WTF, y r they not making changes already?

[dubbsco]

No, this year was not a fluke. I would be more apt to say that 2010 was a fluke. Making the playoffs was really a mirage of what this organization is all about, losing. If we play the "things didn't go our way" card for this year, I can play the, "everything went our way" card in 2011. Huge rallies against Minnesota, Dallas, Oakland. Minnesota fumbles the ball on the 1 on the last play.

We all thought, myself included, that this organization turned a corner. This year really showed they have a long ways to go. Drafting, attitude, coaching, players getting long in the tooth, the Lions have some serious problems, and I guess I don't understand some of the blind optimism on here, saying that they are so close. They aren't.

 

[zyxt9]

i think part of the 2011 euphoria was also a mistaken belief that the Football Gods of Luck had finally smiled on the organization. obviously they just took a year off from bashing the Lions and returned to smiting them this year.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Better than Gunther's cover zero.

:lmao:

 

[LKP]

Stafford's 17 picks and the 16 fumbles lost. Are we blaming the coaching staff for that? 7 of them led to a TD or plus 2 put them inside the Lions 5. Plus those turnovers led to 10 possession inside the Lions 40 which lead to 10 FGs. D actually did well to hold to a FG on those 10 possessions. That's 93 points right there from turnovers plus 4 special teams returns(which was fixed after the bye).

Lions threw 13 less redzone TDs. Lions had more 8 rushing TDs though. That's more Stafford throwing the ball 100 mph and the receivers other than Johnson not getting separtion than Linehan. So 5 less. I'll give you 5 redzone possessions, the drop by Pettigrew against the Vikings, the 4 and out due to pressure against the Vikings, the 2 fumbles vs the Bears in the redzone, the Stafford pick due to pressure in the redzone against the Bears, forced field goals twice home vs Green Bay and once against Indy and held to a fg. 102 yard pick 6 against the Cards vs the Falcons and a 4 and out redzone against the Falcons. Fix that, which Stafford can and Lions win 5 more games.

10 less picks and 6 less fumbles recovered. Lions forced 17 fumbles last year but recovered 13. They forced 15 this year(only 2 less) but only recovered 9. Ball didn't bounce our way there.

10 less picks, Lions DEs had 50 less hurries(KVB/Willie Young sucking and Avril going back to average), Wright/Smith gambled half the time in 2011 and got burnt but did have 7 picks combined and Houston had 3 less picks this year. Other than maybe DE pressure I don't blame the coaching staff but I think our DEs just sucked unexpectedly which took away the turnovers. Draft a stud DE or at the very least who can produce what Avril did in 2011.

 

[tonyballs]

Stafford's 17 picks and the 16 fumbles lost. Are we blaming the coaching staff for that? 7 of them led to a TD or plus 2 put them inside the Lions 5. Plus those turnovers led to 10 possession inside the Lions 40 which lead to 10 FGs. D actually did well to hold to a FG on those 10 possessions. That's 93 points right there from turnovers plus 4 special teams returns(which was fixed after the bye).

Lions threw 13 less redzone TDs. Lions had more 8 rushing TDs though. That's more Stafford throwing the ball 100 mph and the receivers other than Johnson not getting separtion than Linehan. So 5 less. I'll give you 5 redzone possessions, the drop by Pettigrew against the Vikings, the 4 and out due to pressure against the Vikings, the 2 fumbles vs the Bears in the redzone, the Stafford pick due to pressure in the redzone against the Bears, forced field goals twice home vs Green Bay and once against Indy and held to a fg vs the Falcons and a 4 and out redzone against the Falcons. Fix that, which Stafford can and Lions win 5 more games.

10 less picks and 6 less fumbles recovered. Lions forced 17 fumbles last year but recovered 13. They forced 15 this year(only 2 less) but only recovered 9. Ball didn't bounce our way there.

