Caldwell to Return

[zoombabyzoom]

Honest question......why do you question if it was his decision or not? Is it just a feel or was something said?

Everything I have heard or read from all parties involved and all of those covering the story have stated openly that it was Quinn's decision.

I'm just wondering if there is something out there that states otherwise.

It just looks that way. GMs usually hire a new guy that way they don't lose their opportunity at doing well in their position. He didn't which is not par for the course, and when you start looking in the past 20 years of coaches who have survived a new GM it's VERY divided. Those coaches either turn out very bad or become/are coaches that stick around i.e. Dan Reeves, Shanahan, Holgrem, Dennis Green, etc.

If you ask me if I would place Caldwell in the good or bad bin, its bad probably 90% of the time. History of the NFL tells us we will either have a dud or a stud. And Caldwell hasn't shown to be a stud. Post Peyton Manning, he has a 41% win percentage. Other coaches with similar %s from around this time period: Dick Jauron, Eric Mangini, Ken Whisenhunt, Chan Gailey, Leslie Frazier, Tony Sparano, and Romeo Crennel. Great company.

Ford wanted Caldwell to stay, GMs usually get a new head coach. Quinn (my guy that I wanted) defied the odds and kept Caldwell just like our owner wanted.

Sure, he could of made the decision to keep him by himself. But, odds say he didn't

 

[cheeno]

It just looks that way. GMs usually hire a new guy that way they don't lose their opportunity at doing well in their position. He didn't which is not par for the course, and when you start looking in the past 20 years of coaches who have survived a new GM it's VERY divided. Those coaches either turn out very bad or become/are coaches that stick around i.e. Dan Reeves, Shanahan, Holgrem, Dennis Green, etc.

If you ask me if I would place Caldwell in the good or bad bin, its bad probably 90% of the time. History of the NFL tells us we will either have a dud or a stud. And Caldwell hasn't shown to be a stud. Post Peyton Manning, he has a 41% win percentage. Other coaches with similar %s from around this time period: Dick Jauron, Eric Mangini, Ken Whisenhunt, Chan Gailey, Leslie Frazier, Tony Sparano, and Romeo Crennel. Great company.

Ford wanted Caldwell to stay, GMs usually get a new head coach. Quinn (my guy that I wanted) defied the odds and kept Caldwell just like our owner wanted.

Sure, he could of made the decision to keep him by himself. But, odds say he didn't

It's all speculation either way but I will take historical precedent Zoom over "well he said he made the decision on his own". As if he was going to come out and say otherwise.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

It's all speculation either way but I will take historical precedent Zoom over "well he said he made the decision on his own". As if he was going to come out and say otherwise.

Just saying history says with the GM keeping him around means that Caldwell is either a great coach that will be a HC in the NFL for 8+ seasons or he sucks and will be fired after his first year.

Which out of the two choices do you feel is more likely to transpire? Caldwell isn't a legendary coach, which makes me believe since I like Quinn that he was forced to keep him (rather than conceding that he sucks)

 

[elrod817]

All I know is when Millen took over, we were in a similar situation. Gary Moeller was (interim) coach at the time. He had performed well after taking over a team, that if I recall correctly, was starting Stoney Case at points and Stoney definitely played in the ill-fated Paul Edinger field goal game that kept us out of the playoffs. Moeller was very popular amongst the players and seemed to be moving in the right direction. Millen canned him...he gave him, what I believe to be, a courtesy interview and then hired Marty. I appreciate the fact that Quinn, from my perspective, actually thought this through and didn't make the same mistake that Millen did. Score one for mighty Quinn the Eskimo.

 

[mhughes0021]

It just looks that way. GMs usually hire a new guy that way they don't lose their opportunity at doing well in their position. He didn't which is not par for the course, and when you start looking in the past 20 years of coaches who have survived a new GM it's VERY divided. Those coaches either turn out very bad or become/are coaches that stick around i.e. Dan Reeves, Shanahan, Holgrem, Dennis Green, etc.

