Coronainsanity

[Spartanmack]

Yeah, feelings.

Ooh, a zinger from the boards top pedant. Well done.

 

[Spartanmack]

I mean, where did we land on excess deaths? Are people unaware, or not believing those numbers either, or do people think we had a sudden comorbidity bloom that killed a ton of people that we just don't care to try to figure out why it happened?

No one believes that. Everyone believes the numbers are accurate and cannot be challenged by reasonable people, which is why anyone who challenges them has their character attacked rather than their assertions debated.

 

[Michchamp]

...

"CFI CONDEMNS TRUMP?S CLAIM THAT CHURCHES ARE ESSENTIAL SERVICES"

...

 

[byco42]

Yeeeaaaahhh, but if the other thing I know about you is that people quote you to downplay the significance of the pandemic - that's 2 strikes. And I'm not at a loss for good sources of information.

I've quoted scientific studies that you would, I believe, consider as viable in an attempt to place this virus into some perspective.

And like I read earlier: it's the reaction to it, not COVID-19 itself. As for its "significance?" I've not downplayed that -- it's exposed the U.S. MSM as reactionary and fear-mongering, government as oppressive and selectively irrational, and society as gullible, unquestioning, and compliant.

And masks as somewhat effective in limiting the spread of people's exhalations, coughs and sneezes.

Enough, apparently for a San Diego superior court judge to order that two strip clubs in the city can reopen, but not churches or schools. He overturned a county cease-and-desist order.

Maybe he missed his regular visits.

So nude dancing is "free expression" but not attending Holy Mass, a right guaranteed in the First Amendment, which are in order on purpose, meaning that there is a hierarchy of dependent, inalienable rights.

 

[Gulo Blue]

No one believes that. Everyone believes the numbers are accurate and cannot be challenged by reasonable people, which is why anyone who challenges them has their character attacked rather than their assertions debated.

What do you mean? I'm not challenging your feelings. I accept that that's how you feel.

 

[Spartanmack]

What do you mean? I'm not challenging your feelings. I accept that that's how you feel.

Other zinger. You?re on a roll.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I've quoted scientific studies that you would, I believe, consider as viable in an attempt to place this virus into some perspective.

And like I read earlier: it's the reaction to it, not COVID-19 itself. As for its "significance?" I've not downplayed that -- it's exposed the U.S. MSM as reactionary and fear-mongering, government as oppressive and selectively irrational, and society as gullible, unquestioning, and compliant.

And masks as somewhat effective in limiting the spread of people's exhalations, coughs and sneezes.

Enough, apparently for a San Diego superior court judge to order that two strip clubs in the city can reopen, but not churches or schools. He overturned a county cease-and-desist order.

Maybe he missed his regular visits.

So nude dancing is "free expression" but not attending Holy Mass, a right guaranteed in the First Amendment, which are in order on purpose, meaning that there is a hierarchy of dependent, inalienable rights.

What do you mean by perspective? I'm just commenting on this persistent claim that covid numbers are exaggerated.

 

[byco42]

What do you mean by perspective? I'm just commenting on this persistent claim that covid numbers are exaggerated.

It's the difference between what the MSM says about COVID and what the scientists actually say about COVID.

The facts do not sell mouthwash, statins, luxury automobiles, or beer.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's the difference between what the MSM says about COVID and what the scientists actually say about COVID.

The facts do not sell mouthwash, statins, luxury automobiles, or beer.

Scientists actually say people are dying from Covid 19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7583499/

 

[Michchamp]

It's the difference between what the MSM says about COVID and what the scientists actually say about COVID.

The facts do not sell mouthwash, statins, luxury automobiles, or beer.

You gots it backwards: the mouthwash, beer, and luxury automobile sellers have all been trying to downplay COVID-19 and get people to go out and shop. "Don't let the cure be worse than the disease," remember?



Not sure what the people who sell statins want.

 

[byco42]

Scientists actually say people are dying from Covid 19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7583499/

I know that. MSM would have you want to think you and I will, too. That's the difference.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I know that. MSM would have you want to think you and I will, too. That's the difference.

I'm not sure what you're getting at then. I posted in response to ?the virus is real, the data isn?t.?



