WTF, y r they not making changes already?

[cheeno]

A. Either we have talent and we lose to teams with less talent ie coaching
AZ game glaring example

Or B. we don't have talent and we can't win with the bums we have now ie gm
Pick a position, player

LKP chose C. Some convoluted list of excuses that blames everyone and no one at once.

 

[mhughes0021]

They did live up to the talent in 2011 especially Stafford, Avril, Tulloch and Pettigrew. They didn't in 2012 plus had more injury issues.

I don't know if stunting Avril, Young, Jackson and KVB more fix that much. You get out of your rushing lanes in the wide 9 and it leads to problems. See Luck's game winning TD with Suh(who had a good year) out of his gap. How is that Gunther's fault when it's on the 5th read and Suh isn't where is supposed to be but Suh knows where he is supposed to be. Same with Florence on the TD before that. Florence knows he has the deep man, it's their 4th option Brazil or whatever his names is. Young and Hill get pressure, Florence a veteran CB just let's a guy run by him for no reason. That is not coaching stupidity, that's a lack of focus by a veteran player.

ok...so now were not allowed to blitz

lmao dude youre comical. Were a subpar team...but its no ones fault. We cant blitz cause were talentless and our scheme doesnt allow us to blitz.....but its no ones fault. Weve done nothing on Special teams all year except give other teams field position and points....but its no ones fault.

 

[cheeno]

They did live up to the talent in 2011 especially Stafford, Avril, Tulloch and Pettigrew. They didn't in 2012 plus had more injury issues.

I don't know if stunting Avril, Young, Jackson and KVB more fix that much. You get out of your rushing lanes in the wide 9 and it leads to problems. See Luck's game winning TD with Suh(who had a good year) out of his gap. How is that Gunther's fault when it's on the 5th read and Suh isn't where is supposed to be but Suh knows where he is supposed to be. Same with Florence on the TD before that. Florence knows he has the deep man, it's their 4th option Brazil or whatever his names is. Young and Hill get pressure, Florence a veteran CB just let's a guy run by him for no reason. That is not coaching stupidity, that's a lack of focus by a veteran player.

So the coaches know what to do but the players don't do it?

 

[LKP]

So the coaches know what to do but the players don't do it?

Players can have mental lapses yes. Most of these players are borderline retarded if they didn't play football. Coaches are usually the smartest of the bunch. Many smart players usually become coaches.

 

[LKP]

ok...so now were not allowed to blitz

lmao dude youre comical. Were a subpar team...but its no ones fault. We cant blitz cause were talentless and our scheme doesnt allow us to blitz.....but its no ones fault. Weve done nothing on Special teams all year except give other teams field position and points....but its no ones fault.

The LBs aren't talentless. Durant and Tulloch are good in run defense, Levy and Tulloch can cover some. They just can't blitz. Not a big deal for a 4-3 team that is built to supposedly have an awesome front 4. The DTs are awesome, the DEs went from one good, 3 solid, to one average and 3 sucky DEs suprisingly from 2011 to 2012

Special teams coverage got much better after the bye despite having to use a backup punter in Nick Harris due to an injury. An injury on a punt by Ben Graham that caused a low punt which allowed the Titans to even try that throw back punt return. The other punt return, a guy who has had a good year in Kassim Osgood, missed a tackle along with Joique Bell. It was fixed. Osgood just started playing better and they took Green off special teams. The Titans kick return was just great execution on a monster block. The other one Osgood out of his lane, a guy who is a pro bowler for special teams and Harvin is a blazer.

 

[cheeno]

Players can have mental lapses yes. Most of these players are borderline retarded if they didn't play football. Coaches are usually the smartest of the bunch. Many smart players usually become coaches.

Many soldiers are dumb. They do their job right because of respect and discipline from their superiors. So either the coaches don't know shit or the players don't have discipline or respect. Stupidity is not an excuse.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Stafford's 17 picks and the 16 fumbles lost. Are we blaming the coaching staff for that? 7 of them led to a TD or plus 2 put them inside the Lions 5. Plus those turnovers led to 10 possession inside the Lions 40 which lead to 10 FGs. D actually did well to hold to a FG on those 10 possessions. That's 93 points right there from turnovers plus 4 special teams returns(which was fixed after the bye).

