7-9 and didn't score enough rushing or passing TD's.

I can claim it wasn't all or or even mostly Stafford fault that we didn't score more(drops, receiver separation, run game issues in certain games, protection issues in certain games) with alot of backup, Stafford didn't get have enough short field opportunities like other Qbs in the league (only 22 turnovers forced, 5 losses where we forced zero turnovrs) and the defense didn't make enough stops in some losses (Eagles, Pittsburgh, Arizona, Cincinatti). Plus injuries to Calvin where we average 11 PPG and 26.6 PPG(enough for sure) when Calvin played.

 

[LKP]

Defense played awesome against Vikings. No Calvin and Pettigrew, poor run blocking and 5 sacks allowed.


Gave up 27 to the Bengals. 24 with a blocked FG was enough. No turnovers forced.


Gave up 37 to Steelers. No turnovers forced. 27 is enough


Gave up 25 to the Cards. 21 and two FG attempts was enough. Bush bad handoff for 3 to Cards. Pick 6 was very helpful. No Bush in second half was not. 14 PPG when Bush doesn't play offensively.


at GB, No Calvin and Burleson, poor run blocking and poor protection.

Why does the Oline shit themselves when Cavlin doesn't play. And it was never just Calvin. It was Calvin/Burleson and Calvin/Pettigrew.

at Philly, Blizzard, run defense shit and Bell 2 fumbles in redzone. Though Stafford was half the problem on a big fumble lost. Ineligible man down field took away a first down pass down 22-20.

Bucs game, Giants game, Ravens game you got some beef. But Ravens game miracle FG and no turnovers forced and Stafford did lead a huge TD drive.

Bucs game, no turnovers forced and gave up 24 but Stafford had 3 costly picks, other Lions offensive players had 2 costly turnovers in 4th Quarter when Stafford made plays.

Giants game (limited Calvin, no Pettigrew), some poor protection, 3rd and 1 stuff on Bell, Dickerson drop and penatly. Though the Ross return and safety made life easier for Staffords TD drives. Gave up 23 with backup secondary and down 10 at half.

 

[grandy]

Between Bell and Bush (Bush rank and Bell rank in parentheses)

90 rushing 1st downs (17th and 19th)
44 rushes of 10+ yards (7th and 18th)
6 20+ rushes for Bush, including 4 30+ rushes
TB - 39 yard run midway through the 3rd quarter, sets up a drive to lengthen the Lions 4 point lead, Stafford throws it directly to Tandy pissing it all away
Chi - 37 yard TD run bumps the Lions lead to 20
@Cle - 39 yard run in the 3rd quarter, turns a dump pass into an 18 yard TD reception on the same drive
@Chi - 39 yard run at the start of the 3rd quarter down to the 8 yard line, setting up a short TD pass for Stafford-CJ giving the Lions a 7 point lead

103.5 rushing yards per game (11th and 36th)
Bush - 418 YAC (560 yards total), Bell - 460 YAC (547 yards total) (10th and 6th among RBs)

3 100+ rushing games for Bush
100+ total yard games by Bush - 8
4.8 YPC on 1st downs for Bush
4.4 YPC on 1st downs for Bell, sets up manageable 2nd and 3rd downs for the offense

 

[grandy]

Why does the Oline shit themselves when Cavlin doesn't play. And it was never just Calvin. It was Calvin/Burleson and Calvin/Pettigrew.

Just a guess,

The defense no longer has to commit multiple backs to CJ, thus making life difficult for Durham/Ogletree/Edwards/Whateverotherscrubtheysigned. Stafford can't get rid of the ball as quickly, holds onto it fractions of a second longer, pass protection breaks down and Stafford has to run for his life or hit the turf.

I'd be curious to know what Stafford's release time is in games without CJ.

