2023 NFL Draft

[mhughes0021]

Question for everyone - would you take Lamar and Ramsey in exchange for Goff, both our 1st rounders, both 2nd rounders and a next year 3rd?

No.

I'd do Ramsey for 18.

Most id do for lamar is goff, 2nd this year, 1st next year. But that's hard to say cause he doesn't have a contract.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Lol ok man. Whatever it is, they found a way.

Ian Rapoport
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The #Saints & Derek Carr agreed on a 4-yr deal for $150M with $100M in total guarantees, per me & @MikeGarafolo. He gets $70M effectively fully guaranteed ($60M at signing, another $10M in Year 3 vesting after Year 1). Carr structures his deal to accommodate Saints? cap issues.

That last sentence is pretty damning to your theory.

You point out the signings......but seem to pay no attention to the really good players that get cut for cap reasons.

Eric Kendricks got cut from the Vikings. He's a damn good LB. If the cap is no issue why did they cut him? He's CLEARLY better than any other LB on that team, right?

The cap is a dance. Watch how many moves the Saints have to make in the next few days to accomidate their move.

 

[tomdalton22]

Lol ok man. Whatever it is, they found a way.

they haven't finished yet. They are still $23M over the cap.

They are one of those teams that just pushes money down the line. That will come back to bite them in the ass at some point.

I guess it makes a little sense if you are chasing a SB. The Saints aren't SB contenders.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Question for everyone - would you take Lamar and Ramsey in exchange for Goff, both our 1st rounders, both 2nd rounders and a next year 3rd?

No. If I were a GM of any team.....I would NEVER make a move that seriously affected BOTH top end draft capital and have major long term cap implications. Never works for long term success. Rams are living proof of that.

One or the other. Never both

 

[tomdalton22]

Question for everyone - would you take Lamar and Ramsey in exchange for Goff, both our 1st rounders, both 2nd rounders and a next year 3rd?

no

first, I think Goff is better suited for this offense than Lamar. I don't think I would want Lamar on the Lions period. Not a fan of his passing ability and because he runs so much he has been injury prone

As far as Ramsey...the only reason the Rams appear to be interested in trading him is because they are having cap issues (which you say don't exist)

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I didn't like the trade because I didn't want to rebuild with an overpriced vet. I wanted to start over with a rookie contract. 2021 draft would have been fields or Mac Jones. Meh... probably best we didn't take either of them. Not to mention we wouldn't have had Sewell.

2022 was probably the worst draft for qbs in history. Kenny Pickett was first off the board at 20. Don't really want him.

So in hindsight getting Goff ended up being an insurance policy that paid in full. Not cause he's great... but because we weren't going to get great from anywhere else.

I really thought Zack Wilson would be good. I guess he still could be, but he's been awful to this point.

 

[LKP]

Lamar injury risk and wanting of guaranteed, huge cap numbers and loss of draft capital. Everyone here is saying no thank you

If we didn't have a top 5 offense, maybe, but we have a top 5 offense with Jared Goff and draft capital to build the defense. The Lions need the defense built (DT, CB1,nickel CB Mike LB at least).

Pick 18 for Ramsey sure (and probably a new deal for him)
3 picks at least and huge cap space for a downgrade in Lamar, huge injury risk. No thank you as the Lions would have a hard time building up the defense then

The Lions have lost so much because their defense has been garbage pretty much every year but 2014. And then Dallas was just flat out aloud to hold in that Wild card game (plus the DPI pick up). 90s teams had decent ones. 2016 D was average but forced turnover at crucial times. 2011 good (and forced 27 turnovers) until major across the board secondary injuries Thanksgiving on

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Lamar injury risk and wanting of guaranteed, huge cap numbers and loss of draft capital. Everyone here is saying no thank you

If we didn't have a top 5 offense, maybe, but we have a top 5 offense with Jared Goff and draft capital to build the defense. The Lions need the defense built (DT, CB1,nickel CB Mike LB at least).

Pick 18 for Ramsey sure (and probably a new deal for him)
3 picks at least and huge cap space for a downgrade in Lamar, huge injury risk. No thank you as the Lions would have a hard time building up the defense then

The Lions have lost so much because their defense has been garbage pretty much every year but 2014. And then Dallas was just flat out aloud to hold in that Wild card game (plus the DPI pick up). 90s teams had decent ones. 2016 D was average but forced turnover at crucial times. 2011 good (and forced 27 turnovers) until major across the board secondary injuries Thanksgiving on

They've lost so much because their draft history since 1989 has been absolute dog shit. I mean, if you really look over every year.....there are SO MANY misses on players in every round. And not very many of those misses went on to find success elsewhere.....they just weren't good NFL players. Way too many first round picks that were average players. 2nd round picks that were fringe NFL players and 3-7th round picks that were CFL/XFL/USFL guys.

