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2017 Playoffs - Astros electronic sign stealing - Now Astros fire Luhnow and Hinch

kalinecountry said:
...and off course chin music and hit by pitch astro batters.
Click to expand...

I sincerely doubt there will be as much 'chin music' as some might want to think. Manfred has already warned that MLB will be protecting the Astros from that type of 'retribution' ..and fines and suspensions will likely be persuasive enough to discourage such conduct.

There will be an episode or two early on ..maybe another during the pennant stretch ..but for the most part ..I suspect a lot of the talk is just that ..only talk.

One could consider that since many teams had already suspected the Astros of stealing signs during seasons past ..it certainly did not cause a bunch of 'head-hunting' then ..so why blindly believe it will now?
 
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Stealing signs have always been part of the game. It is the mechanical relay that was verboten.

Old school baseball had chin music whenever a team was suspected of stealing signs, especially to a hitter trying to sneak a look at the catcher. I suspect HOU will see their fair share of chin music, but nothing that would jeopardize the outcome of any given game.

And finally, Media are selling their story and this is the story. The more they can make of it the better it is for them. Eventually, like all stories, it will die a natural death. But that won't be any time soon.
 
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Chin music is fine as long it is within the baseball code. I just don’t think this is as bad as the 1919 blacksox scandal or Steroids. Steroids is the worst of the bunch. I just don’t really care about sign stealing electronic or any other way. Catchers and pitchers should be mixing yup the signs all the time in games. I would be changing signs all the time if I was a catcher or pitcher in a World Series or playoffs. Just my opinion but we should just move on.
 
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biggunsbob said:
Chin music is fine as long it is within the baseball code. I just don?t think this is as bad as the 1919 blacksox scandal or Steroids. Steroids is the worst of the bunch. I just don?t really care about sign stealing electronic or any other way. Catchers and pitchers should be mixing yup the signs all the time in games. I would be changing signs all the time if I was a catcher or pitcher in a World Series or playoffs. Just my opinion but we should just move on.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty funny. People get on their high horse about what the Astros stealing signs but stealing signs is an acceptable practice. They just didn't like how they were stealing them. Does that make any sense? That's like saying it's ok to steal my car as long as you pick the lock and hotwire it the old fashioned way. But if you clone my keyless key fob and just unlock it and take off...that's offensive!

I'm fine with steroid use as well. Baseball was more exciting in the steroid era.
 
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...ts-rob-manfred-edict-protect-astros-beanballs
Frustration mounts over Rob Manfred's edict to protect Astros from beanballs.
espn

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28730993/cubs-jon-lester-blasts-commissioner-piece-metal-comment
Cubs' Jon Lester blasts commissioner for 'piece of metal' comment.
espn

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28731100/aaron-judge-astros-2017-title-cheated-earn-it
Aaron Judge on Astros' 2017 title: 'You cheated and you didn't earn it'.
espn
 
kalinecountry said:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...ts-rob-manfred-edict-protect-astros-beanballs
Frustration mounts over Rob Manfred's edict to protect Astros from beanballs.
espn

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28730993/cubs-jon-lester-blasts-commissioner-piece-metal-comment
Cubs' Jon Lester blasts commissioner for 'piece of metal' comment.
espn

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28731100/aaron-judge-astros-2017-title-cheated-earn-it
Aaron Judge on Astros' 2017 title: 'You cheated and you didn't earn it'.
espn
Click to expand...

Lester needs to STFU. There is nothing wrong with what Manfred said if you read the entire article. Here is the part where he said "piece of metal"

"The idea of an asterisk or asking for a piece of metal back seems like a futile act," Manfred told ESPN of stripping Houston of the World Series title. "People will always know that something was different about the 2017 season, and whether we made that decision right or wrong, we undertook a thorough investigation, and had the intestinal fortitude to share the results of that investigation, even when those results were not very pretty."
 
tomdalton22 said:
I think it's pretty funny. People get on their high horse about what the Astros stealing signs but stealing signs is an acceptable practice. They just didn't like how they were stealing them. Does that make any sense? That's like saying it's ok to steal my car as long as you pick the lock and hotwire it the old fashioned way. But if you clone my keyless key fob and just unlock it and take off...that's offensive!
Click to expand...

Poor analogy, because stealing a car is illegal no matter what method is used.

Sign stealing on-the-field has long been acceptable and there is no rule against sign stealing in-and-of-itself.
But using electronic methods to relay those signs is entirely different. First and foremost, ..it is specifically against the rules. What this means is that the Astros broke the rules and had an unfair advantage against other teams that did not break the rules.
Again, there was/is a very clear rule against using electronics to relay those in real-time to the hitters in the batting box.
 
tomdalton22 said:
Lester needs to STFU. There is nothing wrong with what Manfred said if you read the entire article. Here is the part where he said "piece of metal"

"The idea of an asterisk or asking for a piece of metal back seems like a futile act," Manfred told ESPN of stripping Houston of the World Series title. "People will always know that something was different about the 2017 season, and whether we made that decision right or wrong, we undertook a thorough investigation, and had the intestinal fortitude to share the results of that investigation, even when those results were not very pretty."
Click to expand...

Not a doubt in my mind that Manfred (along with team owners') would have already swept this under the rug if not for video out there that proved the 'banging-on-the-trash-can'.
Not a doubt in my mind that the Red Sox also cheated during their 2018 season ..and other seasons. In fact, they were caught cheating in 2016 ..and were the main culprits into Manfred ultimately issuing the rule against using electronic methods to relay signs in real time to the field. .. .. .. .. The bigger difference between the Astros and the Red Sox is that the Red Sox did not blatantly bang on a trash can where regular folks could post clear evidence upon social media. .. .. .. .. Therefore, not a doubt in my mind that the upcoming report on the Red Sox cheating will not be as revealing nor as harsh as the report against the Astros.
The Astros biggest mistake in 'cheating' was banging on the trash can. But again, ..Red Sox were probably just as guilty except they did it far less conspicuously.

Manfred is a puppet for the owners. Nothing more ..nothing less.

This story will not go away. Will get very exciting when MLB decides to suspend a pitcher for deliberately throwing at an Astro hitter. Moreover, if it happens quickly enough and often enough early-on during the upcoming season ..its going to work in the Astro hitters favor because they will feel emboldened to crowd the plate much more than they otherwise might because they will have the umpires and MLB protecting them.
 
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/mlb-astros-dug-own-hole-rob-manfred-mlbpa-union.html
How MLB & The Astros Dug Their Own Hole.
MLBTR

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...nfred-handling-astros-scandal-fix-sake-sports
LeBron James calls out Rob Manfred over handling of Astros scandal: 'Fix this for the sake of sports'.
espn

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2020/0...-of-houston-astros-sign-stealing-scandal.html
LeBron James calls out MLB’s Rob Manfred over Astros sign-stealing scandal.
Mlive
 
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The reactions by the Commish, the Astros, some of the opposing players, and many fans ..kind of reminds me of this:

A Narcissist's Mindset:
That did not happen,
but if it did..
It wasn't that bad,
although, if it was (that bad)..
It's not a big deal,
But if it was..
I did not mean it,
but if I did..
It was your fault.
 
tomdalton22 said:
there certainly wasn't this kind of outrage when it was well known that guys were using steroids. My guess is because most of the players knew many of their own teammates were doing them (or they themselves were doing them)
Click to expand...

They all knew including Bud Selig and MLB officials. They had to get the fans back after the strike and no world series for the first time ever. Not even the axis of evil during WWII stopped the WS. Bud Selig is now in the hof and a major cog in allowing it to go on. Word came out after how many were cheating.
 
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