Avril Update

[cheeno]

Danny Diggler[/color]]

Mayhew, who says very little, has come out and said he wants to be active in the trade market this off season. Avril is basically the only piece we have thats worth a darn.

Aside from a franchise tag and trade it rarely happens, right?

Maybe we could trade him for some expiring contracts to clear some cap.

 

[dannydiggler]

Danny Diggler[/color]]

Aside from a franchise tag and trade it rarely happens, right?

Maybe we could trade him for some expiring contracts to clear some cap.

Good, this team needs to tank to win.

 

[tonyballs]

i love how people keep bringing up that hes improved every year. The dude was out with injury basically every season before this one....ofcourse you improve your numbers when you play in more games and get more snaps.

His first 16 game year, he saw 1 v 1 the entire time....i think its obvious he should have got a career high in sacks and it was to be expected. For me its just a perfect time to sign/trade him....his value is the highest its going to get right now considering his age.

He's missed 7 games in 4 years. And yeah, he has improved every single year with his numbers. In almost every category from top to bottom. What do you want from the guy? He is what he is. A playmaker who is getting better as a passrusher. A 3rd round pick who has exceeded expectations if you ask me. Now, you reward him.
Then you say "it was expected"? What was? He was a fn LB in college who sometimes played with his hand in the dirt. He became a fulltime DE as a Lion. If it was "expected", pay the man a reasonable fee.

 

[tonyballs]

You want a "more complete" DE? Who's that then? It sure as hell isn't the combination of Young and Jackson. Avril is a must re-sign if you ask me. Yeah, he's a one-trick pony, but that pony has improved on his passrushing skills EVERY year he's been here.

Don't understand how some people want him gone because he wants more money. It's fn comical actually. He came out and and said he wants "similar" money to Johnson and Hali, right? Doesn't mean he gets $10 mill per but he deserves to be rewarded. I don't want to see this "kid" walk and become a Packer (who desperately need a passrusher) or something and haunt us for the next 5-6 years. Do any of you?

If he wants $8 million a year, I'd love that. Sign him. $12 million? No. Our cap situation isn't great. You can't simply sign everyone, regardless of price. If he wants a reasonable deal, sign him. But they can't just sign him at any price.

I agree. I never said $12 million. I was thinking $8-$10 million myself.

 

[dannydiggler]

Stats lie

 

[tonyballs]

Danny Diggler[/color]]Stats lie

They do? I know it's not the end-all-be-all of judging a player fully but it can be used as a guideline.

 

[mhughes0021]

again, the fact there is this much debate about him every off season probably means hes not all the great and not terrible either....hes somewhere in the middle. Now i dont agree with paying someone thats "in the middle" $8-12 million of anything lol. Especially when i think that position needs to be upgraded if we ever want to be a dominant defense.

 

[dtroitlionsfan951]

avril is a solid starter..he's not perfect if he was he'd be an all pro..and not every player can be an all pro...i agree if he's asking for huge money let him walk...but let's see first..i'm not willing to go off a report of last year that he wants what charles johnson got...the lions won't give out a big ugly contract..they wouldn't do it with tulloch either..that's why it took so long for them to resign him.....also charles johnson got that deal because carolina was trying to get closer to the cap...so the lions might try to argue that...and i doubt avril will get it somewhere else..

 

[themadbomber]

He was still pretty brutal this year against hte run, but who in our Front 7 wasn't.

Fricken tackles got exposed hardcore on those counter draws and teams figured out quick that if they bait a DT into the backfield and block Tulloch, there's gonna be a lot of room. Especially in those few games that Durrant missed with the Cuncussion.

Still, I like what he brings against the pass, and seems the large majority of teams are doing that these days. I think he's got a ton of upside, and would love to see him signed here.

 

[tonyballs]

again, the fact there is this much debate about him every off season probably means hes not all the great and not terrible either....hes somewhere in the middle. Now i dont agree with paying someone thats "in the middle" $8-12 million of anything lol. Especially when i think that position needs to be upgraded if we ever want to be a dominant defense.

