2021 Free Agency and Cap Cuts

[LKP]

We signed Quentin Dunbar

Top 3 cb in 2019. Had off field incident in that robbery but got off

Poor play in Seattle last year

Solid vet depth

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2021...ons-sign-cb-quinton-dunbar-to-1-year-contract

 

[detroit1811]

Top 3 cb in 2019. Had off field incident in that robbery but got off

Poor play in Seattle last year

Solid vet depth

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2021...ons-sign-cb-quinton-dunbar-to-1-year-contract

I know I sound like a slappy, but I really like the moves they are making. Most of the moves they are making just make sense. Dunbar is going to be cheap, has shown very high end play, and is still young enough to re-sign next year for another 2-3 years if he works out. If he sucks then it isn?t hard to move on.

Just saying a top 5 or Okudah/AO/Dunbar/Elder/Ford isn?t looking that bad. I think odds are very high one of Okudah/AO play like a solid starter this year. If they both don?t Dunbar is waiting in the wings to push them and step in if needed. Elder was a decent nickel last year, but has limited experience. I also thought Ford has held up well in spot appearances and makes nice back end depth. I think a mid round CB who profiles as a slot or even adding another vet like Nelson/Poole/Robey Coleman rounds out the group nicely.

 

[LKP]

I know I sound like a slappy, but I really like the moves they are making. Most of the moves they are making just make sense. Dunbar is going to be cheap, has shown very high end play, and is still young enough to re-sign next year for another 2-3 years if he works out. If he sucks then it isn?t hard to move on.

Just saying a top 5 or Okudah/AO/Dunbar/Elder/Ford isn?t looking that bad. I think odds are very high one of Okudah/AO play like a solid starter this year. If they both don?t Dunbar is waiting in the wings to push them and step in if needed. Elder was a decent nickel last year, but has limited experience. I also thought Ford has held up well in spot appearances and makes nice back end depth. I think a mid round CB who profiles as a slot or even adding another vet like Nelson/Poole/Robey Coleman rounds out the group nicely.

Potential cbs for sure. Can go cb day 2 or focus on other areas. Good to have options. If they sign Willie ParkS at safety it is wide open to add talent but not need any for 2021. Wr and LB would be biggest need then and pick 7 is one of those most likely unless Sewell falls. So then day 2 is not having to get anything but have 3 picks to add talent.

 

[detroit1811]

Potential cbs for sure. Can go cb day 2 or focus on other areas. Good to have options. If they sign Willie ParkS at safety it is wide open to add talent but not need any for 2021. Wr and LB would be biggest need then and pick 7 is one of those most likely unless Sewell falls. So then day 2 is not having to get anything but have 3 picks to add talent.

I personally think Will Parks is a #3/#4 safety. He has some starting experience and was replacement level. I think he is more like a Tavon Wilson type. Would love to add another vet in FA even if we signed Parks and draft a guy in the top three rounds.

Sign Hooker and Parks and draft a guy like Richie Grant in the 3rd. Sign Robey-Coleman and we have a nice mix of vets and young guys in the secondary.

I have no confidence in Harris to ever develop into anything.

 

[mhughes0021]

As of right now the secondary is much worse than last year. Them turning into anything worthwhile is 100% dependant on okudah and amani both improving 120%...aka not likely. Elder and Dunbar... can't say they are any better than Coleman, trufant.

We have 0 safeties worth a crap.

 

[Mitchrapp]

As of right now the secondary is much worse than last year. Them turning into anything worthwhile is 100% dependant on okudah and amani both improving 120%...aka not likely. Elder and Dunbar... can't say they are any better than Coleman, trufant.

We have 0 safeties worth a crap.

Much worse? The point with all these signees is that just by accident they should be better. Trufant played 6 games and was awful. Coleman, lol.

 

[tomdalton22]

Okudah is too talented to not be better this year. CB might be the most difficult transition from college to pro. Plus, no OTA's or off season last year.

I don't know if he ends up being an elite CB, but I think he will end up being good.

 

[LKP]

Ways they can be better
Experience
Coaching
Health
Pass Rush
Better Safety and LB coverage (CBs aren't only ones to cover)
Okudah and AO have talent no doubt. Harness it put them in a scheme that can succeed

Coleman is a better nickel than Elder. But Elder can be a solid player.
I like Dunbar 100% over Roberts as the 4th CB

Trufant was hurt and played on a bad hamstring in like 5 of 6 games. He has talent and did well with Atlanta but not here. Bears are taking a risk on him and dumping Fuller. Coleman in Miami now

Secondary is now priced much cheaper as Trufant and Coleman were on bigger deals. That alone is a win even if they suck, at least they weren't overpaid. 2021 can be competitive but don't have the game changers to be good. I learned that the hard way last year.

