Did Tuck say he's "comin'"???

[Spartanmack]

Even funnier than the first 20 times we heard it 3 weeks ago.

 

[bphillips4gg]

Winston was definitely a mistake and one Dantonio learned from. He was kicked off the team and out of school immediately upon a second offense. As for Williams, you're definitely wrong there - he was suspended and had to work his way back onto the team. The rest of these are minor infractions in the off-season.

To answer your question yes, I can acknowledge the difference. Can you? Apparently uofm has a hard time making that distinction though - waiting 2 years and until the rapist and the guy who threatened to rape the victim a second time graduated or ran out of eligibility to "suspend" them. So please, spare me the bs righteous indignation over some traffic violations in the off-season.

I didn't see Mazi Smith on your list. He was pulled over for doing double the speed limit past a school and arrested when the cops saw an illegal firearm and multiple high capacity magazines - the officer potentionally prevented a mass shooting but smith didnt' miss a down for his illegal firearm. At least Williams' was legal and he was suspended. Oh, that's right Mazi went to uofm which let him play the bulk of a season without even disclosing the arrest, then didn't suspend him for a single play after the story was leaked and his trial was still pending. But please, tell me more about MacGaret Kings' offseason misdemeanors...

Again with the one single example you have with Gibbons/Lewan? Which occurred when an AD, Coach and school president who are all gone and have NOT been invited back in an official capacity with the school? Considering you're trying to make the case that MSU didn't cover for this shit you might want to read up on Keith Appling, who raped a student as a recruit and was still admitted to schoool and allowed to play 4 years for the school. He eventually escalated to murdering a 66 year old man in Detroit, wouldn't have happened had he been locked up for the rape.

And just to be clear, you're telling me that a DUI where the BAC is 0.234 isn't a big deal because it was an "offseason misdemeanor"? Not to mention the other DUI, several physical assualts and 7 repeat offenses that you completely dismissed as "no big deal". It's not like driving while you're blackout drunk endangers people or anything.

Speaking of endangering people, driving while you're blackout drunk definitely doesn't endanger people the way that carrying a legally purchased handgun 4 days before your appointment to obtain your concealed carry permit does. I'm not even going to justify the stupidity of the "prevented a mass shooting" with a serious response, because that's a reach for even MC to make. And he was going between 35-40 in a residential zone per the court records, not "double in a school zone".

FWIW, my indifference to Mazi has nothing to do with his team affiliation and everything to do with the fact that 1) requiring a permit to carry is stupid and unconstitutional and I'd feel exactly the same about a Spartan in this situation and 2) Michigan allows open carry without a permit so them even pursuing charges in this case are ridiculous.

Also, for someone that likes to get on your high horse about rant about a blue wall, I'm not aware of any Washtenaw county ADs that were prosecuted for repeatedly subverting the justice system. Granted, all of the charges against Dunning's were regarding his hookers, but it's hard to believe he didn't pick up the phone for Izzo or Dantonio.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...utors-ties-prostitutes-records-show/92914706/

Side note, I love how the DA at the time repeatedly ignored or missed the numerous red flags with this dude but somehow got promoted and is now one of the worst governors in the country. That's actually probably more on A2 than it is EL though.

 

[Michchamp]

More like Mel Tugger

:lmao:

Oh, man, that never gets old!

 

[Spartanmack]

Again with the one single example you have with Gibbons/Lewan? Which occurred when an AD, Coach and school president who are all gone and have NOT been invited back in an official capacity with the school? Considering you're trying to make the case that MSU didn't cover for this shit you might want to read up on Keith Appling, who raped a student as a recruit and was still admitted to schoool and allowed to play 4 years for the school. He eventually escalated to murdering a 66 year old man in Detroit, wouldn't have happened had he been locked up for the rape.

And just to be clear, you're telling me that a DUI where the BAC is 0.234 isn't a big deal because it was an "offseason misdemeanor"? Not to mention the other DUI, several physical assualts and 7 repeat offenses that you completely dismissed as "no big deal". It's not like driving while you're blackout drunk endangers people or anything.

Speaking of endangering people, driving while you're blackout drunk definitely doesn't endanger people the way that carrying a legally purchased handgun 4 days before your appointment to obtain your concealed carry permit does. I'm not even going to justify the stupidity of the "prevented a mass shooting" with a serious response, because that's a reach for even MC to make. And he was going between 35-40 in a residential zone per the court records, not "double in a school zone".

FWIW, my indifference to Mazi has nothing to do with his team affiliation and everything to do with the fact that 1) requiring a permit to carry is stupid and unconstitutional and I'd feel exactly the same about a Spartan in this situation and 2) Michigan allows open carry without a permit so them even pursuing charges in this case are ridiculous.

