Fielder for Kinsler trade

[UMRules06]

I think I'm on board with trying to get Beltran for a much shorter deal. Choo and Ellsbury are both going to want their own versions of long bloated contracts. If the goal is to keep long term financial stability for guys like Miggy and Max, then sign Beltran to a 1 or 2 year deal. He is the epitome of a clutch playoff performer as well, something we're lacking.

 

[Rebbiv]

This isn't even about Infante. Maybe Infante is better but we got rid of a 1B who actually is more like a DH. If done right, we can go with Miggy at 1B, down the road at DH and get a new 3B. Maybe we don't but it does open up that option.

And in a few years you might be happy that we have no Kinsler or Prince and maybe less of a payroll.

Maybe we don't save money in certain years but in the end it's what, close to 75m?

Since you talk money and road numbers, lets talk playoff numbers. Kinsler, good, Fielder - very bad.

Seriously need to keep playoff numbers out of this. They are generally a small sample rate to even draw any conclusions. If we want good post season numbers (even though regular season sucks), then we need Brandon Inge and Delmon Young back on the team. And then overpay them on top of it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I stand corrected, it should be $92 MIL. Math error. His 2018 option is worth $5 Mil if it is bought out. So he is guaranteed $62 Mil over the next 4 years.

Now, I don't care when DET pays the $30 MIL, it still is part of this deal. It now is credited towards Kinsler, who could not be on the team after 4 years. Hence why it is $92 MIL over the next 4 years.

The Tigers owed Prince 7 years @ $168 million, but now owe Kinsler and the Rangers a total of $92-97 million over 4 or 5 years.

That is a savings of $71 - $76 million, depending on the option over the next 7 years. Yes. But is that really a savings? Fielder cost $24 per year. Kinsler is either going to cost $19.4 Mil per year, or $23 Mil per year based on this deal. Again, during the time Kinsler is on the team, that $30 Mil has to be accounted for, even if the payout is after he left the team.

Spin it all you want, it's $71 - $76 million savings. Unless you're only going to be a fan for a few years than yeah not that much.

I'll take Ian's playoff numbers over fat boy who has been terrible his entire career.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Seriously need to keep playoff numbers out of this. They are generally a small sample rate to even draw any conclusions. If we want good post season numbers (even though regular season sucks), then we need Brandon Inge and Delmon Young back on the team. And then overpay them on top of it.

Sure you won't count then because they help your "we get jacked in this trade" theory if we did.

 

[Rebbiv]

Let's not forget that DD said Infante wasn't coming back anyhow, so we would have probably been looking at Hernan Perez starting for us instead of Kinsler. Plus, if we want to continue down the Infante path, what were we gonna pay him to stay? Fielder's salary + resigning Infante would have been a HUGE money difference.

That is so far fetched, it is funny. There was no way we were starting the season with Hernan Perez at 2B. Maybe as a backup.

The option was to trade for a starting 2B other than Kinsler. Scherzer, Fister or Porcello could have been traded for a starting 2B.

 

[tomdalton22]

these things are always gambles. We could all be laughing our collective asses off in 2018 when Prince weighs 330 lbs sitting on the Rangers bench....the entire bench!!

 

[Rebbiv]

Sure you won't count then because they help your "we get jacked in this trade" theory if we did.

Bullshit. They help you argument more. Suck for 162-games, but OK for a 5-games in the playoff. Where is the weight if you don't make the playoffs?

2014 Tigers miss the playoffs, but it is OK because Kinsler is better than Fielder in the playoffs. See how stupid this is?

 

[Mitchrapp]

these things are always gambles. We could all be laughing our collective asses off in 2018 when Prince weighs 330 lbs sitting on the Rangers bench....the entire bench!!

He might be doing that in 2016.

 

[grandy]

I stand corrected, it should be $92 MIL. Math error. His 2018 option is worth $5 Mil if it is bought out. So he is guaranteed $62 Mil over the next 4 years.

Now, I don't care when DET pays the $30 MIL, it still is part of this deal. It now is credited towards Kinsler, who could not be on the team after 4 years. Hence why it is $92 MIL over the next 4 years.

The Tigers owed Prince 7 years @ $168 million, but now owe Kinsler and the Rangers a total of $92-97 million over 4 or 5 years.