10 less picks, Lions DEs had 50 less hurries(KVB/Willie Young sucking and Avril going back to average), Wright/Smith gambled half the time in 2011 and got burnt but did have 7 picks combined and Houston had 3 less picks this year. Other than maybe DE pressure I don't blame the coaching staff but I think our DEs just sucked unexpectedly which took away the turnovers. Draft a stud DE or at the very least who can produce what Avril did in 2011.

Someone has to go! Cunningham 110% needs to be the fuck out. Keep Linehan i guess..ugh...they threw for a shitload of yards, but didn't score as much. They were a Top 10 offense i believe, but Cunningham needs to go..there's not even a question about it.

 

[LKP]

Someone has to go! Cunningham 110% needs to be the fuck out. Keep Linehan i guess..ugh...they threw for a shitload of yards, but didn't score as much. They were a Top 10 offense i believe, but Cunningham needs to go..there's not even a question about it.

Why does Gunther have to go? Tulloch, Durant, Levy all suck at blitzing, so he can't mix it up with blitzing. Lions had 1 sack from blitzes this year. One sack!!!!!

So it's up to the DEs and DTS. Fairley and Suh did really well but they kind of disappeared on this infamous 4th Quarters. DEs sucked most of the year.

You pissed about the Indy game with Gunther? Luck has been doing it all year and on that first TD in the comeback, Willie Young and SLH had pressure, Young even hit Luck and the proper coverage was called. Drayton Florence just let a guy run by him. Green Bay game? There was a block in the back springing Finley for 40 yards and Cobb was doubled on that 3rd and 1 but still made the TD catch.

Better DE talent and a better safety fixes alot of the problems. And Delmas staying healthy would be nice.

 

[cheeno]

Why does Gunther have to go? Tulloch, Durant, Levy all suck at blitzing, so he can't mix it up with blitzing. Lions had 1 sack from blitzes this year. One sack!!!!!

So it's up to the DEs and DTS. Fairley and Suh did really well but they kind of disappeared on this infamous 4th Quarters. DEs sucked most of the year.

You pissed about the Indy game with Gunther? Luck has been doing it all year and on that first TD in the comeback, Willie Young and SLH had pressure, Young even hit Luck and the proper coverage was called. Drayton Florence just let a guy run by him. Green Bay game? There was a block in the back springing Finley for 40 yards and Cobb was doubled on that 3rd and 1 but still made the TD catch.

Better DE talent and a better safety fixes alot of the problems. And Delmas staying healthy would be nice.

Hakim Optical or Lens Crafters?

 

[tonyballs]

Why does Gunther have to go? Tulloch, Durant, Levy all suck at blitzing, so he can't mix it up with blitzing. Lions had 1 sack from blitzes this year. One sack!!!!!

So it's up to the DEs and DTS. Fairley and Suh did really well but they kind of disappeared on this infamous 4th Quarters. DEs sucked most of the year.

You pissed about the Indy game with Gunther? Luck has been doing it all year and on that first TD in the comeback, Willie Young and SLH had pressure, Young even hit Luck and the proper coverage was called. Drayton Florence just let a guy run by him. Green Bay game? There was a block in the back springing Finley for 40 yards and Cobb was doubled on that 3rd and 1 but still made the TD catch.

Better DE talent and a better safety fixes alot of the problems. And Delmas staying healthy would be nice.

Ok, i get what you're saying. So we get rid of players instead of Gunther? Every LB you named is a starter for the Lions. Pretty much everyone you named starts for the Lions defense..lol.
I understand and i'm on board that some of these guys will not be brought back, but someone has to be held accountable for this defense. It's a business and like you know, the coaches get the axe in the long run. Sorry, but it's true. They don't make the important stops on crucial times in a game. That's on Gunther wether you want to believe that or not. Other teams adjust and Gunther doesn't.

Changes NEED to be made immediately. Coaches are getting fired like the plague taking lives right now. If they keep this coaching staff again (especially Gunther), we're looking at another 5 win season next year. That's a guarantee!!

Delmas will NEVER be healthy. He needs to be gone.

 

[LKP]

Hakim Optical or Lens Crafters?

