Article On Lions Cap Trouble

[zoombabyzoom]

Salary cap hell does not exist period now-days. So many ways to get around it.

 

[lp4ever41]

[quote="lp4ever41":apdsc8fh]
How are we using $122 million?

http://www.thenetrat.com/LionsCap2012.xls
Doesn't include Calvin's $4.5 million bonus, but still, there's no way the Lions are currently at $122 million.

Now

 

[lionskillpack]

Link to that site? Slick those numbers they are projecting. I don't know how they are projecting that much with only 37 players but as of right now the Lions are not over. If you project out 14 people signed then they could be over but like I said a Calvin deal, restructure or Corey Williams cut fixes that for Tulloch and Avril back. Lions have to get Calvin done and then work on Avril and Tulloch with smart contracts but they have some room.

 

[lions2011]

we'll see I guess....the Lions dont release numbers so it's all conjecture I guess.

Calvin needs to restructure first then I guess we'll see how hard they go after Avril.

Staffords agent must be wetting his pants though...Calvins ceiling in guarantees is going to be the starting point for Staffords negotiations.

 

[lp4ever41]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/cap-hit/
This says we're ok. Except, again, it doesn't have Calvin's $4.5 million

 

[lions2011]

Link to that site? Slick those numbers they are projecting. I don't know how they are projecting that much with only 37 players but as of right now the Lions are not over. If you project out 14 people signed then they could be over but like I said a Calvin deal, restructure or Corey Williams cut fixes that for Tulloch and Avril back. Lions have to get Calvin done and then work on Avril and Tulloch with smart contracts but they have some room.

it is a projected number.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Stafford's and Calvin deals will be huge, but they can just keep pushing the money back over and over. Till they are both 36 or older and then its time to rebuild.

 

[lionskillpack]

I'm with you Slick that the Lions need work but it isn't a cut everybody situation. Avril and Tulloch can be retained. Lions better be damn smart too and not overpay for Avril because next year Delmas,Durant,Houston, Levy, Sammie Lee Hill and Gosder hit free agency and Calvin can be cap friendlier in year 1 but sooner or later it will start to rise again.

The old CBA is so much junk and it screws the Lions. Comparing Newtons contract to Staffords makes me sick.

 

[lp4ever41]

we'll see I guess....the Lions dont release numbers so it's all conjecture I guess.

Calvin needs to restructure first then I guess we'll see how hard they go after Avril.

Staffords agent must be wetting his pants though...Calvins ceiling in guarantees is going to be the starting point for Staffords negotiations.

Yeah, if they want to add players/keep Avril and Tulloch, Calvin MUST be restructured. I could see Williams offered a paycut before they just release him. Plus, if they resign Avril and Tulloch, they can structure it so first-year salary hit is small. Teams always do that. Escalating contracts.

 

[lionskillpack]

The beauty is though Mayhew can draft so that's how the Lions can restock. Corey Williams may already be replaced with Fairley. Calvin, and the many other weapons would aid whenever Burleson gets the axe (maybe next year). Enjoy Hanson while lasts but a kicker is a kicker to me. DE we'll see if Avril is long term but Mayhew will need to draft another one soon to replace KVB along with LT and starting CB. Next two drafts, thats hopeuflly 6 cheap players in Rounds 1-3 that can contribute but most likely only 4 good to solid players and hopefully a random late rounder that pans out assuming Mayhew continues to draft well.

 

[detroit1811]

This is a site I typically use for contract details its always seemed pretty accurate

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/cap-hit/

They have us at a little over 95mil, but for some reason KVB wasn't added in so I'm guessing thats a mistake so it would be a little over 100mil (assuming they are correct). Now they didn't add any projected contracts for our ERFA or RFA so obviously that will go up too. With their numbers though say they Calvin is only about 18mil this year so I'm assuming they didn't update it since he hit the escalators so add another 5mil to that and they would have around the same numbers as netrat.

Regardless I'm not too worried there are always ways to get around things like that. Now because of it we might not be big spenders in FA, but we won't have to just sit back and do nothing and let our players walk.

Calvin is most likely re-signing and should knock off at least 10mil in cap space this year. lionskillpack already mentioned Suh restructuring, and IMO Corey Williams is gonna be traded somewhere this off-season. Those few things alone should save close to 20mil in cap space. There are also players who I'm sure will be asked to take a pay cut (KVB, Burleson, Raiola, Hanson, and Peterman). Now I know that they can refuse it, but I'm sure they'll ask and might even release one of two of them if they don't want to (would depend on the savings they would get obviously).

Throw all that together and I would say the Lions will have at least 30mil in available space (probably more). Now we will have to tender our RFA's so that will probably be around 5mil. We have to re-sign Tulloch, Avril, Hill, Wright(believe Lewand said they are talking so they want him back) and Backus which will probably be around 15-20mil in cap space (if they all re-sign). There are also some lower level guys we will want to bring back so trow in another 3mil or so. Lets just round that number and say they all re-sign thats 25mil.

My guess is that leaves us around 10mil or so for FA. Thats enough to sign a couple solid starters and the rest will be through draft and trades.

Quick question though is there any salary cap exceptions like last year?