You simply cannot find success on either side of the ball when you continue to bring in players that are not NFL caliber. Nobody could.

 

[LKP]

They've lost so much because their draft history since 1989 has been absolute dog shit. I mean, if you really look over every year.....there are SO MANY misses on players in every round. And not very many of those misses went on to find success elsewhere.....they just weren't good NFL players. Way too many first round picks that were average players. 2nd round picks that were fringe NFL players and 3-7th round picks that were CFL/XFL/USFL guys.

You simply cannot find success on either side of the ball when you continue to bring in players that are not NFL caliber. Nobody could.

Pre Holmes sure. Lots of problems on offense and defense. Offense a little better

31 seasons 1992-2022

6 top 12 offenses in PPG (2022, 2017, 2011, 1997 (and still lost to Bucs), 1995, 1994) All top 7 or better

3 top 12 defenses in PPG (2014 3rd (Cowboys fiasco), 2000 11th (and then Millen tore it down), 1997 10th (and still lost to Bucs)

Holmes/BJ seems to have fixed the offense. Top 5

1991 11th ranked offense and 9th ranked defense and still got blasted by Washington in Champ game

Defense needs to be next. Need both or at least above average defense in 2023 to finally win this damn division

 

[mhughes0021]

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
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Follow
The #Saints & Derek Carr agreed on a 4-yr deal for $150M with $100M in total guarantees, per me & @MikeGarafolo. He gets $70M effectively fully guaranteed ($60M at signing, another $10M in Year 3 vesting after Year 1). Carr structures his deal to accommodate Saints? cap issues.

That last sentence is pretty damning to your theory.

You point out the signings......but seem to pay no attention to the really good players that get cut for cap reasons.

Eric Kendricks got cut from the Vikings. He's a damn good LB. If the cap is no issue why did they cut him? He's CLEARLY better than any other LB on that team, right?

The cap is a dance. Watch how many moves the Saints have to make in the next few days to accomidate their move.

Kendricks would be a huge upgrade for us. Having Minnesotas qb of the defense and hiring John fox. That'd give us great Intel on min and chi.

 

[grandy]

In the current era, I'd argue that the draft is the only way to build a sustainable winning franchise. Prior to the rookie cap, the value gap between top-end rookies and free agents wasn't as significant, the draft still mattered but spending money in free agency still had some viability. The value of hitting on draft picks today is simply unmatched. It's also a snowball effect, the better you are at drafting, the better your team performs and the better your cap situation will be. Winning teams are more attractive to free agents and having a bunch of guys on rookie contracts will free up the space to supplement the team via free agency.

I'm hoping Holmes has this figured out and we never have the need to spend big in FA, using cap space to primarily re-sign good draft picks. It's still possible to have brief success spending money, but I can't see that being a sustainable model in today's NFL, you can only kick the can down the road so much.

 

[LKP]

Geno 3 years 105 million

Lions have bargain with Goff

 

[tomdalton22]

Geno 3 years 105 million

Lions have bargain with Goff

that's how it always works, especially with QBs.

Goff signed his contract in 2019. A lot of QBs have signed new, higher, contracts since then. It will continue.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2023/quarterback/cap-hit/

LOL at the Browns!!

 

[LKP]

that's how it always works, especially with QBs.

Goff signed his contract in 2019. A lot of QBs have signed new, higher, contracts since then. It will continue.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2023/quarterback/cap-hit/

LOL at the Browns!!

Agree with that. Just saying would be a good idea to keep the bargain we have with Goff for the next two years. Which we will. May or may not use a Round 1 pick on a QB for the future. Can't wait to see

Lions have been poor/average on defense for all but 4 of the last 32 seasons. Time to build the defense with a GM that can seem to hit on picks better with a coaching staff that can develop them too.

Pick 6 defense, pick 18 defense, Round 2 more defense unless a Guard/tackle combo gives really good value

Re-sign Jamaal, re-sign Chark and let's go win the North while building for the future with a strong defense

 

[tomdalton22]

Agree with that. Just saying would be a good idea to keep the bargain we have with Goff for the next two years. Which we will. May or may not use a Round 1 pick on a QB for the future. Can't wait to see

Lions have been poor/average on defense for all but 4 of the last 32 seasons. Time to build the defense with a GM that can seem to hit on picks better with a coaching staff that can develop them too.

