Did Tuck say he's "comin'"???

[Michchamp]

I have a hard time posting that I don't believe her before the facts come out(if they ever really do). But im definitely not gonna post that I do believe her.

I don't know why you guys keep bringing her up, except to drag her into the mud as well. Tucker's actions are indensible on their own, regardless of what she might have done or not done. FWIW, apparently lots of other teams have hired her (including UM) and these issues haven't come up anywhere else!

it's not like she had a modicum of power here; Tucker and MSU hired her, and according to the record, at the same time he was trying to get her to agree to be his side piece, cancelled her later appearances with the team. So if anyone was playing games here, it seems like it would be him.

Maybe you and MAck's Fox News-addled-brains just reflexively jump to "blame the rape victim" whenever this kind of thing comes up?


Regardless, I doubt anyone hires her again for a while. If ever.

 

[Michchamp]

Here's why her story does not add up to me.

1. She claims that she rebuffed him at every turn, yet there's no evidence to suggest that she ever refused or returned his lavish gifts
2. She spent 30+ minutes on the phone with him regularly claiming that it was all work-related, but it never occurred during work hours
3. She doesn't have any of the text messages to support her claims. It makes sense that the married man who was pursuing would delete them all, it does NOT make sense that someone who is the victim of sexual harassment would delete the evidence
4. The timing of the report is suspicious, her reasons for waiting so long are even more suspicious. It doesn't take 10 months for someone that does what she does to come to the realization that you need to report the incident. It was only reported after all other revenue streams from MSU were dried up

I am not defending The Tugger. He's a scumbag. What I'm saying is that his account of events don't leave nearly as many questions as hers, and those questions were never even asked of her. I don't even disagree with him that MSU is using this as an opportunity to fire him and get out of the contract.

The problem is, he gave them that opportunity. I don't think there's any defense of the relationship since he was the superior and she was the subordinate. And while I don't disagree that have phone sex with a side chick isn't any of MSU's business, doing so with a subordinate is against the employee policy for every employer in the country and for good reason.

And the AD and president may as well resign. Someone is going to be the scapegoat for the way this was handled. There's no way the only one that pays is Mel.

No, She filed her complaint at MSU in December 2022. Her first appearance with the team was April 2022; Tucker cancelled later appearances with her, at the same time he was sending her gifts, complaining about his wife, and asking her to be his sidepiece. That all occurred up through July/August 2022. So she waited ~3-4 months to file her complaint, not 10.

I think - even viewing this in the light least favorable to her - you have to acknowledge she had no power or authority over anyone here; Tucker did with respect to her contract for speaking engagements.

The biggest question I have is for the MSU AD & University Administration. They had the complaint in December 2022. Why the hell did they wait until Mid-September 2023 to fire him?

This wasn't a complicated matter with a lot to investigate... you have a couple computers and phones, and emails between her and anyone with a @msu.edu email address to review. There couldn't have been THAT many of those for a handful of speaking engagements. What the hell were they doing from, say January 1, 2023 to September 10, 2023?

 

[Spartanmack]

Here's why her story does not add up to me.

1. She claims that she rebuffed him at every turn, yet there's no evidence to suggest that she ever refused or returned his lavish gifts
2. She spent 30+ minutes on the phone with him regularly claiming that it was all work-related, but it never occurred during work hours
3. She doesn't have any of the text messages to support her claims. It makes sense that the married man who was pursuing would delete them all, it does NOT make sense that someone who is the victim of sexual harassment would delete the evidence
4. The timing of the report is suspicious, her reasons for waiting so long are even more suspicious. It doesn't take 10 months for someone that does what she does to come to the realization that you need to report the incident. It was only reported after all other revenue streams from MSU were dried up

I am not defending The Tugger. He's a scumbag. What I'm saying is that his account of events don't leave nearly as many questions as hers, and those questions were never even asked of her. I don't even disagree with him that MSU is using this as an opportunity to fire him and get out of the contract.