 

[lionskillpack]

There is 1.5 credit(500 K for top 3 players) that can be used but must be paid back over time and I think a cap carryover from any space from last year(another 1.5 million).

 

[lions2011]

3 , 1.5 million exemptions for 2012.



http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6775674/nfl-salary-cap-scramble-interesting

 

[lionskillpack]

And you forgot draft picks. 4.5-5 million. Fairly was 1.7 cap number last year at pick 13, now it's pick 23 but one year of increase. So 1.5 million good guess for the Round 1 pick.

 

[lionskillpack]

Tenders will be for Levy,Hill and Hilliard. I think they'll let Palmer hit the open market and resign him cheaper. Original round tender 1.2 million, if they use a higher tender it will be more 1.7 or 2.2 for the highest.

 

[lionsFTW]

I agree with LKP. We're stretched very thin but there "should" be room to keep all the important pieces.

Eric Wright is probably gone. He's just one of those guys who's production can be matched by guys who come cheaper. That saves us, give or take a little, around 2mill. I believe we still have 1 year left on Chris Harris' deal that we picked up from Chicago. I think he gets the boot as hes making a good bit for a backup and it would cost us no hit. Eric Coleman probably wont be back. Its shaping up to look like Delmas and Speivey are penciled in as next years safety's. There will be next to nothing spent on our backups at Oline, Safety and LB. They will all be rookies or vet minimum players. Corey Williams is pretty much the one player we can be certain they will either trade or release and that saves us a another ~5mill.

The sad sad truth is that if we're able to rework a deal with Calvin we should be able to figure out a way to resign most of our starters but a shit ton of our backups are going to be rookies or vet minimum guys! We really need our current core to step up and progress next year.

Also there's still ways to save some money. I was talking about letting Shaun Hill walk a couple weeks ago. It's pretty sketchy to think about but re-signing Stanton will be a lot cheaper. Promote him (because he knows our system well), draft a rookie to groom on the last day of the draft, cross our fingers Staff doesn't get hurt and it saves us ~3mill. I mean cutting a guy like Will Heller saves us like ~1mill for fucks sake. There's tons of ways we can save a buck here or there that wont completely fuck us.

With that said though I do agree with Slick that re-working a ton of deals and pushing the money further down the road is risky and I really don't want to make a huge habit of it. We're not in cap hell yet, but if we don't watch out we could be in a year or two.

 

[lp4ever41]

People should remember that new contracts are usually light early on.

Lets say Avril signs a 5 year, $40 million dollar deal with a $20 million dollar signing bonus. The salaries, by year, would probably be something like $1 mil, $3 mil, $4 mil, $5 mil, $7 mil. Add a $4 mil cap hit per year for the signing bonus, and you see that his first year only hits $5 million, even though he's getting $8 million per year.

Deals usually work something like this. Houston counted $2 million last year, and $4 million this year.

This hurts the Lions in the future, but the cap should go up a lot in the future, and teams prepare for that.

So, signing guys like Avril and Tulloch won't hurt the Lions this year as much as people think. Both can easily be brought back if Calvin is restructured. Its not all gloom and doom.

 

[lions2011]

People should remember that new contracts are usually light early on.

Lets say Avril signs a 5 year, $40 million dollar deal with a $20 million dollar signing bonus. The salaries, by year, would probably be something like $1 mil, $3 mil, $4 mil, $5 mil, $7 mil. Add a $4 mil cap hit per year for the signing bonus, and you see that his first year only hits $5 million, even though he's getting $8 million per year.

Deals usually work something like this. Houston counted $2 million last year, and $4 million this year.

This hurts the Lions in the future, but the cap should go up a lot in the future, and teams prepare for that.

So, signing guys like Avril and Tulloch won't hurt the Lions this year as much as people think. Both can easily be brought back if Calvin is restructured. Its not all gloom and doom.

gimme the pep talk next year when Staffords agent wants 20 million a year.

 

[lionskillpack]

Wright,Hill,Harris and Coleman are already off the books. They are part of the 15 million under starting point so they offer no addition savings. One of Coleman,Harris is a possibility or a draft pick or if Ricardo Silva developed enough. Draft pick and Silva would be 500 K cheaper. However, I don't think any of them will be back. Shaun Hill depending how much he wants to be a backup. Stanton no thanks.

Calvin is priority number 1 and they are working on it. And it's a good thing for many reasons, helps with the cap and secures Calvin long term which is huge.

 

[lionskillpack]

People should remember that new contracts are usually light early on.

Lets say Avril signs a 5 year, $40 million dollar deal with a $20 million dollar signing bonus. The salaries, by year, would probably be something like $1 mil, $3 mil, $4 mil, $5 mil, $7 mil. Add a $4 mil cap hit per year for the signing bonus, and you see that his first year only hits $5 million, even though he's getting $8 million per year.

Deals usually work something like this. Houston counted $2 million last year, and $4 million this year.

This hurts the Lions in the future, but the cap should go up a lot in the future, and teams prepare for that.

So, signing guys like Avril and Tulloch won't hurt the Lions this year as much as people think. Both can easily be brought back if Calvin is restructured. Its not all gloom and doom.

gimme the pep talk next year when Staffords agent wants 20 million a year.

Tell him to look Aaron Rodgers contract right now and get back to us.