Also, for someone that likes to get on your high horse about rant about a blue wall, I'm not aware of any Washtenaw county ADs that were prosecuted for repeatedly subverting the justice system. Granted, all of the charges against Dunning's were regarding his hookers, but it's hard to believe he didn't pick up the phone for Izzo or Dantonio.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...utors-ties-prostitutes-records-show/92914706/

Side note, I love how the DA at the time repeatedly ignored or missed the numerous red flags with this dude but somehow got promoted and is now one of the worst governors in the country. That's actually probably more on A2 than it is EL though.

One single example? I guess you missed the part about Mazi Smith never missing a single down for illegally carrying a gun with enough ammo to shoot up an entire school. I'm not condoning or dismissing drunk driving or saying it's safe. I'm making the point that it's not a violent crime, wasn't covered up or something worthy of a suspension when it doesn't happen during the season. By the way, is driving 2x the speed limit past a school during the day with loaded illegally concealed pistol and 40+ rounds of ammo safe in your mind?

I guess you're not aware but our AD and school president during the Nasser (uofm alum, by the way) ordeal are all gone as well. Dantonio wasn't fired because he was investigated and found to have acted properly and by the book.

And get your facts straight - Appling's accuser admitted to police during the investigation that everything that happened was consensual and when she withdrew consent, everything stopped. He didn't rape anyone, it was another case of regret after the fact. Of course that's not an endorsement of Appling or his actions after leaving MSU but your attempt to hold the University responsible for that is bullshit.

And I'm not the one on their high horse. I'm pointing out your obvious double standards, your bullshit about cover ups that never happened and your lies about Dantonio not suspending players that were in fact suspended. Get off your own high horse.

Edit: I went back and read your full unhinged rant - you did address the Smith incident. I'm pro second amendment too but guess what, it doesn't matter. Smith clearly broke several laws, serious ones that put the lives of people in danger - school kids. And uofm COVERED IT UP for almost a whole season and would have covered it up longer if it wasn't leaked. I bet the people at uofm who allowed for the cover think very differently about guns than you or I do - except when they're carried illegally by people who wear a particular uniform and can tackle really well. But Smith didn't miss a single down, so again, get off your high horse. They're hypocrites and so are you.

 

[Michchamp]

LOL, Tucker won't go to his own hearing because he has "a medical issue." Fucking coward.

MSU fans were slobbering over this wannabe tough guy for the last three years for posting pics of himself with cigars, his slingshot, and big dogs... dumb as shit.

Tucker's lawyer claiming a new mystery witness has claimed "under oath" that a real relationship existed between the two, and texts from Tracy to another woman - who is of course dead and cannot testify, show a relationship as well.

The legal equivalent of a bad half court heave to force OT...

 

[bphillips4gg]

One single example? I guess you missed the part about Mazi Smith never missing a single down for illegally carrying a gun with enough ammo to shoot up an entire school. I'm not condoning or dismissing drunk driving or saying it's safe. I'm making the point that it's not a violent crime, wasn't covered up or something worthy of a suspension when it doesn't happen during the season. By the way, is driving 2x the speed limit past a school during the day with loaded illegally concealed pistol and 40+ rounds of ammo safe in your mind?

I guess you're not aware but our AD and school president during the Nasser (uofm alum, by the way) ordeal are all gone as well. Dantonio wasn't fired because he was investigated and found to have acted properly and by the book.

And get your facts straight - Appling's accuser admitted to police during the investigation that everything that happened was consensual and when she withdrew consent, everything stopped. He didn't rape anyone, it was another case of regret after the fact. Of course that's not an endorsement of Appling or his actions after leaving MSU but your attempt to hold the University responsible for that is bullshit.

And I'm not the one on their high horse. I'm pointing out your obvious double standards, your bullshit about cover ups that never happened and your lies about Dantonio not suspending players that were in fact suspended. Get off your own high horse.

Edit: I went back and read your full unhinged rant - you did address the Smith incident. I'm pro second amendment too but guess what, it doesn't matter. Smith clearly broke several laws, serious ones that put the lives of people in danger - school kids. And uofm COVERED IT UP for almost a whole season and would have covered it up longer if it wasn't leaked. I bet the people at uofm who allowed for the cover think very differently about guns than you or I do - at least about illegal guns carried by people other than people who can tackle and wear a particular uniform. But Smith didn't miss a single down, so again, get off your high horse. They're hypocrites and so are you.

Now it's unhinged to point out your clear double-standards. It's totally excusable to have a DUI as long as it doesn't happen between September and January, because that's the offseason. However, possessing a firearm that you legally purchased...not okay.

And for the record, I am not accusing MSU of covering up anything. My issue is with the fact that they didn't even care enough about the repeated offenses of multiple scumbags to even bother to cover it up. There's no fucking excuse to allow a player to play days after he's released from jail. None. There's no excuse for allowing a player to continue to be a part of the program when he's arrested 7 TIMES FOR THE SAME OFFENSE. There's no excuse for ignoring repeated instances of sexual abuse from age 11-18 for a kid you're recruiting.

