Coronainsanity

[tinselwolverine]

No we haven't.


We've heard that it's important and everybody should be doing it. Nobody said (not the literal nobody, obviously, just nobody you should listen to) - nobody said it would stomp out the virus on it's own. The great thing about masks is that it's a cheap and easy thing we can all do. Every other tool we've got sucks worse for one reason or another. The thing that's special about wearing a mask is the ratio of how much it helps divided by how little it crashes the economy.

It is impossible that the level of insanity and bullshit where you live reaches the level of insanity and bullshit where I live. Here in California and Los Angeles city and county, mask wearing is preached to rainbow and unicorn level.

The only exception is when you’re the mayor of Los Angeles, and you get down and kneel without your mask on with rioters and looters who are surrounding your mansion, and then you turn around the next day and call your police force, who are the ones who in fact kept those rioters and looters from killing you and your family and burning your mansion down “killers.”

EDIT: Oh, right, and if you’re the governor, and you’re out cozying up to some of your political cronies, the rules that you your self imposed also do not apply in that situation.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It is impossible that the level of insanity and bullshit where you live reaches the level of insanity and bullshit where I live. Here in California and Los Angeles city and county, mask wearing is preached to rainbow and unicorn level.

The only exception is when you?re the mayor of Los Angeles, and you get down and kneel without your mask on with rioters and looters who are surrounding your mansion, and then you turn around the next day and call your police force, who are the ones who in fact kept those rioters and looters from killing you and your family and burning your mansion down ?killers.?

EDIT: Oh, right, and if you?re the governor, and you?re out cozying up to some of your political cronies, the rules that you your self imposed also do not apply in that situation.

Good point. I've talked to two other CA people about covid and they also seem to be living with completely different messaging.

 

[Michchamp]

I still don't put much blame on Trump. People don't listen anyway.

One of my wife's co-workers entire family has Covid (as of last week). They are flying to the east coast for Thanksgiving. The first thing they do at security at the airport is ask if you have had COVID or any symptoms and I guess this family is just going to lie. WTF???

I'd agree that Trump couldn't do much to stop the sort of assholes willing to lie about being COVID positive - even when openly sick with it!!! - so they can travel or do whatever they want.

But he COULD have done something about the jackasses in all the videos screaming at retail workers that it's fake and they shouldn't have to wear a mask.

This is not a zero sum game, where you either prevent it completely or everyone dies... Trump could have gone a long way to reducing the numbers had he taken it seriously, and communicated it that way.

I don't mean to give democrats a pass either... Cuomo has a lot of deaths on his hands. But he's only governor of one (1) state.

 

[byco42]

It would make a difference if they asked nicely. Or if they even asked at all. But they know there is strength in numbers and the more people they convince into compliance, the more leverage they have. When I see someone walking on the street, alone, wearing a mask, with no one but me on the other side of the road within sight, I suspect they are incapable of self-government, which (was) the foundation of this country. They need to be told what to do. And I see too many of these people, who are easy prey for our ravenous and amoral elected officials who, in truth, despise us because we are so compliant. JMHO

 

[Gulo Blue]

When I see someone walking on the street, alone, wearing a mask, with no one but me on the other side of the road within sight, I suspect they are incapable of self-government, which (was) the foundation of this country. They need to be told what to do. And I see too many of these people, who are easy prey for our ravenous and amoral elected officials who, in truth, despise us because we are so compliant. JMHO

Or they were somewhere they needed to wear a mask and they don't want to take it off until after they get a chance to wash their hands.

 

[Michchamp]

It would make a difference if they asked nicely. Or if they even asked at all. But they know there is strength in numbers and the more people they convince into compliance, the more leverage they have. When I see someone walking on the street, alone, wearing a mask, with no one but me on the other side of the road within sight, I suspect they are incapable of self-government, which (was) the foundation of this country. They need to be told what to do. And I see too many of these people, who are easy prey for our ravenous and amoral elected officials who, in truth, despise us because we are so compliant. JMHO

Really? Come on man... since the mask mandate went into effect, I'd characterize every single policy & request I've seen to wear one as "unfailingly polite." And in most cases, they even provide alternative ways to shop for people (idiots) who still refuse to wear one.