Lions threw 13 less redzone TDs. Lions had more 8 rushing TDs though. That's more Stafford throwing the ball 100 mph and the receivers other than Johnson not getting separtion than Linehan. So 5 less. I'll give you 5 redzone possessions, the drop by Pettigrew against the Vikings, the 4 and out due to pressure against the Vikings, the 2 fumbles vs the Bears in the redzone, the Stafford pick due to pressure in the redzone against the Bears, forced field goals twice home vs Green Bay and once against Indy and held to a fg. 102 yard pick 6 against the Cards vs the Falcons and a 4 and out redzone against the Falcons. Fix that, which Stafford can and Lions win 5 more games.

10 less picks and 6 less fumbles recovered. Lions forced 17 fumbles last year but recovered 13. They forced 15 this year(only 2 less) but only recovered 9. Ball didn't bounce our way there.

10 less picks, Lions DEs had 50 less hurries(KVB/Willie Young sucking and Avril going back to average), Wright/Smith gambled half the time in 2011 and got burnt but did have 7 picks combined and Houston had 3 less picks this year. Other than maybe DE pressure I don't blame the coaching staff but I think our DEs just sucked unexpectedly which took away the turnovers. Draft a stud DE or at the very least who can produce what Avril did in 2011.

You know what? All defenses stop other teams now and then. But one thing is a fact, the D can't make a stop when it matters most - at the end.

 

[LKP]

You know what? All defenses stop other teams now and then. But one thing is a fact, the D can't make a stop when it matters most - at the end.

And DE pressure was the biggest problem for that. Coming into the season, Mayhew had 3 solid guys and 1 good guy coming off a good season, during the season plus 2 stud DTs.

But then unexpectedly, the 3 solid became 3 terrible and the 1 good became average, plus Delmas hurt his other knee(notice all those 4th Quarter Delmas missed). Plus the stud DTs don't always show up in the 4th.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And DE pressure was the biggest problem for that. Coming into the season, Mayhew had 3 solid guys and 1 good guy coming off a good season, during the season plus 2 stud DTs.

But then unexpectedly, the 3 solid became 3 terrible and the 1 good became average, plus Delmas hurt his other knee(notice all those 4th Quarter Delmas missed). Plus the stud DTs don't always show up in the 4th.

Its not just the DE pressure. Teams run on us in the last minutes as well. Plus the secondary stinks. And it matters little if we have talent if that talent disappears in the last moments.

 

[LKP]

Its not just the DE pressure. Teams run on us in the last minutes as well. Plus the secondary stinks. And it matters little if we have talent if that talent disappears in the last moments.

It starts with the DE pressure at the most important time. That's when they earn their big paychecks. QB can't pick apart a defense in obvious pass situations with pressure in his face and on his blindside. That's when picks happen and will happen if Detroit gets a stud DE and Fairley/Suh play better in the 4th Quarter next year.

Detroit has made the run defense stops late in the games several times this year. The Chicago game was not one of them though when Avril, yes a DE let Forte loose. And the Cutler scramble was a pass play, backup backup DT Andre Fluellen was out his gap and Jackson was too far up the field. With Fairley and Sammie Lee Hill this team made run stops.

 

[tigermud]

They aren't talentless. Just at DE unexpectedly after 2011 and backup safety they were. They have solid workhorse backs but need an explosive back as well. Center to Right guard has pass pro talent other than Peterman and but they are way too inconsistent in run blocking. And it's never at the same time. It's always one break down, then another guy breaks down, then Sims unexpectedly breaks down or LeShoure makes a wrong read or slips. It's very complicated. It's not they have all the talent in the world or no talent.

Talent is there. Not living up to your talent happens sometimes too for various reason. Injuries(Best, Broyles, Delmas), being an idiot(Titus Young), unexpected regression (Stafford (redzone), Pettigrew, Tulloch).

And why do people think Gunther chooses not to blitz. Maybe he sees the tape and sees the blitz is ineffective, which when he did blitz it usually was ineffect. Why does he leave the CBs back instead of bump. Maybe because Houston was the only CB who could bump and recover turning his head around and the backup safeties were playing. Stunts were run at times along the Dline but that is one area he could have changed a little bit. Wide 9 gets messed up though when people are out of their rushing lanes. See QBs always being able to scramble against us.

and hey who knows maybe one of these years they'll even use the draft to address these re-occurring weak spots

 

[cheeno]

and hey who knows maybe one of these years they'll even use the draft to address these re-occurring weak spots

We draft BPA which often turns out to be WPA.