And again, both the "school zone" and the "double the speed" is a flat-out lie. He was doing "between 35-40" in a "25 mph zone" in a "residential neighborhood". Even if it was a school zone, he was pulled over at 9:30am which is outside the hours that school zone limits are enforced.

"The officer pulled Smith over for almost doubling the speed limit through a residential neighborhood, said Det. Jon McDonagh during sworn testimony Nov. 30, before Washtenaw County Magistrate James Cameron.

Smith was traveling through a 25 mph zone at more than 50 mph, McDonagh estimated. Shea disputed this, however, and the police report corroborates his claims that Mazi?s speed was between 35-40 mph."

Source - https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbo...ads-guilty-to-misdemeanor-weapons-charge.html

And regardless of whether or not he had a gun on him driving past a school, no that does not immediately make him a threat to "shoot up a school". Are SROs, who have a loaded gun with 2-4 extra 17 round magazines on their belt automatically a danger to the schools they serve in? So now we're not allowed to drive past a school (not onto the school grounds, mind you) when we're carrying or traveling to/from a range or hunting spot? What an idiotic argument for anyone, let alone someone who claims to be "pro 2A". You're so blinded by hate for anything UM that you're willing to sacrifice your own convictions to assume guilt. And you want to call me a hypocrite.

 

[bphillips4gg]

Forgot to mention Appling since we're talking cover-ups. Color me shocked that a victim doesn't press charges when the prosecutor essentially tells her that she's going to get crushed because this is MSU basketball she's going after. I'm sure it's a total coincidence that said prosecutor then got a job at MSU, right?

Schaner says campus police investigators told her that, because of Payne's police interview, they had a solid case to pursue. Once the case was forwarded from police to Ingham County prosecutors, Schaner was interviewed by an assistant prosecutor, Debra Rousseau Martinez. Schaner says Martinez told her she did not seem strong enough to stand up to questioning that would come as a result of making allegations against MSU basketball players.

No charges were filed in the case. The assistant prosecutor, Martinez, now works for Michigan State's Title IX office. She declined to comment on Schaner's case.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/i...on-michigan-state-goes-larry-nassar-case-espn

 

[Spartanmack]

Now it's unhinged to point out your clear double-standards. It's totally excusable to have a DUI as long as it doesn't happen between September and January, because that's the offseason. However, possessing a firearm that you legally purchased...not okay.

And for the record, I am not accusing MSU of covering up anything. My issue is with the fact that they didn't even care enough about the repeated offenses of multiple scumbags to even bother to cover it up. There's no fucking excuse to allow a player to play days after he's released from jail. None. There's no excuse for allowing a player to continue to be a part of the program when he's arrested 7 TIMES FOR THE SAME OFFENSE. There's no excuse for ignoring repeated instances of sexual abuse from age 11-18 for a kid you're recruiting.

No, it's unhinged to make up lies about incidents you don't know the details of to try to impugn an entire university, it's coaches, etc. Like saying I think it's totally excusable to drive drunk to do anything else illegal or inappropriate during the offseason. That's just nonsense and really stupid and not even close to what I said. Sure, I don't think a kid should be suspended or kicked off the team for a nonviolent violation, particularly out of season. There are other, totally appropriate measures to take.

And again, both the "school zone" and the "double the speed" is a flat-out lie. He was doing "between 35-40" in a "25 mph zone" in a "residential neighborhood". Even if it was a school zone, he was pulled over at 9:30am which is outside the hours that school zone limits are enforced.

"The officer pulled Smith over for almost doubling the speed limit through a residential neighborhood, said Det. Jon McDonagh during sworn testimony Nov. 30, before Washtenaw County Magistrate James Cameron.

Smith was traveling through a 25 mph zone at more than 50 mph, McDonagh estimated. Shea disputed this, however, and the police report corroborates his claims that Mazi?s speed was between 35-40 mph."

Source - https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbo...ads-guilty-to-misdemeanor-weapons-charge.html

And regardless of whether or not he had a gun on him driving past a school, no that does not immediately make him a threat to "shoot up a school". Are SROs, who have a loaded gun with 2-4 extra 17 round magazines on their belt automatically a danger to the schools they serve in? So now we're not allowed to drive past a school (not onto the school grounds, mind you) when we're carrying or traveling to/from a range or hunting spot? What an idiotic argument for anyone, let alone someone who claims to be "pro 2A". You're so blinded by hate for anything UM that you're willing to sacrifice your own convictions to assume guilt. And you want to call me a hypocrite.

My bad he was driving at "almost" double the speed limit, not quite double. Please forgive me. But I didn't say that makes him a threat to "shoot up a school." The clear and obvious threat comes from travelling at a dangerously high rate of speed - that it makes him a threat to injure or kill a pedestrian, another motorist or himself. Do you really not see that? It's the illegally possessed concealed firearm with a shit ton of ammunition that makes him a potential threat for shooting someone.

