Ferguson, MO

[Monster]

There's a world of difference between a bullet proof vest and weapons on tripods.

What's the difference between being on a tripod or in their hands?

 

[Gulo Blue]

That's not me. I just happen to think you lose your right to protest once riots and looting starts. I think that police should have all the DEFENSIVE equipment they need. Crowd control is important when things start getting out of control.

People should always have a right to protest. Generally speaking, you see protests in daylight at government sites and looting at night in commercial areas. Once the looting start, protesters would be wise to restrict their protesting to the government locations (City Halls, Police Headquarters), but they don't lose the right to protest.

 

[Gulo Blue]

What's the difference between being on a tripod or in their hands?

The difference in the image is dramatic, and the image you project is a big deal. We're talking about how people react to the feeling that they are being treated unfairly or even oppressed. If you dress the part for violent oppression, you're more likely to get violent resistance. People don't like to get pushed around. The harder you push, the harder they push back. All this image stuff matters.

 

[Monster]

People should always have a right to protest. Generally speaking, you see protests in daylight at government sites and looting at night in commercial areas. Once the looting start, protesters would be wise to restrict their protesting to the government locations (City Halls, Police Headquarters), but they don't lose the right to protest.

They don't lose the right to protest, but they do lose the ability to continue the protest in that location. What should the police do when looting starts and unknown people in the crowd are firing off shots at the police? I mean, if the cops did nothing and one of the people in the crowd get shot, there would be even more of an uproar.

 

[Monster]

The difference in the image is dramatic, and the image you project is a big deal. We're talking about how people react to the feeling that they are being treated unfairly or even oppressed. If you dress the part for violent oppression, you're more likely to get violent resistance. People don't like to get pushed around. The harder you push, the harder they push back. All this image stuff matters.

Again, those things did not come out until the violence started. I don't get why people don't understand this. You think that they'd bring out those tanks, the heavy armor, the scary looking guns, and the tripods that apparently make all the difference if the protesters weren't causing problems in the city? 1 person killed a couple nights ago. 2 shot last night.

How many dead protesters at the hands of cops? How many shot by REAL bullets or anything that did lasting damage? This isn't Syria. You have the right to protest as long as it's not interfering with others' lives. When shots are fired by some of the people, that's cause to shut it down.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'd like to see some sort of timeline regarding when there was shooting and when the police brought out the heavy equipment. I'm arguing the equipment makes the shooting more likely while you make it sound like a reaction to the shooting. Once there's shooting, the police should react as they always have of course, but that's historically been handguns and vests and regular police cars.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Again, those things did not come out until the violence started. I don't get why people don't understand this.

I didn't know that. ...and I'm still not sure what exactly we're talking about in terms of the violent reaction before the equipment came out.

 

[Monster]

Not sure if any of you have heard the account of the dangerous police officer who killed Michael Brown. Apparently, the two kids were walking in the middle of the street as has been reported. The cop yelled at them to get out of the street. He then noticed that Brown had cigars in his hand after hearing over the radio about the strong armed robbery nearby.

He then tried to get out of his car and Brown slammed his door shut on him twice and then when Wilson went for his gun (I think it's justified at this point) Brown tried to grab it. Even punched Wilson in the face. They wrestled with the gun and it went off. I don't think he'd been shot at that point, but that's when he and his lil wayne looking friending ran.

Wilson yelled freeze. They stopped, turned, and Brown rushed him. Wilson then shot him a few times in the arm and then in the head as he got closer. The last two shots killed him and he fell just a few feet in front of the officer.

Anyone see a problem with this? It sounds much more plausible than Brown's friends' accounts of the story. Sure, I believe that Wilson just unloaded 6 shots into a surrendering teenager with his arms in the air. End of sarcasm. That at least should explain why Wilson hasn't been arrested yet. There needs to be a full investigation to determine what actually happened and these protesters don't seem to understand that.

Edit: And of course the protesters on the ground can't accept this and are already calling it a fabrication. You can't reason with people who have already come to a conclusion.

 

[Monster]

I'd like to see some sort of timeline regarding when there was shooting and when the police brought out the heavy equipment. I'm arguing the equipment makes the shooting more likely while you make it sound like a reaction to the shooting. Once there's shooting, the police should react as they always have of course, but that's historically been handguns and vests and regular police cars.

I agree. When there's a small group of people. But, when they don't know where the threat is coming from and there are hundreds of people, you expect them not to protect themselves?