Upgraded? Fine, i'm cool with that. But with who? Now, you let arguably ONE of your best playmaking DE go, ok? He's gone!! Do you look at the draft and and go early on a stud DE? Or do you look for a FA DE who will start? Or do you fuck all that and sign Avril at a reasonable price? Hopefully! Big decisions for Mayhew and Schwartz on this. I say try really hard to re-sign Cliff...he has to be a priority. You don't break the bank with the kid and i think he knows that with his "similar" comments. He knows he's not in the ELITE category yet but he's knocking on the door IMO....

 

[tonyballs]

He was still pretty brutal this year against hte run, but who in our Front 7 wasn't.

Fricken tackles got exposed hardcore on those counter draws and teams figured out quick that if they bait a DT into the backfield and block Tulloch, there's gonna be a lot of room. Especially in those few games that Durrant missed with the Cuncussion.

Still, I like what he brings against the pass, and seems the large majority of teams are doing that these days. I think he's got a ton of upside, and would love to see him signed here.

The whole DLine was bad against the run this year. Aside from Hill. He looked the most comfortable and did make some stuffs it seemed. Why do you think Mayhew went out and acquired runstuffing LB's like Tulloch and Durant. They were suppsed to help out big time, Durant got hurt some of the year and Tulloch made some plays but he can't do it by himself. The front-four was abysmal in that department. When you have a DL that mainly just gets to the QB, you need "stud" LB's to help them in the run.

 

[themadbomber]

He was still pretty brutal this year against hte run, but who in our Front 7 wasn't.

Fricken tackles got exposed hardcore on those counter draws and teams figured out quick that if they bait a DT into the backfield and block Tulloch, there's gonna be a lot of room. Especially in those few games that Durrant missed with the Cuncussion.

Still, I like what he brings against the pass, and seems the large majority of teams are doing that these days. I think he's got a ton of upside, and would love to see him signed here.

The whole DLine was bad against the run this year. Aside from Hill. He looked the most comfortable and did make some stuffs it seemed. Why do you think Mayhew went out and acquired runstuffing LB's like Tulloch and Durant. They were suppsed to help out big time, Durant got hurt some of the year and Tulloch made some plays but he can't do it by himself. The front-four was abysmal in that department. When you have a DL that mainly just gets to the QB, you need "stud" LB's to help them in the run.

Yup. Pretty much exactly what I just said.

Just saying I don't think that's a reason to cut bait with him. He's got tons of upside IMO, and is developing into a force in the pass rush game... specficially because he gets blocked 1 on 1 pretty much every snap of the year. I too compeltely forgot he's only 25 until somebody posted it earlier in this thread.

 

[murktastic]

lojack when healthy is an upgrade in run support and decent has ecent pass rush right? willie young needs to add another 10-20 pounds and he might even develop into a starter

 

[themadbomber]

Fairley played well against the run albeit in extremely limited time. I think he'll be one of the solutions to the run problem.

 

[tonyballs]

lojack when healthy is an upgrade in run support and decent has ecent pass rush right? willie young needs to add another 10-20 pounds and he might even develop into a starter

I'm not going to completely bash on Jackson and Young because i like these 2 guys. Well, maybe just a little...lol.

Jackson : A 1st round pick who busted out in Seattle and did NOTHING. Came to Detroit and found a spark, played well. He's a runstopping DE who found a little bit of passrush ability. All great things in Detroit. But, he's a fill in, a reserve, a guy who spells starters. Can he handle starting fulltime? He was brutal in Seattle. He must have started a handful of games for the Lions due to injuries. How was his play?

Young : A 7th? round pick with a high motor who has a knack for putting "some" pressure on the QB. He's not a starter in the NFL IMO. He spells other DE's and can be used on situational downs from time-to-time.

Point is, keep all 3, pay Avril some coin and keep this rotation going. They need another LB abd another DT/NT who does nothing but stuff the run. That's it, that's all. Oh, and at least 2 more CB's and a Safety. Focus on the D. The offense is gold,....don't fuck with it.