I don't actually think he was going to commit a mass shooting, although the probability is certainly not zero. I just enjoy watching you light your hair on fire when I give you a taste of your own medicine with an obviously hyperbolic statement. The point is he committed multiple potentially dangerous crimes and the school and program covered it up and didn't suspend or punish him in any way. That's undeniable. Whether you don't care because he wears a uofm uniform, or your stance on gun laws and speed limits is totally irrelevant. I'm really OK with you or anyone else driving by a school with your hunting rifle in the trunk, just please, obey the speed limit.

Also, I don't hate uofm - they're actually my second favorite team. I just don't like hypocrites or people that make up bs to impugn a school they don't like - you know the whole "glass houses" thing. I also don't like when people ascribe arguments to me that I'm not making. I'm always going to call that out. I wouldn't have said a word about Mazi Smith, Lewan, Gibbons, the second biggest scandal in NCAA basketball history or anything else if you weren't a hypocrite, particularly when you lied or misrepresented so many of the details of those incidents you brought up about MSU.

 

[bphillips4gg]

No, it's unhinged to make up lies about incidents you don't know the details of to try to impugn an entire university, it's coaches, etc. Like saying I think it's totally excusable to drive drunk to do anything else illegal or inappropriate during the offseason. That's just nonsense and really stupid and not even close to what I said. Sure, I don't think a kid should be suspended or kicked off the team for a nonviolent violation, particularly out of season. There are other, totally appropriate measures to take.



My bad he was driving at "almost" double the speed limit, not quite double. Please forgive me. But I didn't say that makes him a threat to "shoot up a school." The clear and obvious threat comes from travelling at a dangerously high rate of speed - it's undeniable that it makes him a threat to injure or kill a pedestrian, another motorist or himself. Do you really not see that? It's the illegally possessed concealed firearm with a shit ton of ammunition that makes him a potential threat for shooting someone. I don't think he was going to commit a mass shooting, although the probability is certainly not zero. I just enjoy watching you light your hair on fire over what is an obviously hyperbolic statement.

Also, I don't hate uofm - they're actually my second favorite team. I just don't like hypocrites or people that make up bs to impugn a school they hate, or people who ascribe arguments to me that I'm not making. I'm always going to call that out.

"Like saying I think it's totally excusable to drive drunk to do anything else illegal or inappropriate during the offseason. That's just nonsense and really stupid and not even close to what I said."
What you said: "But please, tell me more about MacGaret Kings' offseason misdemeanors..."

If 10-15 MPH over is "almost double" (80% of the way to double, 50% of the excess speed) then describing a 0.234 BAC (275% of the .08 limit) as "offseason misdemeanors" would certainly qualify as "close" to saying it's excusable behavior.

1. I'm not disputing that it's not dangerous to speed and you're moving the goal posts by suggesting that was the point of contention in this discussion until now.

2. I don't think that 10-15 MPH over is something that anyone whose ever driven a car can say they haven't done. I've done it, you've done it, everyone has done it.

3. 50-60 rounds is far from "a shitload of ammo" and a typical CCW class requires around 50 rounds for range certification. So now we're not allowed to even possess enough ammo to complete the certification to make it legal to carry? That's some democrat logic.

4. I've already admitted that IDGAF about his allegedly "carrying illegally" because it's an unconstitutional law (one that's likely to be gone within the next few years). It could be Kyle McCord in this situation and I still wouldn't feel any different about it.

5. It seems that we agree on the idea that kicking a kid off the team for a dumb mistake isn't always the correct approach, but you're still insisting Michigan mishandled Mazi's situation while also acknowledging that it would've been a non-issue if he had a piece of plastic...which he had an appointment to get 4 days later. More democrat logic.

 

[bphillips4gg]

I just don't like hypocrites or people that make up bs to impugn a school they don't like - you know the whole "glass houses" thing. I also don't like when people ascribe arguments to me that I'm not making. I'm always going to call that out. I wouldn't have said a word about Mazi Smith, Lewan, Gibbons, the second biggest scandal in NCAA basketball history or anything else if you weren't a hypocrite, particularly when you lied or misrepresented so many of the details of those incidents you brought up about MSU.

Let's re-visit where this began. I respond to GT's post about a hockey player that's spray painted dumb shit on a sidewalk stating that he was immediately removed from the team. You quote that saying that it's not good enough, I'm somehow a hypocrite because Dantonio immediately kicked 3 rapists off the team. I point out that the issue with Dantonio wasn't the handling of that incident, but the handling of a dozen other offenses by MSU players during his tenure that resulted in ZERO games of team-imposed suspensions. Also that he recruited a kid that had red flags regarding sexual assault from age 11 through to the time he joined the program (Dantonio knew about this) who then, to the surprise of noone, raped a girl once he was at MSU.

So I'm being a hypocrite here because I am okay with Brandon Naruto, a coach that hasn't turned a blind eye to multiple serious offenses worse than spray-painting a sidewalk, kicked a kid off the team immediately for spray-painting a sidewalk? Did I get that all right?