If you only have a bunch of good/solid, the coaching better be amazing because otherwise you need game changers

 

[detroit1811]

Ways they can be better
Experience
Coaching
Health
Pass Rush
Better Safety and LB coverage (CBs aren't only ones to cover)
Okudah and AO have talent no doubt. Harness it put them in a scheme that can succeed

Coleman is a better nickel than Elder. But Elder can be a solid player.
I like Dunbar 100% over Roberts as the 4th CB

Trufant was hurt and played on a bad hamstring in like 5 of 6 games. He has talent and did well with Atlanta but not here. Bears are taking a risk on him and dumping Fuller. Coleman in Miami now

Secondary is now priced much cheaper as Trufant and Coleman were on bigger deals. That alone is a win even if they suck, at least they weren't overpaid. 2021 can be competitive but don't have the game changers to be good. I learned that the hard way last year.

If you only have a bunch of good/solid, the coaching better be amazing because otherwise you need game changers

I think the part about game changers is definitely true. Right now we don't have a single player who fits that bill. I love Hockenson, but he isn't a game changer. I think Swift and Okudah have the talent to be, but they are not there right now.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Of course we don't. We're the Lions and we stink. The game changers will hopefully come. But it will take awhile.

 

[mhughes0021]

We still have a draft and FA scraps to sift through...but as it stands right now this defense is worse than last years. Same dline...providing the same lackluster pass rush. Worse LBs....we only have 1 starting calibur LB on the roster still. Worse secondary...yes, hopefully their health improves this year....but talent wise they are worse.

Yet we still are talking about drafting a WR....its amazing lol.

We will see real quickly how much of a dumbass Holmes is after this draft.

 

[dtroitlionsfan951]

We still have a draft and FA scraps to sift through...but as it stands right now this defense is worse than last years. Same dline...providing the same lackluster pass rush. Worse LBs....we only have 1 starting calibur LB on the roster still. Worse secondary...yes, hopefully their health improves this year....but talent wise they are worse.

Yet we still are talking about drafting a WR....its amazing lol.

We will see real quickly how much of a dumbass Holmes is after this draft.

I don?t agree, Coleman and Trufant didn?t play much and didn?t play very good at all. I think just having competent coaching could switch our defensive performance around a little bit. The talent in the front 7 isn?t much, but I think oruwariye, okudah, and Tracy walker are nice youthful pieces in the secondary. IF the lions coaches use them appropriately I think you could see a big jump from the secondary. We still have a draft to add a little talent. I?ve always said it basically that next season will be the crucial off-season. This year is just adding some talent and retooling. We were terrible and we lost Stafford, kenny, and Marvin. So the little bit of talent we did have went away without real replacement and no cap space to fill the void.

 

[LKP]

We still have a draft and FA scraps to sift through...but as it stands right now this defense is worse than last years. Same dline...providing the same lackluster pass rush. Worse LBs....we only have 1 starting calibur LB on the roster still. Worse secondary...yes, hopefully their health improves this year....but talent wise they are worse.

Yet we still are talking about drafting a WR....its amazing lol.

We will see real quickly how much of a dumbass Holmes is after this draft.

It's a two year rebuild. WR a huge need and some absolute ballers there.

Dline is better. Flowers healthy, Brockers added, Okwara back, J Okwara healthy. Plus better coaching

LB I would say is the same. Collins and Anzalone have a low bar to jump over. Can find a good one on day 2 as well. LBs can do well

AO and Okudah is basically an improved version from 2020. Walker could revert back to his better form. Still need a safety and nickel is downgraded but 4th CB is better with Dunbar.

Taking a WR would not make him a dumbass. Also one pick wouldn't define any GM. Plus it is a collaboration. Holmes, Dorsey, Campbell, Agnew etc. Parsons has questions too. And someone has to be willing to trade for a trade down. Pick 7 not the best spot it seems this year with Carolina, Miami and San Fran making moves already

It's pre draft. RELAX

Coaching alone, which everyone and their mother on this board was clamoring was so bad last year, coaching alone can make the defense improve. Not a guarantee but likely to improve the defense even with similar talent

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Of course we don't. We're the Lions and we stink. The game changers will hopefully come. But it will take awhile.

If they take Ja'Marr Chase or Waddle, it will take exactly 7 selections.

 

[mhughes0021]

I think the FA moves will slow down at this point until post draft. They may get a safety if they get terms they like.

Post FA glaring needs:
S starter for Will Harris

LB starter over Tavaii and upgrade over Anzalone.

WR upgrade. Signing Tyrell and Breshad on the outside means this pick can be a slot. This is a DEEP slot WR draft. Waddle, Smith?, Toney, Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, Eskridge, Dazz Newsome, Amari Rodgers, Tutu Atwell. You could wait until your 3rd rd pick and get a quality starter.

RT/RG - With Vatai's flexibility this could be an upgrade at either spot. If you like Crosby at RT over Vatai then it should be a guard. If you like Vatai at RG but want an upgrade over Crosby then you need a LT. Either way the right side of our line needs to be improved.