 

[lgolfer]

The offensive line is not "gold". Our offensive line needs some help if we are ever going to be able to run the ball

 

[mhughes0021]

He was still pretty brutal this year against hte run, but who in our Front 7 wasn't.

Fricken tackles got exposed hardcore on those counter draws and teams figured out quick that if they bait a DT into the backfield and block Tulloch, there's gonna be a lot of room. Especially in those few games that Durrant missed with the Cuncussion.

Still, I like what he brings against the pass, and seems the large majority of teams are doing that these days. I think he's got a ton of upside, and would love to see him signed here.

The whole DLine was bad against the run this year. Aside from Hill. He looked the most comfortable and did make some stuffs it seemed. Why do you think Mayhew went out and acquired runstuffing LB's like Tulloch and Durant. They were suppsed to help out big time, Durant got hurt some of the year and Tulloch made some plays but he can't do it by himself. The front-four was abysmal in that department. When you have a DL that mainly just gets to the QB, you need "stud" LB's to help them in the run.

agreed tony....i dont think you cut bait with him UNLESS you have a upgrade at the position. That being said the FA market is dry for DEs unless you land a Calaiss Campbell or Houston lets Mario walk. Say you go out and draft Mercilus at 23 id be for trading Avril. Just not resigning him cause the guy wants to much would be the last and worst option to happen to us. get an extension in place prior to the draft and if something falls into your laps thats better than you can trade him.

But ya, as far as it stands now i dont think i would be overly excited about Lojack/young in that position. I think theyd do fine but in no way is that the "upgrade" i was talking about. the only benfit from that situation is wed save money to sign a different position of need but in the end it would weaken our dline which Schwartz would never do since he sees it as the strength of the team.

 

[dtroitlionsfan951]

The whole DLine was bad against the run this year. Aside from Hill. He looked the most comfortable and did make some stuffs it seemed. Why do you think Mayhew went out and acquired runstuffing LB's like Tulloch and Durant. They were suppsed to help out big time, Durant got hurt some of the year and Tulloch made some plays but he can't do it by himself. The front-four was abysmal in that department. When you have a DL that mainly just gets to the QB, you need "stud" LB's to help them in the run.

agreed tony....i dont think you cut bait with him UNLESS you have a upgrade at the position. That being said the FA market is dry for DEs unless you land a Calaiss Campbell or Houston lets Mario walk. Say you go out and draft Mercilus at 23 id be for trading Avril. Just not resigning him cause the guy wants to much would be the last and worst option to happen to us. get an extension in place prior to the draft and if something falls into your laps thats better than you can trade him.

But ya, as far as it stands now i dont think i would be overly excited about Lojack/young in that position. I think theyd do fine but in no way is that the "upgrade" i was talking about. the only benfit from that situation is wed save money to sign a different position of need but in the end it would weaken our dline which Schwartz would never do since he sees it as the strength of the team.

i think cliff gets a ray edwards contract..not charles johnson... are you buddies with cliff or something? did he tell you how much he wanted?

 

[dtroitlionsfan951]

maybe a lil more than ray edwards actually..

 

[dannydiggler]

agreed tony....i dont think you cut bait with him UNLESS you have a upgrade at the position. That being said the FA market is dry for DEs unless you land a Calaiss Campbell or Houston lets Mario walk. Say you go out and draft Mercilus at 23 id be for trading Avril. Just not resigning him cause the guy wants to much would be the last and worst option to happen to us. get an extension in place prior to the draft and if something falls into your laps thats better than you can trade him.

But ya, as far as it stands now i dont think i would be overly excited about Lojack/young in that position. I think theyd do fine but in no way is that the "upgrade" i was talking about. the only benfit from that situation is wed save money to sign a different position of need but in the end it would weaken our dline which Schwartz would never do since he sees it as the strength of the team.

i think cliff gets a ray edwards contract..not charles johnson... are you buddies with cliff or something? did he tell you how much he wanted?

He's an insider, like Adam Schefter and Tom VH rolled into one.