 

[Spartanmack]

LOL, Tucker won't go to his own hearing because he has "a medical issue." Fucking coward.

MSU fans were slobbering over this wannabe tough guy for the last three years for posting pics of himself with cigars, his slingshot, and big dogs... dumb as shit.

Tucker's lawyer claiming a new mystery witness has claimed "under oath" that a real relationship existed between the two, and texts from Tracy to another woman - who is of course dead and cannot testify, show a relationship as well.

The legal equivalent of a bad half court heave to force OT...

Just for shits and giggles, presumably these texts came discovery evidence from Tracy's phone records, or can be confirmed that they were indeed between Tracy and this other witness. If that turns out to be the case (I'm not saying it is) and they indicate there was a relationship, what will you say then? Will you just disappear like you did when "hands up don't shoot" was proven to be a lie? Or will you continue to push the lie like you do with the Martin, Garner, Floyd and so many other cases?

 

[Spartanmack]

Let's re-visit where this began. I respond to GT's post about a hockey player that's spray painted dumb shit on a sidewalk stating that he was immediately removed from the team. You quote that saying that it's not good enough, I'm somehow a hypocrite because Dantonio immediately kicked 3 rapists off the team.

That's definitely not true, I didn't call you a hypocrite until much later. This was my response...

Not good enough. That's exactly what Dantonio did with players that engaged in unacceptable behavior and still to this day he's pilloried and reviled for other peoples' version of the events.

It should be pretty obvious that post was sarcasm - I think what uofm did here was totally appropriate just like how Dantonio handled the sexual assault cases in 2017. It's not my fault you didn't get the joke or that from there you started shit posting and misrepresenting events to explain why it's different for Dantonio.

I point out that the issue with Dantonio wasn't the handling of that incident, but the handling of a dozen other offenses by MSU players during his tenure that resulted in ZERO games of team-imposed suspensions. Also that he recruited a kid that had red flags regarding sexual assault from age 11 through to the time he joined the program (Dantonio knew about this) who then, to the surprise of noone, raped a girl once he was at MSU.

most of those incidents were fairly minor misdemeanors, not really worthy of suspensions, which isn't the only form of punishment/remediation particularly for offseason incidents. And you you were either flat out wrong or lied about some of the details (i.e. Delton Williams not being suspended, Appling raping a women who admitted to giving consent, Dantonio covering up sexual assault, etc - I don't even know who this Dunning guy is). You have no idea what disciplinary measures were taken short of suspension for those minor, non violent offenses. And I find it interesting and funny that you think a guy with an illegal concealed handgun and a boat load of ammunition is less of a threat than a guy who drove on a suspended license a few times.

So I'm being a hypocrite here because I am okay with Brandon Naruto, a coach that hasn't turned a blind eye to multiple serious offenses worse than spray-painting a sidewalk, kicked a kid off the team immediately for spray-painting a sidewalk? Did I get that all right?

You got almost none of it right.

 

[bphillips4gg]

That's definitely not true, I didn't call you a hypocrite until much later. This was my response...

And that post was sarcasm - I think what uofm did here was totally appropriate just like how Dantonio handled the sexual assault cases in 2017. It's not my fault you didn't get the joke or that from there you started shit posting and misrepresenting events to explain why it's different for Dantonio.

most of those incidents were fairly minor misdemeanors, not really worthy of suspensions, which isn't the only form of punishment/remediation. And you you were either flat out wrong or lied about some of the details (i.e. Delton Williams not being suspended, Appling raping a women who admitted to giving consent, Dantonio covering up sexual assault, etc - I don't even know who this Dunning guy is). You have no idea what disciplinary measures were taken short of suspension for those minor, non violent offenses. And I find it interesting and funny that you think a guy with an illegal concealed handgun is less of a threat than a guy who drove on a suspended license a few times.

You got almost none of it right.

I see you're going to continue to double/triple/quadruple down on semantics.

You may not have used the word hypocrite, but the implication in your first post was that it would be hypocritical of UM fans to accept the response from UM Hockey. Your sarcasm was noted, but ignoring it would be akin to you ignoring a MC post about "hands up don't shoot".

You continue to make claims that I'm lying, conflating, etc these different examples and (much like you often accuse MC of doing) completely failing to back up your side with sources. I've provided mine. And since you yet again tried to downplay the severity of a DIT a "fairly minor" and "non-violent", I feel like pointing out that drunk driving (not even including other forms of intoxication) lead to 13,384 deaths in 2021 according to the DOT. So at best you're being disingenuous about the severity of that crime, at worst you're completely ignoring it because it's an inconvenience to your argument.

Source - https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving

Now, onto other examples that you mentioned, I noticed you didn't bother to respond directly to the last Appling link I posted. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's because you missed it. But the victim in that case stated she didn't press charges because the prosecutor told her "she didn't appear strong enough to stand up to the questions that come along with accusing a MSU basketball player". That prosecutor then got a job in MSU's Title IX department. Quid pro quo or coincidence? I'm not sure, but I also haven't seen anything to support your claim that "the victim admitted it was consensual".