The problem is, he gave them that opportunity. I don't think there's any defense of the relationship since he was the superior and she was the subordinate. And while I don't disagree that have phone sex with a side chick isn't any of MSU's business, doing so with a subordinate is against the employee policy for every employer in the country and for good reason.

And the AD and president may as well resign. Someone is going to be the scapegoat for the way this was handled. There's no way the only one that pays is Mel.

I agree with all of this except the second to last paragraph - she?s not his subordinate and not dependent on him or MSU financially or otherwise. As MC said, lots of other schools use her services. She?s an indpependent contractor, 100% her own boss. She could and should have terminated the relationship and let MSU know the moment Mel crossed her line and didn?t respond appropriately to her objections if that?s actually what happened.

Also, from that same paragraph it?s not clear to me what MSU?s business is here. It?s likely these were actions among 2 consenting adults outside the scope of either?s job but there is the question of Mel cancelling (he says ??postponing?) her second speaking engagement. If she?s telling the truth and he cancelled based on her rebuffing his advances, MSU probably has some exposure there.

I?m sure Mel will claim MSU had no grounds to investigate but it seems clear they have justification for firing him for violating a clause of his contract - how do you enforce that without an investigation? As of now it seems like his best shot is to make a case about bias and due process violations to try to get some money from the school. He could be facing an extended period of unemployment and possibly an expensive divorce.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't know why you guys keep bringing her up, except to drag her into the mud as well. Tucker's actions are indensible on their own, regardless of what she might have done or not done. FWIW, apparently lots of other teams have hired her (including UM) and these issues haven't come up anywhere else!

it's not like she had a modicum of power here; Tucker and MSU hired her, and according to the record, at the same time he was trying to get her to agree to be his side piece, cancelled her later appearances with the team. So if anyone was playing games here, it seems like it would be him.

Maybe you and MAck's Fox News-addled-brains just reflexively jump to "blame the rape victim" whenever this kind of thing comes up?


Regardless, I doubt anyone hires her again for a while. If ever.

Lol, no matter how clear it is no one is ?blaming the victim? you keep using that tactic. It?s almost as reliable as your made up stories about what MSU fans are saying everywhere else so you can come here and trash them in an effort to make yourself feel better.

 

[Michchamp]

I agree with all of this except the second to last paragraph - she?s not his subordinate and not dependent on him or MSU financially or otherwise. As MC said, lots of other schools use her services. She?s an indpependent contractor, 100% her own boss. She could and should have terminated the relationship and let MSU know the moment Mel crossed her line and didn?t respond appropriately to her objections if that?s actually what happened.

...

Pathetic. Even assuming the mud you're slinging at her is true and she made everything up, on one side you have a coach with a $10MM/year salary and an multi-million dollar athletic department budget dangling speaking engagements over her to get her to agree to be his sidepiece and have sex with him. Sure, she's not financially dependent on him, but only because she didn't go along with it, and he cancelled her speaking engagements to punish her for that. Then she confidentially filed a Title IX complaint (not even a lawsuit), and didn't immediately go public with it or try to blackmail Tucker or MSU. She did everything you're expecting her to do, and you're still going out of your way to trash her reputation.

I don't know why you keep bringing her up anyway... it's not like anyone is asking you to hire her. At best, you're (trying to) come up with BS arguments to distract from the shit show in East Lansing... at worst you're a meathead who looks to punch down on someone whenever he can.

 

[Michchamp]

I didn't realize Haller was the AD when Tucker's contract extension/amendment was signed in 2021. I thought that was the previous guy. (link to his bio). He definitely needs to go...