Now, we havent seen Holmes draft yet. If hes building for the future you could see a QB picked at 7. I dont think he does that...his first move as GM is to shake Goffs confidence? Dorsey has done it multiple times.

That 7 pick will be valuable if theres 1 QB left on the board. Washington, DEN or NE could make a strong push. With so many holes moving down imo is still the best option...getting an additional 2nd rd pick is another starter for you.

 

[LKP]

I think the FA moves will slow down at this point until post draft. They may get a safety if they get terms they like.

Post FA glaring needs:
S starter for Will Harris

LB starter over Tavaii and upgrade over Anzalone.

WR upgrade. Signing Tyrell and Breshad on the outside means this pick can be a slot. This is a DEEP slot WR draft. Waddle, Smith?, Toney, Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, Eskridge, Dazz Newsome, Amari Rodgers, Tutu Atwell. You could wait until your 3rd rd pick and get a quality starter.

RT/RG - With Vatai's flexibility this could be an upgrade at either spot. If you like Crosby at RT over Vatai then it should be a guard. If you like Vatai at RG but want an upgrade over Crosby then you need a LT. Either way the right side of our line needs to be improved.

Now, we havent seen Holmes draft yet. If hes building for the future you could see a QB picked at 7. I dont think he does that...his first move as GM is to shake Goffs confidence? Dorsey has done it multiple times.

That 7 pick will be valuable if theres 1 QB left on the board. Washington, DEN or NE could make a strong push. With so many holes moving down imo is still the best option...getting an additional 2nd rd pick is another starter for you.

Agree with your needs. Tavai is far from the starter. 4-2-5 mostly. Collins is the MIKE now. J Okwara could be rush LB and Anzalone cover guy. Campbell was talking and made Tavai seem like an afterthought. Reeves Mabin is ahead of him now and has more potential in this scheme. He can cover and tackle plus special teams demon. But I would be shocked if they didn't get a LB by day 2 at least

 

[Mitchrapp]

If they take Ja'Marr Chase or Waddle, it will take exactly 7 selections.

Then our rebuild has bombed.

 

[LKP]

Then our rebuild has bombed.

LOL

1) they could be really good players and a playmaker and WR is a huge need especially long term
2) it's not a one year rebuild
3) one pick doesn't define a rebuild, that would be entirely against the definition of rebuild if you only need one pick it's not a rebuild
4) Lions have a ton of 1st round picks coming up
4) every good team currently has good WRs. KC might not have used 1sts but they paid Hill and Kelce big money. Tampa Mike Evans and Godwin now franchised for big money, Packers Davante was a 2nd but again he got paid and is about to get paid even more, Bills traded a 1st for Diggs and big money. We don't have a Henry to be the Titans but they used a high 1st on Corey Davis and 2nd on Brown
5) a good cheap WR for 4-5 years, heck 6 if you tag him would be a good thing given the market
6) Would Lance/Fields have enough with Williams/Perriman/day 2 WR/Hock and Swift or just keep Goff in the fire year 1
7) Is Parsons a game changer? I liked him at Penn State, he produced for sure and he is athletic but NFL is a different ball game. Parsons isn't going to magically fix the defense alone though he will help of course. Plus opt out and character concerns too.

WR at pick 7
Parsons
Sewell
QB

Would all be a step in the right direction. However, the QB might not be necessary if Goff regains form and has support. And Fields/Lance have the biggest bust potential IMO over the WRs/Parsons

 

[tomdalton22]

Then our rebuild has bombed.

first, stop calling it a re-build. That term implies that the team was good at some time in the past :tup:

This regime is starting from scratch. There is virtually no high end talent on this team. When I say high end talent, I mean "game changing" talent...all pro type players. Pick 3 last year should have produced a player like that. Pick 7 this year should produce a player like that. Their top 5 pick next year should produce a player like that. It really doesn't matter what position...if the player is a game changer, it will be a good pick. WR, DB, DL, LB, OL, or QB...the Lions need a game changer at all of those positions.

 

[LKP]

first, stop calling it a re-build. That term implies that the team was good at some time in the past :tup:

This regime is starting from scratch. There is virtually no high end talent on this team. When I say high end talent, I mean "game changing" talent...all pro type players. Pick 3 last year should have produced a player like that. Pick 7 this year should produce a player like that. Their top 5 pick next year should produce a player like that. It really doesn't matter what position...if the player is a game changer, it will be a good pick. WR, DB, DL, LB, OL, or QB...the Lions need a game changer at all of those positions.

Agree. There is more than one way to build a good team but game changers are what is needed

I'd argue Tavai lost in coverage changes the game for the Lions quite a bit.

Can Hock become a Kittle, can Swift become a Kamara can Okudah be a shut down all pro corner. But the Lions need al lthat and more with these next few drafts. I know Flowers, Okwara and Brockers can all be good players. Collins too. Hand when healthy, big if. Keeping adding good at least

Good coaching can mask lack of game changers if you have enough good/solid players though.