You haven't even attempted to discuss Auston Robertson or Chris Rucker. I'm guessing that's because even you can see there's no defense, especially for Robertson, but admitting as much means admitting that Dantonio was, in fact, a scumbag that put winning above everything.

And continuing to invoke Gibbons and Lewan is further proof of my point. I have already stated that I want the school and program to officially acknowledge that situation and cut ties with them. I want the same for Hoke since it happened on his watch. I would not be okay with Hoke returning to the program in any capacity, let alone continue to try to justify or defend him because "he finally got it right that one time". Most decent people don't need to get it wrong so many times to begin with, let alone need a pat on the back for doing the right thing.

Here's a few of the "fairly minor misdemeanors" that (again) resulted in zero games missed due to team-imposed suspensions.

Glenn Winston - https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2009/08/msu_running_back_glenn_winston_2.html

LJ Scott - https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...-arrested-faces-7th-driving-charge/779633001/

Delton Williams - https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...tates-delton-williams-football-team/30758335/

Chris Rucker - https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2010/10/michigan_states_chris_l_rucker_3.html

 

[Spartanmack]

I see you're going to continue to double/triple/quadruple down on semantics.

You may not have used the word hypocrite, but the implication in your first post was that it would be hypocritical of UM fans to accept the response from UM Hockey. Your sarcasm was noted, but ignoring it would be akin to you ignoring a MC post about "hands up don't shoot".

This is getting old in a hurry - the FIRST POST WAS SARCASM. It's not my fault you didn't get that and thought I was calling you a hypocrite. I didn't actually call you a hypocrite until you made it obvious you're a hypocrite.

You continue to make claims that I'm lying, conflating, etc these different examples and (much like you often accuse MC of doing) completely failing to back up your side with sources. I've provided mine. And since you yet again tried to downplay the severity of a DIT a "fairly minor" and "non-violent", I feel like pointing out that drunk driving (not even including other forms of intoxication) lead to 13,384 deaths in 2021 according to the DOT. So at best you're being disingenuous about the severity of that crime, at worst you're completely ignoring it because it's an inconvenience to your argument.

Source - https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving

Now, onto other examples that you mentioned, I noticed you didn't bother to respond directly to the last Appling link I posted. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's because you missed it. But the victim in that case stated she didn't press charges because the prosecutor told her "she didn't appear strong enough to stand up to the questions that come along with accusing a MSU basketball player". That prosecutor then got a job in MSU's Title IX department. Quid pro quo or coincidence? I'm not sure, but I also haven't seen anything to support your claim that "the victim admitted it was consensual".

You haven't even attempted to discuss Auston Robertson or Chris Rucker. I'm guessing that's because even you can see there's no defense, especially for Robertson, but admitting as much means admitting that Dantonio was, in fact, a scumbag that put winning above everything.

Hey great stat - 37 people die each day in drunk driving incidents in america. Did you know there are 57 gun involved murders every day in America?

You're either misrepresenting, cherry picking bad sources or lying, it really doesn't matter which one it is but you're getting a lot of details wrong. This has all already been beaten to death, I don't feel the need to dig up 6 year old stories but Appling's accuser recanted, said it was consensual and that everything stopped when she withdrew consent. And oh by the way, Adrian Payne lost his NBA career over that because of all the misreporting around it and a few years later, he was murdered trying to help a family member. If the facts of the case were fairly reported, that never would have happened. Delton Williams was suspended and earned his way back on the team and finished his career at MSU without further incident. Mark Dantonio reported both the Auston Roberts incident and the Corley, King and whoever incidents and suspended players immediately. I didn't mention Auston Roberts earlier because you didn't mention Auston Roberts. He also fired a coach/consultant who interfered in the investigation. It's not my fault you choose to ignore these facts and quote sources that ignore them because you want to think the worst of them. You can look them up yourself or not, I don't care.

And continuing to invoke Gibbons and Lewan is further proof of my point. I have already stated that I want the school and program to officially acknowledge that situation and cut ties with them. I want the same for Hoke since it happened on his watch. I would not be okay with Hoke returning to the program in any capacity, let alone continue to try to justify or defend him because "he finally got it right that one time". Most decent people don't need to get it wrong so many times to begin with, let alone need a pat on the back for doing the right thing.

Funny how you guys can keep mentioning the 2 sexual assault cases to impugn Dantonio but somehow "invoking" Lewan and Gibbons from roughly the same time is off limits. Is that maybe because Dantonio acted appropriately while the scumbags at uofm covered up a rape for two years then patted themselves on the back for suspending two players who had no eligibility left? Yeah, that about sums it up perfectly.

Here's a few of the "fairly minor misdemeanors" that (again) resulted in zero games missed due to team-imposed suspensions.

