Avril Update

[cheeno]

Avril is right up there with wide 9 ends in tackles. Babin and Cole each have around 40, Avril 36. I can't remember seeing him blown off the ball in the run game, but if you can point out a couple instances refresh me.

Seems like every year there is a vogue guy to crap on. Trust me this ain't the guy.

 

[mhughes0021]

5th isnt the full truth with all the 3-4 teams nowadays....esp since they list Aldon Smith at LB. he played with his hand in the dirt the entire year.

1 Jared Allen, DE MIN
2 DeMarcus Ware, LB DAL
3 Jason Babin, DE PHI
4 Jason Pierre-Paul, DE NYG
5 Terrell Suggs, LB BAL
Aldon Smith, LB SF
7 Chris Long, DE STL
8 Tamba Hali, LB KC
9 Connor Barwin, LB HOU
Von Miller, LB DEN

11 Julius Peppers, DE CHI
Chris Clemons, DE SEA
Trent Cole, DE PHI
Antwan Barnes, LB SD
Cliff Avril, DE DET

 

[mhughes0021]

Avril is right up there with wide 9 ends in tackles. Babin and Cole each have around 40, Avril 36. I can't remember seeing him blown off the ball in the run game, but if you can point out a couple instances refresh me.

Seems like every year there is a vogue guy to crap on. Trust me this ain't the guy.

i crapped on him every off season and i still feel the same way...that position needs to be upgraded. Paying a guy with his production $10+ mil a yr isnt the answer.

 

[cheeno]

I was comparing 4-3 DEs to 4-3 DEs since that is the system we run but by statistically expanding the sample size, the proportion doesn't change much, ie 5th of 30 is relative to 11th of 60. Just so we are not being misleading.

 

[mhughes0021]

I was comparing 4-3 DEs to 4-3 DEs since that is the system we run but by statistically expanding the sample size, the proportion doesn't change much, ie 5th of 30 is relative to 11th of 60. Just so we are not being misleading.

So because Avril is tied with Peppers in sacks this year you think that makes him just as good?

 

[cheeno]

I was comparing 4-3 DEs to 4-3 DEs since that is the system we run but by statistically expanding the sample size, the proportion doesn't change much, ie 5th of 30 is relative to 11th of 60. Just so we are not being misleading.

So because Avril is tied with Peppers in sacks this year you think that makes him just as good?

This year? When you take into account ff statistically he was better. Just for comparison sake
Peppers stats 4th year in the league he was 25: 50 tackles 10.5 sacks 6 pdf 2 ff 0 td
Avrils 4th year also 25 years old: 36 tackles 11 sacks 4 pdf 6 ff 1 td.

Only 3 times in his 10 year career did Peppers have more than 11 sacks, his highest being 14.5 in 2008. Peppers is better against the run which is a legitimate criticism, but Avril doesn't have to be Peppers to justify a fair contract. He's better than Charles Johnson IMO, just pay the man.

 

[brewer228]

So because Avril is tied with Peppers in sacks this year you think that makes him just as good?

This year? When you take into account ff statistically he was better. Just for comparison sake
Peppers stats 4th year in the league he was 25: 50 tackles 10.5 sacks 6 pdf 2 ff 0 td
Avrils 4th year also 25 years old: 36 tackles 11 sacks 4 pdf 6 ff 1 td.

Only 3 times in his 10 year career did Peppers have more than 11 sacks, his highest being 14.5 in 2008. Peppers is better against the run which is a legitimate criticism, but Avril doesn't have to be Peppers to justify a fair contract. He's better than Charles Johnson IMO, just pay the man.

Peppers also faced double teams most of his career..something Avril never faces.

Let him walk and hopefully get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick for him. He's going to want too much money..we can't afford to give it to a one move guy.

He is a solid player, but the problem is we are a very good team now, we can't keep all our good players. We have to let some go.

 

[cheeno]

This year? When you take into account ff statistically he was better. Just for comparison sake
Peppers stats 4th year in the league he was 25: 50 tackles 10.5 sacks 6 pdf 2 ff 0 td
Avrils 4th year also 25 years old: 36 tackles 11 sacks 4 pdf 6 ff 1 td.

Only 3 times in his 10 year career did Peppers have more than 11 sacks, his highest being 14.5 in 2008. Peppers is better against the run which is a legitimate criticism, but Avril doesn't have to be Peppers to justify a fair contract. He's better than Charles Johnson IMO, just pay the man.

Peppers also faced double teams most of his career..something Avril never faces.

Let him walk and hopefully get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick for him. He's going to want too much money..we can't afford to give it to a one move guy.

He is a solid player, but the problem is we are a very good team now, we can't keep all our good players. We have to let some go.

Yeah Kris Jenkins and Mike Rucker in their prime were cheesecake to block, what a pair of bums. I bet Peppers was triple teamed on most plays. Btw does anyone realize how hard it is to beat a tackle one on one in the first place, they don't just let you run by.