 

[LKP]

Between Bell and Bush (Bush rank and Bell rank in parentheses)

90 rushing 1st downs (17th and 19th)
44 rushes of 10+ yards (7th and 18th)
6 20+ rushes for Bush, including 4 30+ rushes
TB - 39 yard run midway through the 3rd quarter, sets up a drive to lengthen the Lions 4 point lead, Stafford throws it directly to Tandy pissing it all away
Chi - 37 yard TD run bumps the Lions lead to 20
@Cle - 39 yard run in the 3rd quarter, turns a dump pass into an 18 yard TD reception on the same drive
@Chi - 39 yard run at the start of the 3rd quarter down to the 8 yard line, setting up a short TD pass for Stafford-CJ giving the Lions a 7 point lead

103.5 rushing yards per game (11th and 36th)
Bush - 418 YAC (560 yards total), Bell - 460 YAC (547 yards total) (10th and 6th among RBs)

3 100+ rushing games for Bush
100+ total yard games by Bush - 8
4.8 YPC on 1st downs for Bush
4.4 YPC on 1st downs for Bell, sets up manageable 2nd and 3rd downs for the offense

Still a proper play call and execution by Stafford on most of those pass plays to RBs. Not all of them are screens. Some wheel routes (Steeler game) and little slants(Vikings long Bush Td) and throws to the flat. Bush is in the slot sometimes too.

Running game did it's part but Stafford did alot on a ton of drives. 6th in passing first downs. Several clutch 2nd and 3rd down passing first downs I'm sure. They need to work in tandem but Stafford does the heavy work on most drives and deserves alot of the credit. Usually its Stafford AND someone else doing their job when good things happen. There are many times Stafford did his job but someone else didn't. More than Stafford not doing his job. It's one guy versus anyone else. Small amount of mess ups by everyone else each, lead to alot of mess ups.

 

[sggatecl]

The drives buddy. Bell punching it from the 2. They got there somehow. So yes Stafford gets credit for some of those drives.

Nah fuck that. You want to give credit to Stafford for the offenses positives and then blame the receivers for the negatives. Stop cherry picking.

 

[grandy]

Still a proper play call and execution by Stafford on most of those pass plays to RBs. Not all of them are screens. Some wheel routes (Steeler game) and little slants(Vikings long Bush Td) and throws to the flat. Bush is in the slot sometimes too.

Running game did it's part but Stafford did alot on a ton of drives. 6th in passing first downs. Several clutch 2nd and 3rd down passing first downs I'm sure. They need to work in tandem but Stafford does the heavy work on most drives and deserves alot of the credit. Usually its Stafford AND someone else doing their job when good things happen. There are many times Stafford did his job but someone else didn't. More than Stafford not doing his job. It's one guy versus anyone else. Small amount of mess ups by everyone else each, lead to alot of mess ups.

This is all I wanted to see.

I just wish people would look at the offense as a unit rather than individual players. Stafford, Bush, CJ, Bell, the O-line, and (insert scrub WR) all fucked up at some point leading to the clusterfuck that was the 2nd half of this season. Not entirely the offense's fault but turnovers and miscues on offense aren't going to lead to success.

It's the defense's job to hold the lead in all cases, but it's less pressure on them to hold a 10 point lead rather than a 3-4 point lead because Stafford or Bush coughed up the ball or CJ/Durham/Pettigrew dropped a crucial 3rd down pass at some point earlier in the game. 6 offensive TDs in the month of December isn't going to win you games in today's NFL.

 

[LKP]

Nah fuck that. You want to give credit to Stafford for the offenses positives and then blame the receivers for the negatives. Stop cherry picking.

Most offensive positives Stafford and someone else does their job correctly. That's just the truth. Most negatives it's a mix of Stafford or alot of other people. Since nobody is perfect, it's the other people adding up in small increments is what you are seeing as the problem when Stafford really only makes maybe 5-7 bad throws a game all on him. Sometimes we overcome them on later plays in the drive and sometimes we punt. 28 PPG is the 2nd highest in the league. That's 4 drives a game out of usually 10-12 drives. Punts and turnovers are going to happen. Need to understand whose fault it is. It's not always the QB.