I described exaclty what happened in those 2 games. And saw Tulloch, Durant, Safeties and CBs get picked up so many times when we did blitz.

Give me a DE that can make a play like Avril did in 2011 and the Lions are back in business. 50 less hurries by DEs may lead to 10 less picks. QBs that tend to have time usually stay accurate.

And also the fact that 93 points were scored on this defense because of the offense(not because of Linehan, but because of stupid turnovers) and 28 additional points came because of the special teams. Detroit truly gives up 19 PPG defensively and that's good enough to keep Gunther.

And Stafford's 16 ints in 2011 and 17 ints in 2012 needs work. Granted 10 of 16 from 2011 was when he was hurt, but 9 of 17 this year was in 3 games as well. Nobody noticed last year because Stafford was better in the redzone.

Of course with so many attempts he's bound to get picked more. Run blocking would be nice. If you think run blocking is on Linehan then fire him. If you think run blocking is on Backus, Raiola, Peterman and Gosder then replace them.

 

[LKP]

Ok, i get what you're saying. So we get rid of players instead of Gunther? Every LB you named is a starter for the Lions. Pretty much everyone you named starts for the Lions defense..lol.
I understand and i'm on board that some of these guys will not be brought back, but someone has to be held accountable for this defense. It's a business and like you know, the coaches get the axe in the long run. Sorry, but it's true. They don't make the important stops on crucial times in a game. That's on Gunther wether you want to believe that or not. Other teams adjust and Gunther doesn't.

Changes NEED to be made immediately. Coaches are getting fired like the plague taking lives right now. If they keep this coaching staff again (especially Gunther), we're looking at another 5 win season next year. That's a guarantee!!

Personnel changes will be made, hopefully at DE and safety. Lions DEs. Cut KVB, like right now. The guy was garbage this year. He served a purpose in 2010 to mentor and made plays here and there in 2010/2011 but he has to be the worst DE in the league. Old free agents fall off the talent cliff and he did. He was always a hustle guy anyway. Now he's a hustle guy with less speed and no power.

I'd love for them to bring an OLB who can blitz, cover and play run defense. There isn't one on the roster. Probably won't get one either as there are bigger fish to fry at DE and safety. They'll be lucky to keep Durant or Levy. It's up to Whitehead, Lewis or Ashlee Palmer on the other side. Gunther will have to make due there.

Avril sucks at run defense and so do Young and KVB maybe even worse. It's always been the case but 2011 Avril provided a more consistent pass rush. If you think he can get back to that form then re-sign him at the right price(less than the 10 million per they offered last year), but he probably thinks he's worth more due to 9.5 sacks after an 11 sack year while completing ignoring how consitent he was or how he played against the run. It's all about sacks to the agent and player.

Better backup safeties personnel. Delmas got hurt. It was his other knee(bad luck) and then a re-injury because McQuistan took a cheap shot in the Seattle game. Spievey missed 11 as well. Detroit backup plan sucked with Coleman and Wendling. Gunther had to make due on top of the no DE pressure thing.

This team was relying on Best. It won us 2 big division games last year. Best took part in all OTAs and the doctors then said one full year(October). Then the doctors changed their minds and didn't clear him or were too scared to clear him and the Lions didn't target an explosive back and instead made good picks for the future with Reiff and Broyles given Backus and Burlesons age.

It is a personnel issue. Not a massive personnel issue but important positions such as DE and safety.

 

[cheeno]

So let me get this straight. The team is talentless so it's not the coaches fault. That is your assessment.

 

[cheeno]

....and you predict 10-6 next year. You have yellow skin and wear blue pants.

 

[mhughes0021]

LKP...youre deelusional man...im sorry. i repsect your passion and optimism. but its just flat out wrong. Gunther choses not to blitz...it has nothing to do with LB personel. Hell...the redskins have a 80 year veteran in london fletcher and they blitzed him like 90% of the game last night. Youre telling me hes a better blitzer than durant or levy? No....its scheme....and gunther has no scheme.

