Chargers, Rams, Raiders all file for relocation

[tinselwolverine]

You mean from 25 years ago?

Yes.

Those people.

They finally get their jobs back.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yes.

Those people.

They finally get their jobs back.

I didn't realize they were still unemployed. But now a new set of people are unemployed.. I guess in 20 years if the owner, if still alive, gets bored he can move back.

I just don't like relocations. Piss off LA twice, now St. Louis and some day LA again. And of course San Diego.

 

[sggatecl]

I just don't like relocations. Piss off LA twice, now St. Louis and some day LA again. And of course San Diego.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Couldn't agree more.

It's scary. I remember before Barry the Lions weren't selling out games. As much as I complain, if the Lions were relocated I'd be devastated, especially when I was younger.

An owner can just get up and relocate, that's scary.

 

[inkfreq]

You mean from 25 years ago? So lets make the same mistake twice or is this 4 times by now.

This is about money, plain and simple. But LA always destroys their NFL team. Or are they saying LA fans, and employees matter more than St. Louis fans and their employees.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what they are saying. LA fans matter more to the NFL than St. Louis fans, and from a business perspective, they have good reason for it.

First, when the Rams moved to St. Louis, they didn't exactly take over as the most popular football team in the state. There were many Chiefs fans in Missouri, and they didn't suddenly switch teams. The Rams have one of the lowest fan bases in America.

But, more importantly, there is the DirectV contract, which is due for renewal again soon. And can anyone guess where Directv is weakest in the American markets?

Yep... L.A.

See, LA football fans didn't just follow their teams when they moved. They got bitter. They lost both of their teams in the same season, and many of them (about 20% lets say) just stopped watching football and went back to baseball.

Directv has struggled to find a solid footing in the market with the local cable companies being the dominant internet provider. And they can't seen to reach those 10 million homes in the greater LA area.

BUT... drop a couple of football teams in there, and they will get the type of penetration they get from the rest of the country... and they will bid like a sum'bitch to keep that market when the NFL contract comes up for renewal.

Without the NFL package, Directv really has no stability in the markets. They aren't faster, better, or even cheaper than cable. They don't offer a wider range of channels. In fact, with local blackout zones, they offer less local programming. Their offer internet service, but it's significantly slower than cable broadband. They have nothing... except the football contract.

So Directv will pay ( I would guess) nearly 8 billion dollars more over the term of a 10 year renewal if there are two teams in LA than can give them access to roughly 1.5Mm more subscribers. That is a significant increase in league TV revenue. And if Directv isn't willing to pay the king's ransom for it, Dish Network and Fox are.

Yep... the LA fan base is much more important to the NFL than St. Louis, where fans of the Rams will either follow their team back in LA, or the Chiefs will increase in popularity again.

 

[inkfreq]

It's scary. I remember before Barry the Lions weren't selling out games. As much as I complain, if the Lions were relocated I'd be devastated, especially when I was younger.

An owner can just get up and relocate, that's scary.

For the most part, they really can't. It's actually much harder to do.

Each team is given territorial rights by the league. One team cannot invade another team's territory without those rights being agreed upon, with the owner of the current territory having final veto power.

It's pretty hard in the country right now to find a market that is large enough to hold an NFL team, and make money doing it, without stepping on someone else's territorial rights. It can be done with LA in the mix, but aside from that, it would be pretty difficult to pull off.

Then it takes a vote of 24 out of 32 teams to approve the move. A vote is not allowed to occur unless a team has no remaining lease with the city... I would imagine for any good business lawyer a lease could be easy to violate, but it can't be done by the team, it has to be done by the city, making it much harder.

Those leases are usually 20-30 year leases to cover the expected cost of building a stadium.

So once every 20-30 years, an owner can move his team, if he gets an overwhelming approval from league owners, AND can find a market big enough to accommodate his team that doesn't infringe on another team's very wide ranging territorial rights.