If you ask me if I would place Caldwell in the good or bad bin, its bad probably 90% of the time. History of the NFL tells us we will either have a dud or a stud. And Caldwell hasn't shown to be a stud. Post Peyton Manning, he has a 41% win percentage. Other coaches with similar %s from around this time period: Dick Jauron, Eric Mangini, Ken Whisenhunt, Chan Gailey, Leslie Frazier, Tony Sparano, and Romeo Crennel. Great company.

Ford wanted Caldwell to stay, GMs usually get a new head coach. Quinn (my guy that I wanted) defied the odds and kept Caldwell just like our owner wanted.

Sure, he could of made the decision to keep him by himself. But, odds say he didn't

I feel the same. He did say he was going to speak to Matt about potential coaches....so im hoping that conversation had more to do with Caldwell being retained moreso than a 90 year woman. But youre right....between Martha, Stafford and the looming Calvin dececision...we really kinda handcuffed our new GM. Almost every new GM would want to start of his tenure by bringing his guy in. Good news for him is that if Caldwell fails....he can just point the finger back at his owner. Hes really in a no lose situation to be honest....especially if the coordinators come back.

All that said...the coordinators leave and Caldwell fails next year. Then 2016 was nothing more than a huge waste of time. If deep down you don't think Caldwell is the guy....it really was best to just get rid of him this year and get Stafford a year under his belt under the new offense....which is going to happen next year if Caldwell isn't successful year 1.

 

[tinselwolverine]

If someone could give me a name to replace Stafford and Caldwell then problem solved? But nobody can, so......

Jim Harbaugh is probably pretty close to ready for another job change.

And if the Lions get Harbaugh Stafford is going to get a lot better.

 

[cheeno]

All I know is when Millen took over, we were in a similar situation. Gary Moeller was (interim) coach at the time. He had performed well after taking over a team, that if I recall correctly, was starting Stoney Case at points and Stoney definitely played in the ill-fated Paul Edinger field goal game that kept us out of the playoffs. Moeller was very popular amongst the players and seemed to be moving in the right direction. Millen canned him...he gave him, what I believe to be, a courtesy interview and then hired Marty. I appreciate the fact that Quinn, from my perspective, actually thought this through and didn't make the same mistake that Millen did. Score one for mighty Quinn the Eskimo.

Moeller didn't exactly go on to bigger and better things a la Belichick though Elrod. Whatever Millen touched just turned to doo-doo.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Moeller didn't exactly go on to bigger and better things a la Belichick though Elrod. Whatever Millen touched just turned to doo-doo.

He is unquestionably the worst GM in sports history.

 

[inkfreq]

Most first time GM's don't have a "guy" they can just tap who they have a ton of experience with. They draw on a coach from the experience they have playing against him, or the way other people talk about him... that's pretty normal.

People keep saying Quinn was likely to bring in "his guy"... but does he really have a "guy" yet? He spoke very well of Caldwell, and talked about the amount of respect he has for the coach.

If their philosophies aligned... maybe Caldwell IS his "guy".

 

[elrod817]

Moeller didn't exactly go on to bigger and better things a la Belichick though Elrod. Whatever Millen touched just turned to doo-doo.

I don't disagree, but we'll never know what might've happened. I was just drawing comparisons to a point in Lions history that was somewhat similar and am happy that Quinn has appeared to do the opposite.

 

[sggatecl]

Most first time GM's don't have a "guy" they can just tap who they have a ton of experience with. They draw on a coach from the experience they have playing against him, or the way other people talk about him... that's pretty normal.

People keep saying Quinn was likely to bring in "his guy"... but does he really have a "guy" yet? He spoke very well of Caldwell, and talked about the amount of respect he has for the coach.

If their philosophies aligned... maybe Caldwell IS his "guy".

Impossible! He clearly is being told what to do by Martha! Just a puppet! :lmao:

 

[grandy]

If you're happy with how this conversation has gone, just think....this is all we have to talk about until the combine!