Glenn Winston - https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2009/08/msu_running_back_glenn_winston_2.html

LJ Scott - https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...-arrested-faces-7th-driving-charge/779633001/

Delton Williams - https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...tates-delton-williams-football-team/30758335/

Chris Rucker - https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2010/10/michigan_states_chris_l_rucker_3.html

I already said the Winston thing was a mistake and Dantonio thankfully learned from it. I guess you missed that.

LJ Scott, wow he's a recidivist driving on a suspended license. I can't believe he didn't have his life ruined. You really got me there.

Williams was suspended, and had to earn his way back on the team. He did and had no further incidents.

As for Rucker, I guess instead of driving under the influence, he should have just driven wrecklessly (but not quite 2x the speed limit) past an elementary school through a residential neighborhood with an illegal handgun and 50 rounds of ammunition. Then you would have been OK if MSU had covered it up (which they didn't) and let him play every down. And Rucker actually went to jail and missed two games and you act like he got off scot free - how many games did Smith miss again?

 

[Spartanmack]

Now, onto other examples that you mentioned, I noticed you didn't bother to respond directly to the last Appling link I posted. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's because you missed it. But the victim in that case stated she didn't press charges because the prosecutor told her "she didn't appear strong enough to stand up to the questions that come along with accusing a MSU basketball player". That prosecutor then got a job in MSU's Title IX department. Quid pro quo or coincidence? I'm not sure, but I also haven't seen anything to support your claim that "the victim admitted it was consensual".

It's kind of arrogant for you to think everything you post is somehow worthy of a response, but just to be clear is this what you're referring to?

Forgot to mention Appling since we're talking cover-ups. Color me shocked that a victim doesn't press charges when the prosecutor essentially tells her that she's going to get crushed because this is MSU basketball she's going after. I'm sure it's a total coincidence that said prosecutor then got a job at MSU, right?

Schaner says campus police investigators told her that, because of Payne's police interview, they had a solid case to pursue. Once the case was forwarded from police to Ingham County prosecutors, Schaner was interviewed by an assistant prosecutor, Debra Rousseau Martinez. Schaner says Martinez told her she did not seem strong enough to stand up to questioning that would come as a result of making allegations against MSU basketball players.

No charges were filed in the case. The assistant prosecutor, Martinez, now works for Michigan State's Title IX office. She declined to comment on Schaner's case.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/i...on-michigan-state-goes-larry-nassar-case-espn

It's particularly arrogant to expect a response when you cite ESPN's OTL report that's been proven to be full of multiple lies and misrepresentations. Silly you, probably thought ESPN only mistreated uofm. Here's just one of many, you can consider this my direct response.

ESPN Made Up Quote Attributed to Payne During Police Interview

From ESPN "According to a police report, Payne told officers that he could ?understand how she would feel that she was not free to leave.? Payne was concerned about her reaction to the circumstances and had even asked Appling to apologize to her, the report stated. Payne told officers that he had apologized to Schaner because ?it seemed she felt that they ?disrespected? her.?

Sounds pretty damning, except according to the video taped interview, Payne NEVER SAID THAT. They made it up and it's not like it's some small lie, they claimed Payne basically admitted to kidnapping and rape when he said nothing of the sort. It is true that he apologized because he was worried she thought they disrespected her, but it's a bit of stretch to conflate disrespect with rape.

That's just one of many lies and misrepresentations in the ESPN OTL report. You treat it as bible, but I know much of it has been debunked. ESPN doesn't give a shit about the truth or the consequences of falsely maligning innocent people. If you want more proof of it, dig up the thread from 2017.

Are you happy now that I've responded directly to your ESPN link that's full of lies?

 

[gotime909]

Spray painting racist and antisemitic shit is a hate crime you fanboy. It's not just "spray painting a sidewalk"

 

[bphillips4gg]

Spray painting racist and antisemitic shit is a hate crime you fanboy. It's not just "spray painting a sidewalk"

It wasn't anti-semitic shit. It was a dick with the word "f*g" next to it which happened to be on a sidewalk outside of the Jewish center. It's not a "hate crime" unless you're an over-sensitive pussy that's looking for an excuse to be a victim. Instead of ignoring people who do ignorant shit now people amplify it and give them the attention they were looking for in the first place.

 

[bphillips4gg]

This is getting old in a hurry - the FIRST POST WAS SARCASM. It's not my fault you didn't get that and thought I was calling you a hypocrite. I didn't actually call you a hypocrite until you made it obvious you're a hypocrite.



Hey great stat - 37 people die each day in drunk driving incidents in america. Did you know there are 57 gun involved murders every day in America?