 

[mhughes0021]

So let me get this straight. The team is talentless so it's not the coaches fault. That is your assessment.

i tried telling him its mayhews fault in 3 pages worth of threads yesterday....it didnt work. He kept telling me how we have to wait and see how whitehead is going to pan out. And that a bunch of trades we made 3 years ago and now all free agents or overpriced pieces of garbage was worth getting nothing out of drafts over the last 4 years.

 

[tonyballs]

Personnel changes will be made, hopefully at DE and safety. Lions DEs. Cut KVB, like right now. The guy was garbage this year. He served a purpose in 2010 to mentor and made plays here and there in 2010/2011 but he has to be the worst DE in the league. Old free agents fall off the talent cliff and he did. He was always a hustle guy anyway. Now he's a hustle guy with less speed and no power.

I'd love for them to bring an OLB who can blitz, cover and play run defense. There isn't one on the roster. Probably won't get one either as there are bigger fish to fry at DE and safety. They'll be lucky to keep Durant or Levy. It's up to Whitehead, Lewis or Ashlee Palmer on the other side. Gunther will have to make due there.

Avril sucks at run defense and so do Young and KVB maybe even worse. It's always been the case but 2011 Avril provided a more consistent pass rush. If you think he can get back to that form then re-sign him at the right price(less than the 10 million per they offered last year), but he probably thinks he's worth more due to 9.5 sacks after an 11 sack year while completing ignoring how consitent he was or how he played against the run. It's all about sacks to the agent and player.

Better backup safeties personnel. Delmas got hurt. It was his other knee(bad luck) and then a re-injury because McQuistan took a cheap shot in the Seattle game. Spievey missed 11 as well. Detroit backup plan sucked with Coleman and Wendling. Gunther had to make due on top of the no DE pressure thing.

This team was relying on Best. It won us 2 big division games last year. Best took part in all OTAs and the doctors then said one full year(October). Then the doctors changed their minds and didn't clear him or were too scared to clear him and the Lions didn't target an explosive back and instead made good picks for the future with Reiff and Broyles given Backus and Burlesons age.

It is a personnel issue. Not a massive personnel issue but important positions such as DE and safety.

Well, i don't feel comfortable with Cunningham back as the Dco. Every other fn team fires coaches. Why are we different? Players hurt, backups, rookies...i'm sick of the excuses.

 

[kalinecountry]

http://www.detroitlions.com/media-c...e_Part_1/7591fde9-0138-4dfb-b8c9-63884838a8ca
Monday Press Conference: Part 1.

 

[LKP]

So let me get this straight. The team is talentless so it's not the coaches fault. That is your assessment.

They aren't talentless. Just at DE unexpectedly after 2011 and backup safety they were. They have solid workhorse backs but need an explosive back as well. Center to Right guard has pass pro talent other than Peterman and but they are way too inconsistent in run blocking. And it's never at the same time. It's always one break down, then another guy breaks down, then Sims unexpectedly breaks down or LeShoure makes a wrong read or slips. It's very complicated. It's not they have all the talent in the world or no talent.

Talent is there. Not living up to your talent happens sometimes too for various reason. Injuries(Best, Broyles, Delmas), being an idiot(Titus Young), unexpected regression (Stafford (redzone), Pettigrew, Tulloch).

And why do people think Gunther chooses not to blitz. Maybe he sees the tape and sees the blitz is ineffective, which when he did blitz it usually was ineffect. Why does he leave the CBs back instead of bump. Maybe because Houston was the only CB who could bump and recover turning his head around and the backup safeties were playing. Stunts were run at times along the Dline but that is one area he could have changed a little bit. Wide 9 gets messed up though when people are out of their rushing lanes. See QBs always being able to scramble against us.