 

[mhughes0021]

Impossible! He clearly is being told what to do by Martha! Just a puppet! :lmao:

Caldwell is a bottom half coach that had 1 foot out the door. If that's his guy....umm...he needs to find a new profession.

I can clearly see there were several reasons to keep him. But none of them have anything to do with him being "his guy."

 

[cheeno]

I don't disagree, but we'll never know what might've happened. I was just drawing comparisons to a point in Lions history that was somewhat similar and am happy that Quinn has appeared to do the opposite.

Quinn should get a bracelet WWMD and when in doubt look at it and do the opposite. I agree Booger, worst even in any sport.

 

[cheeno]

Most first time GM's don't have a "guy" they can just tap who they have a ton of experience with. They draw on a coach from the experience they have playing against him, or the way other people talk about him... that's pretty normal.

People keep saying Quinn was likely to bring in "his guy"... but does he really have a "guy" yet? He spoke very well of Caldwell, and talked about the amount of respect he has for the coach.

If their philosophies aligned... maybe Caldwell IS his "guy".

How many second time GMs are there?

 

[sggatecl]

How many second time GMs are there?

Scot McCloughan (Washington) and Rick Spielman (Vikings) are the two I'm aware of.

 

[tonyballs]

This is a losing mentality. We have the wrong coach, but because I can't think of another coach right now I'll keep doing the wrong thing. When what you're doing isn't working, you stop doing it, period.

Stafford could be a winning QB here, you keep him.

For the record....I don't want Stafford gone

 

[tonyballs]

I don't give you names because I personally don't know assistant coaches throughout the league and the responsibility of their teams success. However people that work in the business and have the necessary tools to use should. I do know that Jim Caldwell doesn't coach our offense or our defense. That is obvious. Do you disagree? You cannot maintain long term success with an idiot leading your franchise. He seems to have an ability to be well-liked and attract good coaches, however he himself is a bad coach. How do you expect Jim Caldwell to be successful head coach when he doesn't have an imprint on either side of the ball? Answer me that? He stood by and watched Lombardi grossly misuse our offense and players for a year and a half. How does a head coach who has coached offense his entire career allow that to happen? Answer me that Tony? I like our coordinators, I like our talent, but all of that won't matter because the second we have to depend on Caldwell to lead our team in the right direction in a time where either of those two things are compromised he will fumble the situation. I promise you that .

You just said it yourself. You don't know anybody or anything on a personal level. So you have no fucking idea what goes on behind the scenes. Caldwell is an idiot? Says who....you? You honestly think he just walks into work everyday and stares at the fucking wall? Give me a break. I will bet you that he's heavily involved in the offense. You remember when he was in Indy? He fired his OC and started calling the plays. So don't "promise" me shit.....you don't have a clue.

 

[tonyballs]

Caldwell is a bottom half coach that had 1 foot out the door. If that's his guy....umm...he needs to find a new profession.

I can clearly see there were several reasons to keep him. But none of them have anything to do with him being "his guy."

Maybe he had "his guy" but that guy told him no thanks. We'll never know. A GMs job is to surround himself and his team with good football minds. Caldwell is a good football mind. Does he get lost or get that fucked up look? Sure he does....they all do. This team has done some nice things under Jim. We're a few more players away here from something special IMO. I know....same old song and dance, but i can feel it. Quinn was a great hire and he's going after other guys that are football guys like O'Brien. Former scouts that know the game inside and out. Im excited for the draft....

 

[tonyballs]

Jim Harbaugh is probably pretty close to ready for another job change.

And if the Lions get Harbaugh Stafford is going to get a lot better.

I would have chubbed up for a Harbaugh hire, but he's stil in Baltimore. 3 guys i liked.....Harbaugh, Coughlin and Jackson. Jackson was gone, Harbaugh is still a Raven and Coughlin was 110% not setting foot in Detroit. Caldwell IS our best option IMO...