Ferguson, MO

[Monster]

LISTEN► Michael Brown's FATHER "BURN THIS B|TCH D…: http://youtu.be/MLlDzWt7TPc

 

[Monster]

I've seen this point a few times and it's kind of surprising to me. There's a really big and important difference between the 5,000 murders that everybody agrees is a crime and the 400 deaths that are sanctioned by the government. Do you really think there's an equivalence here?

But of those 400, how many were justified? I would assume almost all. Cops don't kill people for no reason. Beatings...yes. they're out of control in that area.

 

[tigermud]

Thank you Monster you gave me an idea for a new avatar last night!

 

[Gulo Blue]

But of those 400, how many were justified? I would assume almost all. Cops don't kill people for no reason. Beatings...yes. they're out of control in that area.

Yes. Another reason that argument is stupid. It's not about the 5,000 and it's not about the 400. More than anything, the handful of cases that make the news aren't in the news because of any big murder statistic. They're big news because they get viewed (right or wrong depending on the case) as extreme cases of the biased policing that happens every day.

 

[tigermud]

Despite a grand jury decision being reached well before nightfall in the controversial Ferguson, Missouri, case, the verdict’s announcement was withheld until after 8pm, all but ensuring that violence and chaos would ensue.

http://www.infowars.com/fomenting-chaos-decisions-timing-triggered-ferguson-destruction/

MOST BUSINESSES DESTROYED IN FERGUSON MINORTY OWNED

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...sinesses-Destroyed-in-Ferguson-Minority-Owned

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguso...hes-additional-members-of-the-national-guard/

There is no consiriacy theory here

 

[tigermud]

"There is inevitably going to be some negative reaction, and it'll make for good TV," Obama said."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/politics/obama-ferguson-reaction/


https://youtube.com/watch?v=rlC6qcQ_4BA

 

[Gulo Blue]

Despite a grand jury decision being reached well before nightfall in the controversial Ferguson, Missouri, case, the verdict?s announcement was withheld until after 8pm, all but ensuring that violence and chaos would ensue.

What if they had announced it during the day when people were at work and out and about. More people around, more chances for violence.

It's a tough question. When's the best time? Saturday morning probably, but on a Monday, I'm not sure.

 

[tigermud]

What if they had announced it during the day when people were at work and out and about. More people around, more chances for violence.

It's a tough question. When's the best time? Saturday morning probably, but on a Monday, I'm not sure.

Or even a couple of days before when the most recent polar vortex was still firmly south still might have been good..

http://www.komonews.com/news/nation...f-grand-jury-decision-283633441.html?mobile=y

Speculation is all, no conspiracy here either. ;-)

 

[Mitchrapp]

Plus, in the day business people and innocents might have been hurt.

 

[tinselwolverine]

"There is inevitably going to be some negative reaction, and it'll make for good TV," Obama said."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/politics/obama-ferguson-reaction/


https://youtube.com/watch?v=rlC6qcQ_4BA

Your new avatar has changed you. You always used to be a real stick in the mud.

 

[tigermud]

Your new avatar has changed you. You always used to be a real stick in the mud.

Well I figured I might just go ahead and wear it since that's what everyone thinks anyway, don't worry though I'll still be a real stick in the mud to.

 

[tigersofjustice]

I've seen this point a few times and it's kind of surprising to me. There's a really big and important difference between the 5,000 murders that everybody agrees is a crime and the 400 deaths that are sanctioned by the government. Do you really think there's an equivalence here?

Yeah have to agree. I HATE when people try to equate the two as if one deserves as much coverage as the other.

1. Is a crime, everybody agrees, everybody wants perpetrators caught and brought to justice, nobody has given anyone the right to use violence.

2. Is government sanctioned violence by people specially trained and in a position of trust in the community who are authorized to use said violent training. It comes with A LOT more scrutiny. I know it sounds crazy, but I, and everybody else, expects a lot more from local police than I do criminals.

People literally compare police officers to criminals as if there is some kid of comparison. Officer situations involve an officer's implied ability to use violence against the community that itself has sanctioned that activity. As a result, people tend to give a lot more shits when that power is seemingly abused than they would about some random criminal.

 

[Spartanmack]

I've seen this point a few times and it's kind of surprising to me. There's a really big and important difference between the 5,000 murders that everybody agrees is a crime and the 400 deaths that are sanctioned by the government. Do you really think there's an equivalence here?