If anything, I'd say they ask too nicely! I'd be okay with them saying "WEAR A GODDAMN MASK OR GTFO, JACKASS."

What do they have to do meet your standard? Type up a personalized note and hand it to you on a silver platter as you approach the entrance in your antique horse-drawn carriage?

 

[sggatecl]

It would make a difference if they asked nicely. Or if they even asked at all. But they know there is strength in numbers and the more people they convince into compliance, the more leverage they have. When I see someone walking on the street, alone, wearing a mask, with no one but me on the other side of the road within sight, I suspect they are incapable of self-government, which (was) the foundation of this country. They need to be told what to do. And I see too many of these people, who are easy prey for our ravenous and amoral elected officials who, in truth, despise us because we are so compliant. JMHO

There have been a number of times I've walked out of a building and not realized my mask was still on until a few minutes later. Or perhaps they're high risk and don't want to risk someone coming up to them and getting too close? I'm sure there are other potential reason.

Sure, maybe they're just stupid and can't think for themselves. But aren't there like a dozen passages in that book of your about judging people? You wouldn't be the one I'd expect it from.

 

[Gulo Blue]

10% of people are the dumbest 10% of people. It doesn't make them bad. Best practices in a once in a century pandemic should be explained so that everyone can follow them to the degree our experts have figured out what's best.


But I wouldn't just point to the soft-touch safety guidance. Something like 80% of us think we're better than average drivers. I wonder what part of that 30% that's wrong about their driving ability also think they know more about pandemic safety than experts.

 

[byco42]

There have been a number of times I've walked out of a building and not realized my mask was still on until a few minutes later. Or perhaps they're high risk and don't want to risk someone coming up to them and getting too close? I'm sure there are other potential reason.

Sure, maybe they're just stupid and can't think for themselves. But aren't there like a dozen passages in that book of your about judging people? You wouldn't be the one I'd expect it from.

I said I "suspect". And I'll be judged by the only judge who matters.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It would make a difference if they asked nicely. Or if they even asked at all. But they know there is strength in numbers and the more people they convince into compliance, the more leverage they have. When I see someone walking on the street, alone, wearing a mask, with no one but me on the other side of the road within sight, I suspect they are incapable of self-government, which (was) the foundation of this country. They need to be told what to do. And I see too many of these people, who are easy prey for our ravenous and amoral elected officials who, in truth, despise us because we are so compliant. JMHO

Here in California, it?s only recently been clarified that when you are outside not near someone, you don?t need to be wearing a mask ? just have one with you -in case you do come near somebody - which is what I?ve been doing anyway.

99% of the time, when I?m out I?m outside walking around with no one near me. I have my mask hanging on one ear, and I cover my face when I get near someone. It?s a courtesy.

But the mayor of Los Angeles and the governor of California think that they?re above the law. Their own laws that they impose on everyone else.

And the study indicates that the masks are substantially less effective than we?ve been being told ? marginally at best. Like a fraction of a percent.

I never would scream at anybody in a retail store though. They?re just following the stupid rules themselves.

 

[byco42]

Really? Come on man... since the mask mandate went into effect, I'd characterize every single policy & request I've seen to wear one as "unfailingly polite." And in most cases, they even provide alternative ways to shop for people (idiots) who still refuse to wear one.

If anything, I'd say they ask too nicely! I'd be okay with them saying "WEAR A GODDAMN MASK OR GTFO, JACKASS."

What do they have to do meet your standard? Type up a personalized note and hand it to you on a silver platter as you approach the entrance in your antique horse-drawn carriage?

Subtext is everything. Ultimately, the intonations are what you are speculate. Lines are very blurred between a request and a command. And the consistent barrage of reminders and "gentle suggestions" insult the sensibilities.

The "mask mandate" says it all. They are not even asking.

 

[Gulo Blue]

And the study indicates that the masks are substantially less effective than we?ve been being told ? marginally at best. Like a fraction of a percent.

I get CA messaging and all, but if you read this board, why do you say stuff like this? If you leave out what they are less effective at, it sounds like they aren't effective at anything, which is wrong. They are effective at preventing transmission, which is a big deal.