That's a really tall set of circumstances to come together all at once. Notice that both LA teams moved out of the city in 1995, signed a 20 year lease, and both teams are trying to move back at the end of that lease. Only one team got full approval, and the other got a "Eh... maybe, talk to us later".

 

[Mitchrapp]

I ready something earlier about the last team IN LA, the Rams, their last two home games had crowds of just over 30k and about 26k for the last one. LA doesn't care about football. Maybe initially but eventually if they don't get good, more half filled stadiums.

 

[SpartyNash]

I'm a Charger fan, I hopped on the bandwagon about 10 years ago and never left, that is until they move. It's absolute bullshit and I will not support a team that completely gives the finger to its fanbase and city. From all accounts (I've never attended) Qualcomm is a dump and needs to be replaced ASAP. However, the Chargers organization has not cooperated with the city one bit in building a new stadium and wants the taxpayers to foot the majority of the bill for a new stadium in San Diego. Screw the entire Spanos family, greedy piles of shit. Go ahead and move to LA, enjoy losing your entire fanbase and being 10th fiddle in that city behind even the Ducks and LA Galaxy.

 

[inkfreq]

I ready something earlier about the last team IN LA, the Rams, their last two home games had crowds of just over 30k and about 26k for the last one. LA doesn't care about football. Maybe initially but eventually if they don't get good, more half filled stadiums.

Yeah bud, that is true... but the fans already knew the Rams were leaving. It was announced a couple of months before the season started.

The "fans" were already pissed and no, they didn't attend the games.

Raiders fans, on the other hand, were shocked when Al Davis said he was moving back to Oakland. Their final home games in LA were packed.

 

[inkfreq]

I'm a Charger fan, I hopped on the bandwagon about 10 years ago and never left, that is until they move. It's absolute bullshit and I will not support a team that completely gives the finger to its fanbase and city. From all accounts (I've never attended) Qualcomm is a dump and needs to be replaced ASAP. However, the Chargers organization has not cooperated with the city one bit in building a new stadium and wants the taxpayers to foot the majority of the bill for a new stadium in San Diego. Screw the entire Spanos family, greedy piles of shit. Go ahead and move to LA, enjoy losing your entire fanbase and being 10th fiddle in that city behind even the Ducks and LA Galaxy.

This is what I mean. SpartyNash is very typical of a fanbase when it's team moves. It's angry, and it doesn't follow the team after it's gone.

The fans in Cleveland didn't follow the Ravens. The fans in St. Louis didn't follow the Cardinals. And the fans in LA didn't keep following the Raiders and Rams for the most part.

And that is costing the NFL the largest TV market in America, where it's partner in Directv can't get solid market penetration, which is keeping TV revenue down.

It doesn't matter how many people go to games in LA... Directv will pay through the nose to make sure they have the contract for showing the NFL Season Ticket package to grab as many of those 10Mm homes as they can.

 

[SpartyNash]

Yeah bud, that is true... but the fans already knew the Rams were leaving. It was announced a couple of months before the season started.

The "fans" were already pissed and no, they didn't attend the games.

Raiders fans, on the other hand, were shocked when Al Davis said he was moving back to Oakland. Their final home games in LA were packed.

I don't blame them, they're smarter than most fans, why support an organization that doesn't care about you? I believe it was the same way when the Oilers were getting set to move to Tennessee, they were only getting about 20k fans each home game.

 

[inkfreq]

Hell if you want the truth Mitch, it reminds me of when the Cardinals moved here and became the Phoenix Cardinals. Good Old Buddy Ball and shit.

You could go to ANY game for more than a decade and see more people wearing the visiting team's jersey and gear than the Cardinals. And Bidwell and his son didn't care. They were making money hand over first and didn't need to spend anything (no salary floor back then) to bring in players that could win. They sold out lots of games because of snowbirds and transplants.

Try going to a Cardinals game now wearing a Dallas jersey. I am not sure the Cardinals fans don't hate the Cowboys more than the Redskins fans do, but I can tell you now days you would be outnumbers 1,000 to 1.