If you're agreeing with the data, then what's the issue? My skepticism of the doctor that says the data isn't real?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Scientists actually say people are dying from Covid 19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7583499/

Yes, people are dying from the Covid. Nobody is saying that?s not happening.

Right before the summary, the study admits that it is subject to ?at least five limitations.? The fourth is what we already talked about ? the average increase in death over the five-year period due primarily to an aging population.

 

[byco42]

I'm not sure what you're getting at then. I posted in response to ?the virus is real, the data isn?t.?



If you're agreeing with the data, then what's the issue? My skepticism of the doctor that says the data isn't real?

I have no idea if the data's real. I didn't tabulate it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Yes, people are dying from the Covid. Nobody is saying that?s not happening.

Right before the summary, the study admits that it is subject to ?at least five limitations.? The fourth is what we already talked about ? the average increase in death over the five-year period due primarily to an aging population.

There are always limitations and we can't get picky about speaking in absolutes, so it's not just that people are dying, it's that they are dying somewhere in the ballpark of the numbers reported by the CDC. We say the data is right or it isn't right, but we mean it's close or it isn't close.

 

[Gulo Blue]

(and if we're jackasses we say things we know people will interpret incorrectly and rest on technicalities to justify to ourselves that we're right and it's everybody else's fault for misinterpreting, even though we used wording aimed at misinterpretation - that's if we're jackasses)

 

[Gulo Blue]

Yes, people are dying from the Covid. Nobody is saying that?s not happening.

Right before the summary, the study admits that it is subject to ?at least five limitations.? The fourth is what we already talked about ? the average increase in death over the five-year period due primarily to an aging population.

Regarding the uptick from year-to-year, It's not just the aging population, but also the growing population. But that impacts things very gradually. The sharp upturn in the weekly excess death chart, out of phase with the annual pattern, has nothing to do with a gradual year-to-year increase. Even if it's not accounted for in the CDC's expected death model, that mistake, if we attributed the whole thing to covid it would swing things 15%.

 

[tinselwolverine]

There are always limitations and we can't get picky about speaking in absolutes, so it's not just that people are dying, it's that they are dying somewhere in the ballpark of the numbers reported by the CDC. We say the data is right or it isn't right, but we mean it's close or it isn't close.

Fine.

I say it?s more likely to be not close than it is to close.

I think there is one thing we can all agree on - the CDC ain?t always right.

We might disagree on where it?s wrong, but I?m sure we can all agree that at least sometimes it?s wrong.

I?ll have to see the data I have referred to in the past ? year-to-year comparisons of deaths from the comorbidities associated with Covid deaths relative to this year - until I see that, my thinking is that the CDC is highly suspect on the Covid death count.

Is that a patent condemnation of the CDC in the throes of the pandemic? ? Not really. The CDC has been only counting Covid deaths for about eight months. Why should they be castigated horrifically for not getting it right the first time around?

As the CDC itself has said, 96% of Covid deaths were associated with the comorbidities of obesity, hypertension, diabetes, respiratory disorders such as asthma, and old age.

The CDC has itself been keeping count of deaths related to each of those as the primary contributor for years.

So we are not going to get an accurate Covid death count until we compare the year to year deaths related to those comorbidities to those that were associated with them as a primary cause of death for this year.

 

[byco42]

(and if we're jackasses we say things we know people will interpret incorrectly and rest on technicalities to justify to ourselves that we're right and it's everybody else's fault for misinterpreting, even though we used wording aimed at misinterpretation - that's if we're jackasses)

That shoe don't fit me. Put it back on the shelf.

Strip clubs are safe; churches are not. I'd like to know the technicality that proves this.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Regarding the uptick from year-to-year, It's not just the aging population, but also the growing population. But that impacts things very gradually. The sharp upturn in the weekly excess death chart, out of phase with the annual pattern, has nothing to do with a gradual year-to-year increase. Even if it's not accounted for in the CDC's expected death model, that mistake, if we attributed the whole thing to covid it would swing things 15%.

Why would it not?

Why would a macro-trend not be seen in a specific ?thin slice,? to borrow a phrase from Malcom Gladwell, taken from any random point in the continuum?