Ferguson, MO

[zyxt9]

I don't think Wilson stayed close to the car.

I agree with this, I had not read previously that Wilson chased them for roughly 150'.

That post you made with the diagram of the shooting was incredibly interesting.

 

[zyxt9]

there is no such thing.

grand juries are used to investigate evidence and determine whether someone should be tried or not. they are not a trial in and of themselves.

The investigative powers of DA's are broader in a grand jury; witnesses can be compelled to testify during a grand jury & put in jail for contempt if they refuse. also, since it's not a formal criminal proceding, those called often aren't provided an attorney, and can't have an attorney present (I think, though that may depend on the jurisdiction) to object to any questions from the DA.

Grand juries are controversial for these reasons; and in the cop cases recently they're controversial for another reason: when a regular old citizen is the target of a grand jury investigation, they're indicted something like >90% of the time. It's so one-sided, former NY judge Sol Wachtler famously coined the phrase that a grand jury "could indict a ham sandwich." Yet when police officers are the target of grand jury investigations, the opposite occurs. In such instances, the grand jury is usually used to whitewash the incident, provide the prosecutor PR cover for failing to charge the police... those same broad powers the prosecutor has I referred to in the first paragraph are turned upside down to PROTECT the target of the grand jury, not to return an indictment. indeed, in the Ferguson case, there were reports the DA acted more like Darrel Wilson's own defense attorney than a prosecutor.

so... you see... yeah. it's screwed up. The justice system is often more about preserving the appearance of justice, than "justice" itself, in the conventional sense of the word.

In some cases the GJ will get things right and in some they will not, which is understandable to the extent we are humans and humans will make mistakes in those situations. The skewed ratios is very troublesome though, obviously. Is there a conspiracy within the justice system to protect the police, these ratios would suggest that there is.

However, IF the GJ had sent both of these cases before an actual jury, chances are very high Wilson is found innocent. The evidence of Brown moving toward Wilson during final confrontation is indisputable and coupled with evidence of a scuffle at the car and Brown having punched Wilson, there is little reason not to find Wilson innocent on grounds of self defense. Someone with their hands up and standing still is a very different scenario from someone having their hands up and moving toward the person with the gun and with whom there was a prior confrontation and the person with their hands up is considerable larger.

In NY, the cops MAY have been found innocent at trial due to the prior health conditions, coupled with EMTs being slow to respond after initially requested. Could the EMTs be prosecuted for doing their job inadequately / too slowly? Could the cops have initiated CPR? There are many variables where I could see them being found innocent; however, IMO they are guilty of inaction as much as they are guilty of excessive force, and the combination of the two led to the death.

In Ferguson, the choices made by perp led to his death. In NY, the choices by the cops and EMTs led to the death. Big difference between the two.

 

[zyxt9]

The blood spots and casings suggest Brown came back towards Wilson at least 22 feet. To me, the casings (as drawn here, which might not be to scale) even suggest Wilson was retreating as he was firing, but I don't know if that's part of the story.

This is what I was referring to in prior post. THIS is what the protesters are not grasping.

roughly 20' covered by Brown despite multiple shots being fired his direction. that's considerable ground to cover and within a timeframe inconsistent with witnesses claiming he was barely moving. exactly how fast is difficult to determine obviously, but it is not possible to cover 20' in the timeframe it takes to fire off 10 rounds unless you are moving with some level of acceleration and speed.

now, to play the opposite view, those red stains that are 20' away from Brown's body, do we know if there is any directionality to those stains? after all, someone shot could have blood splatter 20' away. my guess is those marks were specifically indicated as they showed a directionality indicative of Brown standing and the blood dripping down to the ground, but I'm not sure if that is documented anywhere.

this image needed to be released long ago. there is definitely a communication issue with the FPD. if they had communicated some of this from the beginning, it would have given the media a chance to report on something concrete that supported Wilson instead of continually running with the Racial Agenda to generate revenue. sure there would be people who gloss over this data or try to twist it and fit their agenda, but more people would have had a chance to gain some perspective and recognize those propaganda points for what they are.

society these days should be provided this type of info, IMO. with the current state being millions of people watching crime show TV, including CSI, NCIS, etc., there needs to be some of this type of physical evidence data provided so people can use it with or against the witness statements to form more accurate opinions. it might have helped prevent a full blown race riot in this situation, not to mention dismiss the falicy that Brown was not moving toward Wilson. Hands up or not, that is the crux of the issue. You don't move toward the person with the gun, cop or not, unless directed to, you are thinking about potentially disarming the person with the gun somehow, or you fail to recognize the actual danger before you.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Protests are getting bigger here in Durham. 31 arrested last night.

 

[mhughes0021]

Protests are getting bigger here in Durham. 31 arrested last night.

0 shot. good job cops!

 

[Thumb]

0 shot. good job cops!

More cops should be issued tasers, then it would be less likely for some idiot to fire 12+ bullets at an unarmed man, or choke-wrestle them to the ground.

Then all of this might be moot.

 

[Gulo Blue]

0 shot. good job cops!

A little too much swat gear for my taste since it's been peaceful, but they're saying the right things in the press about how it hurts to be viewed as the bad guys, but it's still their job to keep everyone safe while they exercise their 1st Amendment rights.