 

[cheeno]

They aren't talentless. Just at DE unexpectedly after 2011 and backup safety they were. They have solid workhorse backs but need an explosive back as well. Center to Right guard has pass pro talent other than Peterman and but they are way too inconsistent in run blocking. And it's never at the same time. It's always one break down, then another guy breaks down, then Sims unexpectedly breaks down or LeShoure makes a wrong read or slips. It's very complicated. It's not they have all the talent in the world or no talent.

Talent is there. Not living up to your talent happens sometimes too for various reason. Injuries(Best, Broyles, Delmas), being an idiot(Titus Young), unexpected regression (Stafford (redzone), Pettigrew, Tulloch).

And why do people think Gunther chooses not to blitz. Maybe he sees the tape and sees the blitz is ineffective, which when he did blitz it usually was ineffect. Why does he leave the CBs back instead of bump. Maybe because Houston was the only CB who could bump and recover turning his head around and the backup safeties were playing. Stunts were run at times along the Dline but that is one area he could have changed a little bit. Wide 9 gets messed up though when people are out of their rushing lanes. See QBs always being able to scramble against us.

This is basically Logan's reasoning. We all sucked so no one deserves blame for sucking.

 

[mhughes0021]

They aren't talentless. Just at DE unexpectedly after 2011 and backup safety they were. They have solid workhorse backs but need an explosive back as well. Center to Right guard has pass pro talent other than Peterman and but they are way too inconsistent in run blocking. And it's never at the same time. It's always one break down, then another guy breaks down, then Sims unexpectedly breaks down or LeShoure makes a wrong read or slips. It's very complicated. It's not they have all the talent in the world or no talent.

Talent is there. Not living up to your talent happens sometimes too for various reason. Injuries(Best, Broyles, Delmas), being an idiot(Titus Young), unexpected regression (Stafford (redzone), Pettigrew, Tulloch).

And why do people think Gunther chooses not to blitz. Maybe he sees the tape and sees the blitz is ineffective, which when he did blitz it usually was ineffect. Why does he leave the CBs back instead of bump. Maybe because Houston was the only CB who could bump and recover turning his head around and the backup safeties were playing. Stunts were run at times along the Dline but that is one area he could have changed a little bit. Wide 9 gets messed up though when people are out of their rushing lanes. See QBs always being able to scramble against us.

not living up to talent is a constant problem for us.....which is why its the coaches fault. Ive said it a million times....when most of our team has talent but instead fades into obscurity its cause we dont get anything out of our players.

Gunther doesnt have more than a 3 line playbook cause hes a moron. Even with our talented front 4 we dont stunt. so we dont blitz, we dont stunt and we have a bunch of shit for a secondary. G.....can you make it ANY easier for an opposing offense? The real problem is he should have seen this after like week 4. But he continued to do nothing to change it up. he kept doing.....nothing. Hes either fucking senile or just plain retarded.

 

[LKP]

not living up to talent is a constant problem for us.....which is why its the coaches fault. Ive said it a million times....when most of our team has talent but instead fades into obscurity its cause we dont get anything out of our players.

Gunther doesnt have more than a 3 line playbook cause hes a moron. Even with our talented front 4 we dont stunt. so we dont blitz, we dont stunt and we have a bunch of shit for a secondary. G.....can you make it ANY easier for an opposing offense? The real problem is he should have seen this after like week 4. But he continued to do nothing to change it up. he kept doing.....nothing. Hes either fucking senile or just plain retarded.

They did live up to the talent in 2011 especially Stafford, Avril, Tulloch and Pettigrew. They didn't in 2012 plus had more injury issues.

I don't know if stunting Avril, Young, Jackson and KVB more fix that much. You get out of your rushing lanes in the wide 9 and it leads to problems. See Luck's game winning TD with Suh(who had a good year) out of his gap. How is that Gunther's fault when it's on the 5th read and Suh isn't where is supposed to be but Suh knows where he is supposed to be. Same with Florence on the TD before that. Florence knows he has the deep man, it's their 4th option Brazil or whatever his names is. Young and Hill get pressure, Florence a veteran CB just let's a guy run by him for no reason. That is not coaching stupidity, that's a lack of focus by a veteran player.