You're either misrepresenting, cherry picking bad sources or lying, it really doesn't matter which one it is but you're getting a lot of details wrong. This has all already been beaten to death, I don't feel the need to dig up 6 year old stories but Appling's accuser recanted, said it was consensual and that everything stopped when she withdrew consent. And oh by the way, Adrian Payne lost his NBA career over that because of all the misreporting around it and a few years later, he was murdered trying to help a family member. If the facts of the case were fairly reported, that never would have happened. Delton Williams was suspended and earned his way back on the team and finished his career at MSU without further incident. Mark Dantonio reported both the Auston Roberts incident and the Corley, King and whoever incidents and suspended players immediately. I didn't mention Auston Roberts earlier because you didn't mention Auston Roberts. He also fired a coach/consultant who interfered in the investigation. It's not my fault you choose to ignore these facts and quote sources that ignore them because you want to think the worst of them. You can look them up yourself or not, I don't care.



Funny how you guys can keep mentioning the 2 sexual assault cases to impugn Dantonio but somehow "invoking" Lewan and Gibbons from roughly the same time is off limits. Is that maybe because Dantonio acted appropriately while the scumbags at uofm covered up a rape for two years then patted themselves on the back for suspending two players who had no eligibility left? Yeah, that about sums it up perfectly.



I already said the Winston thing was a mistake and Dantonio thankfully learned from it. I guess you missed that.

LJ Scott, wow he's a recidivist driving on a suspended license. I can't believe he didn't have his life ruined. You really got me there.

Williams was suspended, and had to earn his way back on the team. He did and had no further incidents.

As for Rucker, I guess instead of driving under the influence, he should have just driven wrecklessly (but not quite 2x the speed limit) past an elementary school through a residential neighborhood with an illegal handgun and 50 rounds of ammunition. Then you would have been OK if MSU had covered it up (which they didn't) and let him play every down. And Rucker actually went to jail and missed two games and you act like he got off scot free - how many games did Smith miss again?

There you go again lying about a school zone, an "illegal handgun" and as if 1 box of ammunition is some obscene amount. Also, DUI endangers the lives of every single person you encounter on the road. How you can suggest the driving drunk isn't wreckless is moronic. As is saying that missing games for being in jail is the same as a suspension.

However, seeing as you're perfectly fine with the punishment being limited to what the court orders I don't know why you feel like Mazi deserves to miss any games anyway. He did his community service and paid his fines. So what do you care?

 

[Spartanmack]

There you go again lying about a school zone, an "illegal handgun" and as if 1 box of ammunition is some obscene amount. Also, DUI endangers the lives of every single person you encounter on the road. How you can suggest the driving drunk isn't wreckless is moronic. As is saying that missing games for being in jail is the same as a suspension.

However, seeing as you're perfectly fine with the punishment being limited to what the court orders I don't know why you feel like Mazi deserves to miss any games anyway. He did his community service and paid his fines. So what do you care?

Mazi was arrested and allowed to play a whole season while the program and school covered it up. He was never punished (at least not until he was done tackling people for uofm when he received a slap on the wrist) and the school hid the infraction as long as they could - something you think is unique to MSU. That's complete BS, your school protects it's programs and players as much or more than anyone else and the evidence of that is undeniable.

I'm not lying about any of that and I never suggest DUI wasn't reckless (no "w") nor did I say missing games while in jail was the same as a suspension. That's just you mischaracterizing and making up arguments I'm not making again. But missing games is missing games - sounds like Dantonio and staff agreed the 2 games and jailtime was punishment was enough. And based on the following, it seems like more than what happens to Wolverines nabbed for DUI:

Graham Glasgow was suspended for part of Spring football for DUI - whoa he missed a couple practices, that's like borderline Zero Tolerance stuff.
Kevin Grady blew 3.5x the legal limit, no suspension for DUI, Rich Rod said it was being "handled internally"
Darryl Stonum, no suspension for his 1st DUI, finally suspended for his 2nd

I'm sure there's more but the first 3 from Google make the point pretty clearly. Seems like even in Ann Arbor where they do everything by the book, (except when players rape then threaten to rape the same victim again, or drive 2x the speed limit with an illegal weapon and tons of ammo), players don't get suspended for a first time DUI misdemeanor. Now, can you please sTFU and spare me you're BS about this being unique to Dantonio or MSU?

 

[Spartanmack]

It wasn't anti-semitic shit. It was a dick with the word "f*g" next to it which happened to be on a sidewalk outside of the Jewish center. It's not a "hate crime" unless you're an over-sensitive pussy that's looking for an excuse to be a victim. Instead of ignoring people who do ignorant shit now people amplify it and give them the attention they were looking for in the first place.

Personally, I think the whole idea of hate crimes is dumb, totally subjective, impossible to prove and fans the flames of this moronic identity politics that's dividing the country. A crime is a crime and they pretty much all come from a place of hate. I also think kicking a kid off the team and out of school for vandalism is dumb and overly harsh.

But I have no doubt the alphabet people would probably disagree that the word "fag" doesn't constitute a hate crime and I bet the powers that be and a huge chunk of the student body are treating it as a hate crime. I'm sure they're even linking it to anti-Semitism because of where it happened.