He's been an actual MSU athletic department employee in some capacity since 2010, but sure likes to take credit for everything good that happened at MSU, going back to hiring Dantonio in '06/'07:

"During the football coaching search in 2006, Haller played a key role in the hiring process of Mark Dantonio, who went on to become the winningest coach in Spartan history, joining former MSU Athletics Director Ron Mason, head men?s basketball coach Tom Izzo, and Mark Hollis on the selection team."
​

Okay, so out of their actual AD, their next AD, and their legendary basketball coach, Haller (who was a cop at MSU at the time, and not an employee of the AD...) was the "key role"?

Get outta here! What a clown.

Actually, I hope MSU doesn't fire him... I can't wait to see who he hires to replace Tucker.

 

[Spartanmack]

I didn't realize Haller was the AD when Tucker's contract extension/amendment was signed in 2021. I thought that was the previous guy. (link to his bio). He definitely needs to go...

He's been an actual MSU athletic department employee in some capacity since 2010, but sure likes to take credit for everything good that happened at MSU, going back to hiring Dantonio in '06/'07:

"During the football coaching search in 2006, Haller played a key role in the hiring process of Mark Dantonio, who went on to become the winningest coach in Spartan history, joining former MSU Athletics Director Ron Mason, head men?s basketball coach Tom Izzo, and Mark Hollis on the selection team."
​

Okay, so out of their actual AD, their next AD, and their legendary basketball coach, Haller (who was a cop at MSU at the time, and not an employee of the AD...) was the "key role"?

Get outta here! What a clown.

Actually, I hope MSU doesn't fire him... I can't wait to see who he hires to replace Tucker.

Really? Because as I recall you were mocking Haller for the extension and blasting him again when he gave all the bonus money that was supposed to go to assistants to Tucker.

Plus it's common knowledge "the previous guy" was fired over the Nasser issue - no doubt you missed that though because you barely paid any attention to that. It's not like you nit picked every little detail (misrepresenting most of it) to trash MSU to make yourself feel better - because that's not something you'd spend time doing. Do you ever tell the truth?

 

[Spartanmack]

Pathetic. Even assuming the mud you're slinging at her is true and she made everything up, on one side you have a coach with a $10MM/year salary and an multi-million dollar athletic department budget dangling speaking engagements over her to get her to agree to be his sidepiece and have sex with him. Sure, she's not financially dependent on him, but only because she didn't go along with it, and he cancelled her speaking engagements to punish her for that. Then she confidentially filed a Title IX complaint (not even a lawsuit), and didn't immediately go public with it or try to blackmail Tucker or MSU. She did everything you're expecting her to do, and you're still going out of your way to trash her reputation.

LOL, she's not financially dependent on him but only because she didn't agree to be his side piece. If she had gone along with it, she would financially dependent on him and therefore HE had ALL the power.

Hard to believe but your posts keep getting dumber. Not hard to believe you'll misrepresent the facts and anything I say to fit your narrative and claim I'm blaming the victim. Acknowledging the fact pattern fits Tucker's claim better than hers is victim blaming and all who think that should be ashamed.

Again, what year of law school did they teach you "believe all women" no matter what (except when your kicker and offensive lineman are involved)? And if you don't get behind them 100% you're a misogynistic victim blamer!

I don't know why you keep bringing her up anyway... it's not like anyone is asking you to hire her. At best, you're (trying to) come up with BS arguments to distract from the shit show in East Lansing... at worst you're a meathead who looks to punch down on someone whenever he can.

LOLOLOL, what does that even mean? No one can have an opinion unless they're being asked to hire her? Why are you sharing yours then? It's not like anyone is asking you to hire her either, but here you are screaming at people who aren't convinced she's 100% truthful. That could be the most nonsensical rant I've seen on this board - impressive considering all the nonsensical garbage you've posted over the years.

And I'm not the one that keeps bringing her up - I've hardly said anything about her other than her story doesn't seem to add up. I'm also not trying to distract from what's going on in E Lansing. I literally said I believe there's almost NO CHANCE HALLER AND MSU DIDN'T MISHANDLE THIS SITUATION. I also said if Haller did screw this up, I hope he's held accountable too. Really sounds like I'm trying to distract from this situation - that's a good one.