It took the Cardinals almost 20 years to get a real fan base here, but they did it, and now Arizona is a very respected football market. But those of us who were here in 'Zone remember a very different "Phoenix Cardinals" team oh those many years ago.. and a fan base who couldn't give a rats ass less about the team.

 

[inkfreq]

I don't blame them, they're smarter than most fans, why support an organization that doesn't care about you? I believe it was the same way when the Oilers were getting set to move to Tennessee, they were only getting about 20k fans each home game.

Agreed Sparty. When your team is bailing, fans don't show up. The ones who do, typically came to give your team the business one last time before you leave.

20K fans? Sounds like mostly season ticket holders and nosebleed boo-birds coming to loudly express their displeasure.

 

[SpartyNash]

Agreed Sparty. When your team is bailing, fans don't show up. The ones who do, typically came to give your team the business one last time before you leave.

20K fans? Sounds like mostly season ticket holders and nosebleed boo-birds coming to loudly express their displeasure.

According to the Wikipedia page for that season, they had 15k fans for their final home game in Houston. Apparently the team radio network was disbanded and games were being replaced on TV with preseason NBA games.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Houston_Oilers_season

 

[Mitchrapp]

Still don't like it. Dodgers until Oct./Nov., Lakers until June. How do the Rams get fans..

And honestly, if the LA fans are in LA where games will be on local TV - why would they get Directv? You could say the fans outside LA but it's been over 20 years, there are no fans outside of LA.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Still don't like it. Dodgers until Oct./Nov., Lakers until June. How do the Rams get fans..

What can I tell ya?

When her husband Carol Rosenbloom died, Georgia Frontiere inherited majority ownership in the Los Angeles Rams. They were living in Southern California at the time. The Rams had been in LA/SoCal for decades.

Frontiere sold an interest in the Rams to Stan Kroenke, whose wife Ann's is a billionaire heiress to the Wal-Mart fortune.

Kroenke is from Columbia, MO and Georgia Frontiere was from St. Louis; together the two moved the Los Angeles Rams to St. Louis.

After Georgia died a few years ago, Kroenke bought the rest of the ownership interest.

So now Kroenke wants to move the Rams back to Southern California, for whatever reason.

What can I tell ya? It's his business.

 

[Mitchrapp]

What can I tell ya?

When her husband Carol Rosenbloom died, Georgia Frontiere inherited majority ownership in the Los Angeles Rams. They were living in Southern California at the time. The Rams had been in LA/SoCal for decades.

Frontiere sold an interest in the Rams to Stan Kroenke, whose wife Ann's is a billionaire heiress to the Wal-Mart fortune.

Kroenke is from Columbia, MO and Georgia Frontiere was from St. Louis; together the two moved the Los Angeles Rams to St. Louis.

After Georgia died a few years ago, Kroenke bought the rest of the ownership interest.

So now Kroenke wants to move the Rams back to Southern California, for whatever reason.

What can I tell ya? It's his business.

I know why he wants to do it. Just going to fail is all.

 

[cheeno]

If the team is good they'll do well in LA. If the team is bad...

 

[zoombabyzoom]

I know why he wants to do it. Just going to fail is all.

I don't know to be honest.

Last year the Rams ranked 26th in their fan base per Nielsen.

To succeed would be to do better than 26th. Not that hard, with triple the population.

And, he is going to make a shit-ton of money within a decade if LA gets the Olympics in 2024 which seems likely. Because that new stadium that he is going to make (should be done by 2018) will host the Olympics. Guy from a business standpoint is going to make a killing, even if his team ranks last in attendance (which won't happen)

 

[tinselwolverine]

I don't know to be honest.

Last year the Rams ranked 26th in their fan base per Nielsen.

To succeed would be to do better than 26th. Not that hard, with triple the population.

There is still a substantial Ram fan base here in So Cal from their days in LA/Anaheim.