 

[Monster]

I'd like to see some sort of timeline regarding when there was shooting and when the police brought out the heavy equipment. I'm arguing the equipment makes the shooting more likely while you make it sound like a reaction to the shooting. Once there's shooting, the police should react as they always have of course, but that's historically been handguns and vests and regular police cars.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...guson-mo-since-the-shooting-of-michael-brown/

 

[Gulo Blue]

This timeline doesn't specify when the shooting started:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/08/18/ferguson-timeline-whats-happened-so-far/

Neither does this one:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...el-brown-ferguson-missouri-timeline/14051827/

or this one:
http://koin.com/2014/08/17/ferguson-timeline-events-following-death-of-michael-brown/

or this one:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...nager-michael-brown.html?_r=0#/#time348_10366

 

[Gulo Blue]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...guson-mo-since-the-shooting-of-michael-brown/

That one doesn't say either.

 

[Michchamp]

this is amusing... the comments are amusing as well:
https://twitter.com/kansasalps/status/501424457547018241

 

[Michchamp]

Not sure if any of you have heard the account of the dangerous police officer who killed Michael Brown. Apparently, the two kids were walking in the middle of the street as has been reported. The cop yelled at them to get out of the street. He then noticed that Brown had cigars in his hand after hearing over the radio about the strong armed robbery nearby. ...

now this directly conflicts what the chief earlier said, that the cop who shot him had no idea he was a suspect and no probable cause to stop him, other than he was walking in the street:

link & quote:

Backers of a black teenager killed by a Missouri cop accused the officer’s boss Friday of trying to “assassinate” the youth’s character by linking him to a robbery.

Officer Darren Wilson had no idea 18-year-old Michael Brown was a suspected robber when he stopped the teenager and his pal, the chief later admitted.

“They were walking down the middle of the street, blocking traffic, that was it,” said Ferguson, Mo., police chief Thomas Jackson.

The theft of a $48.99 box of Swisher Sweets cigars from a convenience store “had nothing to do with the stop,” the chief said.

The embattled chief dropped that bomb after he identified Wilson by name almost a week after a fatal shooting that sparked several days of rage in the heartland.
​

are you just trolling for fun (since apparently spartanhack, KAWDUP, tLIAR, or even Mitch have no interest in defending the FergusonPD) or do you really believe them, after they changed the story and took over a week to put out this garbage, when it should've taken no more than a day or two at most to release the officer's report & the autopsy results?
​

 

[Gulo Blue]

this is amusing... the comments are amusing as well:
https://twitter.com/kansasalps/status/501424457547018241

This is probably why they were picked:

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[Gulo Blue]

autopsy results

Those aren't going to help calm things down now that they're out. 6 shots. 2 in the head. I honestly hadn't read much about the initial incident. Still haven't really. Two wrongs don't make a right. Findings regarding the initial incident that change the perspective don't really justify or invalidate actions taken before that info came to light.

 

[Michchamp]

Those aren't going to help calm things down now that they're out. 6 shots. 2 in the head.

my point was that they're obviously not being completely candid here, given the unnecessarily long delays in releasing information. but yes, from a PR standpoint, it made sense to wait as long as possible before releasing that.

 

[Monster]

now this directly conflicts what the chief earlier said, that the cop who shot him had no idea he was a suspect and no probable cause to stop him, other than he was walking in the street:

link & quote:

Backers of a black teenager killed by a Missouri cop accused the officer?s boss Friday of trying to ?assassinate? the youth?s character by linking him to a robbery.

Officer Darren Wilson had no idea 18-year-old Michael Brown was a suspected robber when he stopped the teenager and his pal, the chief later admitted.

?They were walking down the middle of the street, blocking traffic, that was it,? said Ferguson, Mo., police chief Thomas Jackson.

The theft of a $48.99 box of Swisher Sweets cigars from a convenience store ?had nothing to do with the stop,? the chief said.

The embattled chief dropped that bomb after he identified Wilson by name almost a week after a fatal shooting that sparked several days of rage in the heartland.
​

are you just trolling for fun (since apparently spartanhack, KAWDUP, tLIAR, or even Mitch have no interest in defending the FergusonPD) or do you really believe them, after they changed the story and took over a week to put out this garbage, when it should've taken no more than a day or two at most to release the officer's report & the autopsy results?
​

What do you mean trolling? That is the story Wilson gave in his report. His story didn't change. And the chief was right. The stop had to do with them in the middle of the street. Not seeing what you're getting at.

I'm ashamed of Liberals when they ignore facts in favor of what fits their idea of police. A white kid was killed in utah over the weekend by a cop. Where's the blind rage?

Police are out of control in this country. That is a fact. However, I think they've behaved about as well as cam be expected in Ferguson. Not perfectly, but much better than you people make it out to be.

 

[Gulo Blue]

my point was that they're obviously not being completely candid here, given the unnecessarily long delays in releasing information. but yes, from a PR standpoint, it made sense to wait as long as possible before releasing that.

I get that. I'm just saying, while the heavy gear may not have been the right call initially, it looks like it is now.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Interesting that somebody named Nixon could elected to high
office in this country.

I wonder if he's related to the former president?