 

[LKP]

This is all I wanted to see.

I just wish people would look at the offense as a unit rather than individual players. Stafford, Bush, CJ, Bell, the O-line, and (insert scrub WR) all fucked up at some point leading to the clusterfuck that was the 2nd half of this season. Not entirely the offense's fault but turnovers and miscues on offense aren't going to lead to success.

It's the defense's job to hold the lead in all cases, but it's less pressure on them to hold a 10 point lead rather than a 3-4 point lead because Stafford or Bush coughed up the ball or CJ/Durham/Pettigrew dropped a crucial 3rd down pass at some point earlier in the game. 6 offensive TDs in the month of December isn't going to win you games in today's NFL.

Blizzard and no Calvin a game and limited in another and no Pettigrew for 2. No run blocking for two either. The game Calvin played in normal conditions had 2 big drops. Tough December situation for Stafford. He definitely shares some blame.

Personally, I don't really seeing a new coach changning anything turnover wise. Low 30 turnovers could happen again and there is not a thing the coach can do about it. 19 picks, 15 fumbles. Lots of blame on Stafford but I see alot of fumbles there too by the Lions.

12 of Staffords 19 picks were his fault. Staffords first 7 picks in 9 games were in wins and a 6-3 start. Will those habit change magically in one offseason with a better number 2 WR (forcing less to Calvin 9 of 19 picks intended for Calvin). 16 and 15 fumbles lost the last 2 years is huge. Stafford does way more good than bad still but the coach really can't control Stafford or Bushs turnover proneness. You say more rushing attempts but that is more chances for Bush or someone else to fumble with less ball movement. And will a new offense cause communication issues that lead to turnovers?

If Schwartz wasn't a complete smug ass, he had a real case to keep his job.

 

[sggatecl]

Most offensive positives Stafford and someone else does their job correctly. That's just the truth. Most negatives it's a mix of Stafford or alot of other people. Since nobody is perfect, it's the other people adding up in small increments is what you are seeing as the problem when Stafford really only makes maybe 5-7 bad throws a game all on him. Sometimes we overcome them on later plays in the drive and sometimes we punt. 28 PPG is the 2nd highest in the league. That's 4 drives a game out of usually 10-12 drives. Punts and turnovers are going to happen. Need to understand whose fault it is. It's not always the QB.

That's all I needed to hear. We just have different standards for a franchise QB. Carry on.

 

[LKP]

That's all I needed to hear. We just have different standards for a franchise QB. Carry on.

Lol your standards are ridiculous. I could give you 5 from Peyton every game he would want back. And in Peytons case he has more guys to bail him out. Staffords case he only has a doubled Calvin to really bail him out.

 

[sggatecl]

Lol your standards are ridiculous. I could give you 5 from Peyton every game he would want back. And in Peytons case he has more guys to bail him out. Staffords case he only has a doubled Calvin to really bail him out.

That's a lot of empty talk, you and your game film. No you won't (and can't).

The fact that you're comparing Stafford to Manning shows that you're either A.) extremely delusional or B.) a troll. Neither would surprise me.

 

[LKP]

That's a lot of empty talk, you and your game film. No you won't (and can't).

The fact that you're comparing Stafford to Manning shows that you're either A.) extremely delusional or B.) a troll. Neither would surprise me.

I can. Would you like 2012 and 2013 or just 2013 season.

 

[lgolfer]

I can. Would you like 2012 and 2013 or just 2013 season.

If you even think you can compare the 2013 seasons from Stafford and Manning, you're beyond mad. Manning just had the best statistical season in the history of the NFL and Stafford had another average (some say below average) season. And if you list reasons why it's not his fault, you can do that with every other QB in the league, even if it's not to the same degree.