I think there is a real problem with violence in this country and it's not police brutality yet that is what the media would have us believe. The media, politicians and the Als and Jesses pay lip service to the real problem. But when a cop kills a violent offender in self defense the blowhards start screaming from the top of the mountain "stop murdering our babies" and the media aggressively pushes that narrative with little or no regard for the truth and everyone ignores the real problem.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yeah have to agree. I HATE when people try to equate the two as if one deserves as much coverage as the other.

1. Is a crime, everybody agrees, everybody wants perpetrators caught and brought to justice, nobody has given anyone the right to use violence.

2. Is government sanctioned violence by people specially trained and in a position of trust in the community who are authorized to use said violent training. It comes with A LOT more scrutiny. I know it sounds crazy, but I, and everybody else, expects a lot more from local police than I do criminals.

People literally compare police officers to criminals as if there is some kid of comparison. Officer situations involve an officer's implied ability to use violence against the community that itself has sanctioned that activity. As a result, people tend to give a lot more shits when that power is seemingly abused than they would about some random criminal.

Do you really hate that? And do you really think something that really is a problem (civilian violence) deserves less attention than something that actually isn't a real problem? You're arguments don't make much sense.

1. This is false framing. Nobody is saying that the lack of coverage/interest is greenlighting violence.

2. This is not government sanctioned violence - or at least not government sanctioned assault. The overwhelming majority of deaths by police are justified. And police brutality, while it exists is not a rampant and widespread problem. There are over 1.3mm violent crimes each year in the US. Cops deal w/ some pretty bad folks and some of them don't surrender peacefully - most of the time a suspect gets booked w/ a few bruises he/she earned them resisting arrest. But virtually every time it happens, they file complaints of excessive force - usually on the advise of their lawyer. If anything, the fact that cops only kill 400 people a year shows restraint, not rampant brutality.

Again, no one is comparing police officers to criminals. And the complaint is that often, as in this case, these stories are not stories but the media turns them into MASSIVE events. There was never any evidence to support the OUTRAGEOUS stories that were run in the press and early on, credible evidence like the autopsy report that refuted those outrageous eyewitness claims were publicly released or leaked but they were ignored because they didn't fit the narrative of "violence against minorities by the police". Even you are on here opining that it was bad police work without ANY evidence to support it - and despite considerable evidence to the contrary.

Other than the Diallo case, just about every national story that's supposed to confirm the myth of the institutionalized discrimination and oppression has been shown to be a canard. Yet the media still pushes a narrative about a problem that doesn't exist by misreporting stories to fit their narrative and people believe it. And now a city is burning because of it and the media is largely to blame for it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think there is a real problem with violence in this country and it's not police brutality yet that is what the media would have us believe. The media, politicians and the Als and Jesses pay lip service to the real problem. But when a cop kills a violent offender in self defense the blowhards start screaming from the top of the mountain "stop murdering our babies" and the media aggressively pushes that narrative with little or no regard for the truth and everyone ignores the real problem.

"the real problem"

You don't think racial bias in how our justice system works is a real problem?

What do you think the protesters are protesting, violence or racial bias?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Spartanmack raises a good point, heart disease kills 600,000 a year. Why is nobody talking about that? The real problem here is heart disease.

 

[Spartanmack]

"the real problem"

You don't think racial bias in how our justice system works is a real problem?

What do you think the protesters are protesting, violence or racial bias?

Did I say that? No, I didn't say that. I said there isn't institutionalized violence by police against minorities and there isn't.

As far as the protesters are concerned, I think they really don't know what they're protesting or at least, they have no idea what justice is. They said it countless times - "no justice, no peace" and to them justice is nothing short of a trial, conviction and life sentence for Wilson. Justice has been served but since it's not the "justice" they were demanding, they're burning a city to the ground. Do you think if Wilson went to trial and was rightly acquitted, they would all just go home?

 

[Spartanmack]

Spartanmack raises a good point, heart disease kills 600,000 a year. Why is nobody talking about that? The real problem here is heart disease.

This is just dumb - something I would expect from chump. I'm not arguing a false equivalence. It's is entirely valid to criticize the media (and activists) for falsely reporting story after story to push a narrative for a problem that doesn't really exist, at least not on the scale they would have us believe.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Did I say that? No, I didn't say that.

You refer to "the real problem". I'm asking what you think this is about.

 

[Gulo Blue]

This is just dumb. I'm not arguing a false equivalence.

That's not false equivalence. It's an irrelevant distraction.