 

[mhughes0021]

More cops should be issued tasers, then it would be less likely for some idiot to fire 12+ bullets at an unarmed man, or choke-wrestle them to the ground.

Then all of this might be moot.

I was thinking equip them more like Rhino at the end of Amazing Spiderman 2. That way they don't really ever have to feel the need to defend themselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guTDJ1Zb5nM

 

[Mitchrapp]

More cops should be issued tasers, then it would be less likely for some idiot to fire 12+ bullets at an unarmed man, or choke-wrestle them to the ground.

Then all of this might be moot.

So the cops an idiot for sitting in his car without a care in the world..until some punk robs a store and causes trouble..? You're clueless..not a shock of course but clueless nonetheless.

If thug doesn't reach into cop car..it would be moot.

 

[Thumb]

So the cops an idiot for sitting in his car without a care in the world..until some punk robs a store and causes trouble..? You're clueless..not a shock of course but clueless nonetheless.

If thug doesn't reach into cop car..it would be moot.

12 shots, unarmed man. Whether you believe Wilson was justified in the shooting or not, at least 12 fucking shots were fired, so Wilson is an idiot for either recklessly discharging his gun, or just being a terrible shot.

If you can't see the problem here, you have no room to call anyone else clueless. Like I said, if the cop had a Taser, this thread likely does not exist.

But keep on trying to spin it around the robbery, which was irrelevant.

 

[Mitchrapp]

12 shots, unarmed man. Whether you believe Wilson was justified in the shooting or not, at least 12 fucking shots were fired, so Wilson is an idiot for either recklessly discharging his gun, or just being a terrible shot.

If you can't see the problem here, you have no room to call anyone else clueless. Like I said, if the cop had a Taser, this thread likely does not exist.

But keep on trying to spin it around the robbery, which was irrelevant.

You make it sound like I'm the only one with those views? Bottom line dude reached into a cop's car and attacked him. The thread doesn't exist if thug does what he's asked. But no lets blame the cop..because it's a black kid.

 

[Thumb]

You make it sound like I'm the only one with those views? Bottom line dude reached into a cop's car and attacked him. The thread doesn't exist if thug does what he's asked. But no lets blame the cop..because it's a black kid.

Mitch, what you're failing to grasp (big surprise) is I was saying if he has a Taser the same situation unfolds much differently, regardless of who you, or me, or anyone thinks is to blame.

And I'm not saying you're the only one with those views, as wrong as they might be. :tup:

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch, what you're failing to grasp (big surprise) is I was saying if he has a Taser the same situation unfolds much differently, regardless of who you, or me, or anyone thinks is to blame.

And I'm not saying you're the only one with those views, as wrong as they might be. :tup:

Not all police force have tasers..how does that make the cop an idiot? The fact remains, yes fact - if the young man didn't attack the cop none of this happens. It sucks that he died, but in that situation .. with NO Taser, what was the cop suppose to do? They're not trained to just let someone go. There's a reason why the GJ didn't find enough evidence to have a trial..or were they all wrong too?

 

[Thumb]

Not all police force have tasers..how does that make the cop an idiot? The fact remains, yes fact - if the young man didn't attack the cop none of this happens. It sucks that he died, but in that situation .. with NO Taser, what was the cop suppose to do? They're not trained to just let someone go. There's a reason why the GJ didn't find enough evidence to have a trial..or were they all wrong too?

No fucking shit Mitch, that was my point!!!

Damn you are dense.

 

[Mitchrapp]

No fucking shit Mitch, that was my point!!!

Damn you are dense.

If that was your point you're an idiot. So blame a cop for killing a thug, the one who actually started the whole mess, because he, HE didn't have a Taser. Brilliant..just BRILLIANT. Next you're be saying if the cop was at home it wouldn't have happened either. Maybe the family can sue because their son thought he'd only get tased.

Maybe next time a cop gets killed giving a traffic ticket we can only hope he has a Taser to save his life..

 

[Thumb]

Oh my god, it's like trying to teach a chimp to read, you keep thinking sooner or later he will get it, but in reality it's hopeless.

 

[mhughes0021]

Guns dont kill people....cops kill people.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Oh my god, it's like trying to teach a chimp to read, you keep thinking sooner or later he will get it, but in reality it's hopeless.

I'm suppose to get if he had a Taser the kid would be alive? And you know this how, maybe the cop still shoots his weapon? The fact is you want to put the death 100% on the cop. I don't get that..And why keep on bring up the Taser and being a moot point .. and I'm suppose to be okay with that but you seem to think a kid reaching into a cop car and punching said cop is not enough reason for cop to shoot kid. And the kid keeps moving closer when the cop says STOP.

Chimp? That's it, that's what you got. Usually how it works with you when you're losing an argument. I'm wrong, the GJ was wrong, policeman was wrong..but good old thumb says Taser = moot point :lmao:

 

[Mitchrapp]

Guns dont kill people....cops kill people.

People kill cops more..

 

[Thumb]

The fact is you want to put the death 100% on the cop.

and I'm suppose to be okay with that but you seem to think a kid reaching into a cop car and punching said cop is not enough reason for cop to shoot kid. And the kid keeps moving closer when the cop says STOP.

Since it's all a fact, why don't you find a quote of me saying anything even remotely like those 2 things.