Finally, I'm not doing anything to trash her reputation - neither is gotime or bphillips. We're having a perfectly reasonable conversation about what we think happened. Saying I think Tucker is telling the truth about it being consensual isn't trashing her reputation or slinging mud at her. I've even said several times it's impossible to know who is telling the truth and that even if Tucker is telling the truth, he's still a bad guy what he did was wrong and he should be fired.

Your dumbass is the only person I'm punching down on and you have no one to blame but yourself for that. That is truly comical coming from the guy who can't wait to start threads trashing MSU or anyone associated with it every chance he gets. Except you're so dumb, instead of punching down, you end up punching yourself in the dick every time.

 

[bphillips4gg]

No, She filed her complaint at MSU in December 2022. Her first appearance with the team was April 2022; Tucker cancelled later appearances with her, at the same time he was sending her gifts, complaining about his wife, and asking her to be his sidepiece. That all occurred up through July/August 2022. So she waited ~3-4 months to file her complaint, not 10.

I think - even viewing this in the light least favorable to her - you have to acknowledge she had no power or authority over anyone here; Tucker did with respect to her contract for speaking engagements.

The biggest question I have is for the MSU AD & University Administration. They had the complaint in December 2022. Why the hell did they wait until Mid-September 2023 to fire him?

This wasn't a complicated matter with a lot to investigate... you have a couple computers and phones, and emails between her and anyone with a @msu.edu email address to review. There couldn't have been THAT many of those for a handful of speaking engagements. What the hell were they doing from, say January 1, 2023 to September 10, 2023?

Your timeline is wrong. Her first speaking engagement with the team was August 21,she served as honorary captain for the 22 spring game, the call happened 12 days after the spring game. She didn't report it for 8 months and only did so when the money stopped coming in. I don't know if the two are connected but I also haven't ever heard a reasonable explanation as to why she didn?t report it for 8 months.

I completely agree about the timeline after that report. I'm actually glad that people are starting to ask why it took 9 months, $4.5MM and 2 games for Tucker to be suspended and why was he only suspended after it came to light? There's no excuse for it to take as long as it did and even less excuse that a decision wasn't made when the investigation was complete.

Edit: My point is I'm reserving judgment either way until the hearing in October. She's stated publicly that all of those questions will be answered and that she's got plenty of evidence to share at that time. I honestly don't understand why the idea of waiting for all the facts to come out is such a difficult concept to grasp for most people.

 

[bphillips4gg]

I agree with all of this except the second to last paragraph - she?s not his subordinate and not dependent on him or MSU financially or otherwise. As MC said, lots of other schools use her services. She?s an indpependent contractor, 100% her own boss. She could and should have terminated the relationship and let MSU know the moment Mel crossed her line and didn?t respond appropriately to her objections if that?s actually what happened.

Also, from that same paragraph it?s not clear to me what MSU?s business is here. It?s likely these were actions among 2 consenting adults outside the scope of either?s job but there is the question of Mel cancelling (he says ??postponing?) her second speaking engagement. If she?s telling the truth and he cancelled based on her rebuffing his advances, MSU probably has some exposure there.

I?m sure Mel will claim MSU had no grounds to investigate but it seems clear they have justification for firing him for violating a clause of his contract - how do you enforce that without an investigation? As of now it seems like his best shot is to make a case about bias and due process violations to try to get some money from the school. He could be facing an extended period of unemployment and possibly an expensive divorce.

From MSU's perspective she was his subordinate. Her being paid was contingent upon him being happy with her performance. So regardless of the fact that she was not listed under him in the employee directory he held a position of power over her.

And while I completely agree that it's none of their business what he does or who with, their employee policy included contractors in the definition of employee and he violated that policy even if his version of the story is 100% true. Given the dynamic of their professional relationship there's a very real possibility that she would feel that she could lose out on her $10k fee if she rebuffed him. And in this case he didn?t help himself by postponing the canceling her next engagement.