 

[LKP]

and hey who knows maybe one of these years they'll even use the draft to address these re-occurring weak spots

Like taking 3 CBs and getting 2 free agent corners.

Or how about using a 2nd and 3rd on safeties then having unfortunate injuries.

They ignored DE and they got an unexpected sucky surprise from all 4 DES regressing.

Draft the ignored need. DE

And wasn't future Left Tackle an ignored need too.

 

[tigermud]

We draft BPA which often turns out to be WPA.

they should consider not doing that once, seems like every year everyone can identify the urgent needs and they they never do much to address it. it's pure madness.

 

[LKP]

they should consider not doing that once, seems like every year everyone can identify the urgent needs and they they never do much to address it. it's pure madness.

Like future left tackle. Ignored forever. Oh wait they did address it with Reiff.

 

[tigermud]

Like taking 3 CBs and getting 2 free agent corners.

Or how about using a 2nd and 3rd on safeties then having unfortunate injuries.

They ignored DE and they got an unexpected sucky surprise from all 4 DES regressing.

Draft the ignored need. DE

And wasn't future Left Tackle an ignored need too.

I agree the first pick needs to be DE then another one after that, we've got two that need to be replaced. Let's make sure they are guys without injury and or off the field problems also!

 

[LKP]

I agree the first pick needs to be DE then another one after that, we've got two that need to be replaced. Let's make sure they are guys without injury and or off the field problems also!

I like the idea but I still think they need a vet presence at DE and there will be plenty of good safeties at the top of Round 2 hopefully or at the very least a CB, speed WR, mauling guard or speed RB in 2 and 3. Hopefully someone who as a rookie is signifcantly better than Avril and KVB. Won't be hard for KVB. I'll even take someone as good as 2011 Avril as a rookie.

 

[lgolfer]

Like taking 3 CBs and getting 2 free agent corners.

Or how about using a 2nd and 3rd on safeties then having unfortunate injuries.

They ignored DE and they got an unexpected sucky surprise from all 4 DES regressing.

Draft the ignored need. DE

And wasn't future Left Tackle an ignored need too.

Chris Greenwood was never going to play much if at all this year, too much to learn from Albion to the NFL. Jonte Green turned out better than expected for a 6th round pick and Bentley was injured for most of the year.

Getting Florence and Lacey was basically the equivalent to picking up guys off the street. We need to resign Houston to a short (1 or 2 year) deal and actually get a decent corner in the secondary. Bentley can play nickel.

I agree that drafting a DE with our 1st pick should help a lot on defense. Then maybe our D-line could live up to the supposed hype.

 

[LKP]

Chris Greenwood was never going to play much if at all this year, too much to learn from Albion to the NFL. Jonte Green turned out better than expected for a 6th round pick and Bentley was injured for most of the year.

Getting Florence and Lacey was basically the equivalent to picking up guys off the street. We need to resign Houston to a short (1 or 2 year) deal and actually get a decent corner in the secondary. Bentley can play nickel.

I agree that drafting a DE with our 1st pick should help a lot on defense. Then maybe our D-line could live up to the supposed hype.

But still drafting even just Bentley isn't ignoring CB. And having a recently drafted 2nd and 3rd round safety isn't ignoring safety. We got screwed by Delmas other knee and a cheap shot by McQuistan. Plus people forget at that time Berry is supposed to be the number 2 for the Lions. Screwed every which way by off field then injury to Bentley. Eric Wright and Lacey were in the same mold as a one year nickel with experience. It worked out some with Wright (though Lacey was better in coverage and run defense actually) but Wright got the picks because he gambled and the Lions got better pressure in 2011.

Free agency for more than bargains at CB was clearly not an option thanks to the old CBA with Suh/Stafford/Calvin contract, need to bring Tulloch back, need to bring Backus/Shaun Hill back and Avril's good year and high demands in 2011.

 

[andthereitgoes84]

So just heard they cut some position coaches...

http://www.mlive.com/lions/team/1356990125-760-259/detroit-lions-have-cut-ties.html

(yawn)