That is a savings of $71 - $76 million, depending on the option over the next 7 years. Yes. But is that really a savings? Fielder cost $24 per year. Kinsler is either going to cost $19.4 Mil per year, or $23 Mil per year based on this deal. Again, during the time Kinsler is on the team, that $30 Mil has to be accounted for, even if the payout is after he left the team.

Alright, I was just a little confused on why you were applying the $30M all at once.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Bullshit. They help you argument more. Suck for 162-games, but OK for a 5-games in the playoff. Where is the weight if you don't make the playoffs?

2014 Tigers miss the playoffs, but it is OK because Kinsler is better than Fielder in the playoffs. See how stupid this is?

Who we kidding, they both sucked. But a 2nd baseman adds more value than a 1B. And this help's Mggy if he needs time off at 3rd base.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And in case you still don't understand, Kinsler had a better 2013 than Fielder did. Use all the 3 year numbers you want but as far as 2013 goes, Kinsler had the better year.

 

[grandy]

And in case you still don't understand, Kinsler had a better 2013 than Fielder did. Use all the 3 year numbers you want but as far as 2013 goes, Kinsler had the better year.

Based on?

All the numbers I see indicate Fielder had a better offensive year, with Kinsler being better defensively.

Fielder also played nearly a month's worth of games more than Kinsler.

 

[Rebbiv]

And in case you still don't understand, Kinsler had a better 2013 than Fielder did. Use all the 3 year numbers you want but as far as 2013 goes, Kinsler had the better year.

OK...I'll play

2013 Fielder .275 BAVG .350 OBP .448 SLG .797 OPS

2013 AVG MLB 1B .261 BAVG .337 OBP .436 SLG .773 OPS



2013 Kinsler .263 BAVG .317 OBP .418 SLG .735 OPS

2013 AVG MLB 2B .263 BAVG .323 OBP .387 SLG .710 OPS


I still don't see it, but OK, Kinsler had the better year.

 

[byco42]

And in case you still don't understand, Kinsler had a better 2013 than Fielder did. Use all the 3 year numbers you want but as far as 2013 goes, Kinsler had the better year.

If you are factoring in personal matters, I agree completely.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I was referring to the fact, one is a 2B and the other is a 1B. As far as orders of importance, 2B far outweighs 1B. That counts for something.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And if you're one to believe in WAR, though I don't know why one would - Kinsler smokes Fielder, and not just 2013.

 

[tomdalton22]

OK...I'll play

2013 Fielder .275 BAVG .350 OBP .448 SLG .797 OPS

2013 AVG MLB 1B .261 BAVG .337 OBP .436 SLG .773 OPS



2013 Kinsler .263 BAVG .317 OBP .418 SLG .735 OPS

2013 AVG MLB 2B .263 BAVG .323 OBP .387 SLG .710 OPS


I still don't see it, but OK, Kinsler had the better year.

he is probably comparing it positionally using OPS and War. Prince was 12th in OPS and 19th in WAR which really reflects how bad he was in 2013 since I think he was the highest paid 1B in all of baseball last year. Kinsler was 8th and 6th respectively....of course he is in a hitters park.

 

[tomdalton22]

And if you're one to believe in WAR, though I don't know why one would - Kinsler smokes Fielder, and not just 2013.

I'm not a big WAR guy but I think it has some merit. I think it is flawed but at least it takes into consideration the position played and defense.

 

[dale675]

OK...I'll play

2013 Fielder .275 BAVG .350 OBP .448 SLG .797 OPS

2013 AVG MLB 1B .261 BAVG .337 OBP .436 SLG .773 OPS



2013 Kinsler .263 BAVG .317 OBP .418 SLG .735 OPS

2013 AVG MLB 2B .263 BAVG .323 OBP .387 SLG .710 OPS


I still don't see it, but OK, Kinsler had the better year.

According to ESPN Kinsler's stats are as follows for 2013:

.277 AVG / .349 OBP / .413 SLG / .757 OPS

Unless yours are adjusted for park/day/night/leap year/what he had for lunch/etc. :hehe:

 

[Rebbiv]

Who we kidding, they both sucked. But a 2nd baseman adds more value than a 1B. And this help's Mggy if he needs time off at 3rd base.

How does a 2B add more value? I really want to know this. In what area is 2B more valuable to the team? Defense? Because it certainly isn't on offense.

Defensively

An average AL 2B in 2013 saw 4.7 chances per game.

An average AL 1B in 2013 saw 8.7 chances per game.

Aside the fact that Kinsler is better defensively at his position, does not make him better than Fielder.