I don't think the "bring shame to the school" bologna would hold up in court if he had an only fans where he's jerking off on a hooker's browneye. But if that hooker was contracted as a caterer for the football team then it changes things.

 

[gotime909]

I don't know why you guys keep bringing her up, except to drag her into the mud as well. Tucker's actions are indensible on their own, regardless of what she might have done or not done. FWIW, apparently lots of other teams have hired her (including UM) and these issues haven't come up anywhere else!

it's not like she had a modicum of power here; Tucker and MSU hired her, and according to the record, at the same time he was trying to get her to agree to be his side piece, cancelled her later appearances with the team. So if anyone was playing games here, it seems like it would be him.

Maybe you and MAck's Fox News-addled-brains just reflexively jump to "blame the rape victim" whenever this kind of thing comes up?


Regardless, I doubt anyone hires her again for a while. If ever.

I generally stay out of you and macks beefs, but you truly are the most delusional person on these forums.

 

[Spartanmack]

From MSU's perspective she was his subordinate. Her being paid was contingent upon him being happy with her performance. So regardless of the fact that she was not listed under him in the employee directory he held a position of power over her.

And while I completely agree that it's none of their business what he does or who with, their employee policy included contractors in the definition of employee and he violated that policy even if his version of the story is 100% true. Given the dynamic of their professional relationship there's a very real possibility that she would feel that she could lose out on her $10k fee if she rebuffed him. And in this case he didn?t help himself by postponing the canceling her next engagement.

I don't think the "bring shame to the school" bologna would hold up in court if he had an only fans where he's jerking off on a hooker's browneye. But if that hooker was contracted as a caterer for the football team then it changes things.

From everyone?s perspective, including hers she is an independent contractor. When I was working as an auditor or as an M&A advisor I never considered myself a subordinate to my clients - my bosses were the partners at my firm. That was always clear. We held ourselves (and them) to professional and ethical standards but there is no boss/employee relationship. If a client pressured us to do something unethical or inappropriate we reported it up the chain at our firm, not the client?s. It never happened to me but I?ve had colleagues get threatened by gangsters during an M&A deal involving garbage companies - that was a great story. Same with Brenda Tracy, although presumably she?s the ultimate boss as I understand it and the buck stops with her.

If Tucker told the University not to pay her after she rebuffed his advances, she would have recourse to collect. She is not powerless in this situation. Of course again for MC's benefit, that's not to say what Tucker did wasn't inappropriate particularly if she is telling the truth.

I'm also not saying MSU has no responsibility here - they obviously have to make sure their employees deal with contractors as professionals and hold people accountable when they don?t. With a lot of details still unknown it remains to be seen what level of responsibility they have and whether or not they handled appropriately. At the moment, it doesn?t appear that they have.

 

[Michchamp]

I generally stay out of you and macks beefs, but you truly are the most delusional person on these forums.

Hahaha, okay. I know you guys aren't doing well these days.

From everyone?s perspective, including hers she is an independent contractor.

great. but no one is saying MSU owes her benefits, or overtime here.

When I was working as an auditor or as an M&A advisor I never considered myself a subordinate to my clients - my bosses were the partners at my firm. That was always clear. We held ourselves (and them) to professional and ethical standards but there is no boss/employee relationship. If a client pressured us to do something unethical or inappropriate we reported it up the chain at our firm, not the client?s. It never happened to me but I?ve had colleagues get threatened by gangsters during an M&A deal involving garbage companies - that was a great story. Same with Brenda Tracy, although presumably she?s the ultimate boss as I understand it and the buck stops with her.

...

This has to be one of the worst all time analogies I've ever read. congratulations. I hope you were cracking yourself up while you typed this. I laughed out loud when I read the "as an auditor or as an M&A advisor..." part.

 

[Spartanmack]

Hahaha, okay. I know you guys aren't doing well these days.