Pick 6 defense, pick 18 defense, Round 2 more defense unless a Guard/tackle combo gives really good value

Re-sign Jamaal, re-sign Chark and let's go win the North while building for the future with a strong defense

here is where the Lions are going to have a very difficult decision on their hands.

Let's say the Lions go 10-7 and make the playoffs. Goff puts up top 10-12 numbers again. The Lions are going to have to decide if they want to stick with him or move on? By then the Lions are going to have to pay him $40-50M per year.

 

[LKP]

here is where the Lions are going to have a very difficult decision on their hands.

Let's say the Lions go 10-7 and make the playoffs. Goff puts up top 10-12 numbers again. The Lions are going to have to decide if they want to stick with him or move on? By then the Lions are going to have to pay him $40-50M per year.

Goff is under contract for 2024

Also, you can structure any new deals with outs and backloads too.

Derek Carr got "4 years 150 million" 37.5 per

7.2, 35.7, 40.7, 55.7 cap hits and 5.7 void 5th year

Lions could give that contract to Goff prior to 2025 and have an out after 2026 too. Or draft a QB in 2024 or 2025 draft too

If Goff plays well again in 2023, 3 more seasons of Goff could happen but still have an out if 2024 goes bad if they wait on that season/following offseason

 

[tomdalton22]

Goff is under contract for 2024

Also, you can structure any new deals with outs and backloads too.

Derek Carr got "4 years 150 million" 37.5 per

7.2, 35.7, 40.7, 55.7 cap hits and 5.7 void 5th year

Lions could give that contract to Goff prior to 2025 and have an out after 2026 too. Or draft a QB in 2024 or 2025 draft too

If Goff plays well again in 2023, 3 more seasons of Goff could happen but still have an out if 2024 goes bad if they wait on that season/following offseason

I know what they "can" do, it will just be a very difficult decision.

 

[mhughes0021]

While we're in an improving position with our roster.... we're still not at a very good spot. We're still in a spot that we got gifted a #6 pick and we don't want to use it on the qb of the future because we have too many other holes to fill. That's not a good spot to be in.. and not what truly good teams that are ready to be contenders do.

Holmes needs to decide if goff is the future of this team long term. If his answer is a no... then he absolutely should be selecting qb to groom in this draft or next. Only he knows that.

 

[LKP]

While we're in an improving position with our roster.... we're still not at a very good spot. We're still in a spot that we got gifted a #6 pick and we don't want to use it on the qb of the future because we have too many other holes to fill. That's not a good spot to be in.. and not what truly good teams that are ready to be contenders do.

Holmes needs to decide if goff is the future of this team long term. If his answer is a no... then he absolutely should be selecting qb to groom in this draft or next. Only he knows that.

QB has to be worth it. Is Levis or Richardson worth it. How is 2024 class looking? And where will the Lions pick in 2024 if they go say 10-7 and make playoffs. Now you are talking about trading up big time to get a QB which is even more draft capital. So QB does make sense too if you want to use just one pick. Also need to have some faith in Holmes to build the defense with pick 18, two Round 2 picks, FAs and Round 3. Holmes put himself in a position to be able to use pick 6 on a QB too.

To me, Goff is good (7th QB rating backs that up) and worth just building the defense to me over Levis/Richardson. Stroud I would consider at 6 if he falls. Holmes is rolling with Goff in 2023 is what we know so far.

Going to be interesting. FA will fill some defensive needs first and a RB need I think.

Lions can have a top 12 defense if they re-sign Cominsky/maybe a vet DT like Sheldon Rankins, develop their young players, continue final 10 game success, draft a CB at 18 and LB Round 2 and still have Round 2 Vikings and Round 3 for other talent to add. Maybe a nickel CB and a guard/tackle depth combo with Round 2 and 3

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Agree with that. Just saying would be a good idea to keep the bargain we have with Goff for the next two years. Which we will. May or may not use a Round 1 pick on a QB for the future. Can't wait to see

Lions have been poor/average on defense for all but 4 of the last 32 seasons. Time to build the defense with a GM that can seem to hit on picks better with a coaching staff that can develop them too.

Pick 6 defense, pick 18 defense, Round 2 more defense unless a Guard/tackle combo gives really good value

Re-sign Jamaal, re-sign Chark and let's go win the North while building for the future with a strong defense

Jamaal needs to be resigned and I think that happens pretty quickly. Chark is a no from me. He'll want a 3-4 year deal and I think we can bring someone in that has a similar skill set for a LOT cheaper.