 

[byco42]

Or they were somewhere they needed to wear a mask and they don't want to take it off until after they get a chance to wash their hands.

Right, that's the case in the majority of circumstances, I'm sure, because, where ever they came from, there were no opportunities to do so. Like a store, for example, even though they are empty-handed.

I imagine that the people I see with masks walking their dogs forgot to wash their hands before leaving the house.

 

[Michchamp]

Subtext is everything. Ultimately, the intonations are what you are speculate. Lines are very blurred between a request and a command. And the consistent barrage of reminders and "gentle suggestions" insult the sensibilities.

The "mask mandate" says it all. They are not even asking.

Writing this part gave me a pretty funny mental image:

What do they have to do meet your standard? Type up a personalized note and hand it to you on a silver platter as you approach the entrance in your antique horse-drawn carriage?​

I crack myself up sometimes!

 

[Gulo Blue]

Subtext is everything. Ultimately, the intonations are what you are speculate. Lines are very blurred between a request and a command. And the consistent barrage of reminders and "gentle suggestions" insult the sensibilities.

The "mask mandate" says it all. They are not even asking.

What's the solution? It's not enough to get people to wear them, but too much for your sensibilities? What's the right way to ask to get people to do what they have to do to reduce transmission and therefore death?

 

[byco42]

Writing this part gave me a pretty funny mental image:

What do they have to do meet your standard? Type up a personalized note and hand it to you on a silver platter as you approach the entrance in your antique horse-drawn carriage?​

I crack myself up sometimes!

Never fall in love with your writing.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Right, that's the case in the majority of circumstances, I'm sure, because, where ever they came from, there were no opportunities to do so. Like a store, for example, even though they are empty-handed.

I imagine that the people I see with masks walking their dogs forgot to wash their hands before leaving the house.

Or they could be on their way to rob a bank.

 

[Gulo Blue]

 

[tinselwolverine]

I get CA messaging and all, but if you read this board, why do you say stuff like this? If you leave out what they are less effective at, it sounds like they aren't effective at anything, which is wrong. They are effective at preventing transmission, which is a big deal.

They have been telling us ? the ubiquitous they - that masks protect both transmissions and being infection of the wearer of the mask. Well the study a linked to demonstrates, through using scientific methodology, that in fact masks are not effective in stopping the transmission to the mask wearer.

Can you link to a study that demonstrates through scientific methodology that in fact wearing the mask is helpful in preventing transmission from the mask wearer? I haven?t seen one.

I?ve just heard the same bullshit from political leaders primarily governor Newsom and Mayor Garcetti, neither of whom is a scientist.

 

[byco42]

What's the solution? It's not enough to get people to wear them, but too much for your sensibilities? What's the right way to ask to get people to do what they have to do to reduce transmission and therefore death?

Let me start with some of the present problems that even mask mandates will not solve.

1. Many people are not even wearing CDC-recommended masks. The paper kind are not effective in containing droplets.
2. Many people who wear masks think they are safe from infection and get inside the 6-foot circle (see #1)
3. Our officials do not practice what they are preaching and exact arbitrary locations, people counts and time to associate and the COVID #s keep rising -- some make exceptions and even violate their own mandates -- so how seriously should we take them -- or these measures designed to stop the spread?
4. There are athletic events in play that violate EVERY SINGLE MANDATE these same officials are imposing on the rest of us in regards to distancing and mask wearing
5. Yet we are being told to wear masks indoors and outdoors when "the six-foot distance is 'difficult' to maintain."

So the "right" way to suggest that people wear masks is to treat them like the sovereign individuals they are rather than subjects who need direction. Acknowledge that this is a highly irregular situation and extraordinary measures are required. It's a bespoke circumstance. But, to our elected officials, it's not. It's an opportunity to flaunt arbitrary authority, and it sets a precedent.

And, ultimately, we are all responsible for our own well-being and we are obligated to not jeopardize that of others. I've never heard that language from any elected official. I can relate to that, but not to "we are all in this together." We're not because THEY are NOT with US. They are a class unto themselves.