I don't need help dealing with the likes of you - you make it plenty easy for me.

great. but no one is saying MSU owes her benefits, or overtime here.

Great deflection but this irrelevant nonsense doesn't change the fact that she was not powerless to rebuff his advances and/or hang up the phone. She wasn't even close to financially dependent on him as you claim. That's not blaming her or excusing what Tucker did - for the 19th time, consensual or not, he's a bad guy and should be fired.

This has to be one of the worst all time analogies I've ever read. congratulations. I hope you were cracking yourself up while you typed this. I laughed out loud when I read the "as an auditor or as an M&A advisor..." part.

It's a spot on analogy - contractor/client. It's no different. Good try though.

 

[Michchamp]

This is really helpful. Sorry for being argumentative earlier.

But I now understand that being a female speaker who is getting harassed by a multi-millionaire sex pest football coach that hired her to speak to his team about sexual assault and is dangling further cash payments to her as an incentive to sleep with him is the same as being an auditor on a team working for a large corporate client who is not facing any harassment or getting sexually propositioned by the corporate client.

These things are the same, and so we should keep talking about how Brenda Tracey might have deserved it. Or might have lead poor Mel Tucker on or whatever you're hoping...:hmm: We just don't know yet!

That's the real issue to focus on.

 

[Spartanmack]

This is really helpful. Sorry for being argumentative earlier.

But I now understand that being a female speaker who is getting harassed by a multi-millionaire sex pest football coach that hired her to speak to his team about sexual assault and is dangling further cash payments to her as an incentive to sleep with him is the same as being an auditor on a team working for a large corporate client who is not facing any harassment or getting sexually propositioned by the corporate client.

These things are the same, and so we should keep talking about how Brenda Tracey might have deserved it. Or might have lead poor Mel Tucker on or whatever you're hoping...:hmm: We just don't know yet!

That's the real issue to focus on.

Like gotime said, beyond delusional - and stupid. Do you ever get sick of beclowning yourself with utter nonsense like this?

contractor/client, it's no different. If she was being harassed, she had ample opportunity and authority to stop it. I've never accused her of leading him on nor do I have any sympathy for Mel. But when have you ever let facts get in the way of your disingenuous made up garbage about what others say to try (but clearly fail) to falsely claim the moral high ground? Same ole predictable, pathetic michturd.

 

[Michchamp]

You guys are the ones who keep bringing her up. Which is absurd because whatever else happened, she didn't sleep with your coach, and broke off contact and filed a complaint with your crappy school. You should be thanking her for getting your crappy school out of their terrible contract.

Though, they'll probably just enter into another bad contract with another bad coach. Oh well!

 

[Spartanmack]

You guys are the ones who keep bringing her up. Which is absurd because whatever else happened, she didn't sleep with your coach, and broke off contact and filed a complaint with your crappy school. You should be thanking her for getting your crappy school out of their terrible contract.

Though, they'll probably just enter into another bad contract with another bad coach. Oh well!

I'm aware of the details, including the ones you ignore, like the phone records that show she and Tucker had 27 phone for 30+ minutes, all in the evenings or late night in less than a year. That's more 14 hours on the phone for a person who made 2 brief appearances on campus. I'm sure that's normal - I bet the partners at your firm spend that kind of time talking to people they bring in for a 40 minute speech with the staff. I don't know how any could think there might be more to the story than either or both are claiming...

But I'm not the one that keeps bringing her up - that's clearly you. And I'm fine that Tucker is no longer our coach, just like I'm fine that you guys are keeping your crappy coach that's 1-2 against Tucker...

 

[Michchamp]

...
But I'm not the one that keeps bringing her up - that's clearly you. .

You just came back two days later to edit your post for like the 18th time and bring her up again, dickhead.

 

[Spartanmack]

You just came back two days later to edit your post for like the 18th time and bring her up again, dickhead.

I just added a little context, she was already brought up - by you, dumbass.