So the guy you pick to let go is a 25 year old proven pass rusher, pretty sure a few GMs would differ with your guys choice.

 

[mhughes0021]

Avril got tossed around like a rag doll the entire NO game...usually landing on his ass about 15 yards passed the qb with one shove from the RT. It was bad...

 

[cheeno]

I think we've beat this into the ground. Time will tell I guess.

 

[motown1958]

Avril is still young and should continue to become a more well rounded pass rusher. Hopefully they can resign him because I believe he is on the verge of being a consistent top ten pass rusher. Very good DEs dont grow on trees and he was undersized and young when he came in to the league. No one thought he would be as good as he is so lets just let Mayhew do his thing.

 

[tonyballs]

Not good production? He was 5th in the league among D lineman!!! With dbs who couldn't cover a shock victim at an accident scene.

The problem is, 11 isn't GREAT for a guy who doesn't bother against the run. If he were a more complete DE, 11 would be outstanding. I want a more complete DE though.

You want a "more complete" DE? Who's that then? It sure as hell isn't the combination of Young and Jackson. Avril is a must re-sign if you ask me. Yeah, he's a one-trick pony, but that pony has improved on his passrushing skills EVERY year he's been here.

Don't understand how some people want him gone because he wants more money. It's fn comical actually. He came out and and said he wants "similar" money to Johnson and Hali, right? Doesn't mean he gets $10 mill per but he deserves to be rewarded. I don't want to see this "kid" walk and become a Packer (who desperately need a passrusher) or something and haunt us for the next 5-6 years. Do any of you?

 

[lp4ever41]

The problem is, 11 isn't GREAT for a guy who doesn't bother against the run. If he were a more complete DE, 11 would be outstanding. I want a more complete DE though.

You want a "more complete" DE? Who's that then? It sure as hell isn't the combination of Young and Jackson. Avril is a must re-sign if you ask me. Yeah, he's a one-trick pony, but that pony has improved on his passrushing skills EVERY year he's been here.

Don't understand how some people want him gone because he wants more money. It's fn comical actually. He came out and and said he wants "similar" money to Johnson and Hali, right? Doesn't mean he gets $10 mill per but he deserves to be rewarded. I don't want to see this "kid" walk and become a Packer (who desperately need a passrusher) or something and haunt us for the next 5-6 years. Do any of you?

If he wants $8 million a year, I'd love that. Sign him. $12 million? No. Our cap situation isn't great. You can't simply sign everyone, regardless of price. If he wants a reasonable deal, sign him. But they can't just sign him at any price.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The well rounded DE is bull#. Some of the top Ends aren't very good against the run. And as far as him running past the QB, all our Ends do that. That's what the wide 9 does, over pursue.

 

[mhughes0021]

i love how people keep bringing up that hes improved every year. The dude was out with injury basically every season before this one....ofcourse you improve your numbers when you play in more games and get more snaps.

His first 16 game year, he saw 1 v 1 the entire time....i think its obvious he should have got a career high in sacks and it was to be expected. For me its just a perfect time to sign/trade him....his value is the highest its going to get right now considering his age.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Honestly, I like the sign and trade option the best. I'm not discounting that is quite effective in his role, but like others have said, the money and reward don't really match up for us. We need DBs and O-linemen. We can replace Avril internally with Young and Jackson.

If we can get a good pick, that works. I bet there are a lot of 3-4 teams that could use a rush LB (which Avril would be perfect for).

 

[dannydiggler]

Honestly, I like the sign and trade option the best. I'm not discounting that is quite effective in his role, but like others have said, the money and reward don't really match up for us. We need DBs and O-linemen. We can replace Avril internally with Young and Jackson.

If we can get a good pick, that works. I bet there are a lot of 3-4 teams that could use a rush LB (which Avril would be perfect for).

Sign and trade? Is this the nba?

 

[mhughes0021]

Danny Diggler[/color]]

Honestly, I like the sign and trade option the best. I'm not discounting that is quite effective in his role, but like others have said, the money and reward don't really match up for us. We need DBs and O-linemen. We can replace Avril internally with Young and Jackson.

If we can get a good pick, that works. I bet there are a lot of 3-4 teams that could use a rush LB (which Avril would be perfect for).

Sign and trade? Is this the nba?

Mayhew, who says very little, has come out and said he wants to be active in the trade market this off season. Avril is basically the only piece we have thats worth a darn.

 

[lions2011]

Danny Diggler[/color]]

Sign and trade? Is this the nba?

Mayhew, who says very little, has come out and said he wants to be active in the trade market this off season. Avril is basically the only piece we have thats worth a darn.

Corey Williams is a decent trade piece.

 

[dannydiggler]

Danny Diggler[/color]]

Sign and trade? Is this the nba?

Mayhew, who says very little, has come out and said he wants to be active in the trade market this off season. Avril is basically the only piece we have thats worth a darn.

Aside from a franchise tag and trade it rarely happens, right?