Fielder for Kinsler trade

[Rebbiv]

And if you're one to believe in WAR, though I don't know why one would - Kinsler smokes Fielder, and not just 2013.

And WAR is very biased and flawed stat.

 

[tomdalton22]

According to ESPN Kinsler's stats are as follows for 2013:

.277 AVG / .349 OBP / .413 SLG / .757 OPS

Unless yours are adjusted for park/day/night/leap year/what he had for lunch/etc. :hehe:

I think he is using away stats only

 

[Rebbiv]

According to ESPN Kinsler's stats are as follows for 2013:

.277 AVG / .349 OBP / .413 SLG / .757 OPS

Unless yours are adjusted for park/day/night/leap year/what he had for lunch/etc. :hehe:

Park NEUTRAL stats

 

[biggunsbob]

Baseball reference has Kinsler 2013 overall stats at

277/.344 /.413/.757
In only 136 games.. Pervious two seasons he played 157 and 155 games. I think DD just want the Tigers to be more athletic.

 

[tomdalton22]

How does a 2B add more value? I really want to know this. In what area is 2B more valuable to the team? Defense? Because it certainly isn't on offense.

Defensively

An average AL 2B in 2013 saw 4.7 chances per game.

An average AL 1B in 2013 saw 8.7 chances per game.

Aside the fact that Kinsler is better defensively at his position, does not make him better than Fielder.

2B - throwing, lateral movement, turning double plays, etc.
1B - stand there and try not to fuck up too often

There is a reason they put the worst defensive infielder on the team at 1B!

 

[grandy]

In all seriousness, can Kinsler match Prince's ability to belly flop?

 

[Thumb]

And in case you still don't understand, Kinsler had a better 2013 than Fielder did. Use all the 3 year numbers you want but as far as 2013 goes, Kinsler had the better year.

Now you're just spouting pure bullshit to try to back your argument.

 

[Thumb]

In all seriousness, can Kinsler match Prince's ability to belly flop?

No. But the fact that Kinsler got thrown out stealing in almost 50% of his attempts last year I think negates the argument that he's a big base stealing threat as some said in the early pages of this thread. He's almost as much a liability as a threat now.

 

[Thumb]

2B - throwing, lateral movement, turning double plays, etc.
1B - stand there and try not to fuck up too often

There is a reason they put the worst defensive infielder on the team at 1B!

How does that equate to a 2B being more valuable than a 1B.

Oh, that's right, not at all.

 

[Rebbiv]

2B - throwing, lateral movement, turning double plays, etc.
1B - stand there and try not to fuck up too often

There is a reason they put the worst defensive infielder on the team at 1B!

Actually, the put him at DH, followed by LF.

 

[tomdalton22]

Actually, the put him at DH, followed by LF.

haha....DH is funny!

but why would they put the worst defensive infielder in LF? Was Andy Dirks the Tigers worst defensive infielder last year?

Edit: actually, the Tigers used Victor as the DH last year and he is a better infielder than Prince.

 

[Mitchrapp]

How does a 2B add more value? I really want to know this. In what area is 2B more valuable to the team? Defense? Because it certainly isn't on offense.

Defensively

An average AL 2B in 2013 saw 4.7 chances per game.

An average AL 1B in 2013 saw 8.7 chances per game.

Aside the fact that Kinsler is better defensively at his position, does not make him better than Fielder.

If two players had the same numbers, in every department - who would you rather have a 1B or 2B? Thank you for playing..Or better yet, a SS. Position matters.

 

[Rebbiv]

haha....DH is funny!

but why would they put the worst defensive infielder in LF? Was Andy Dirks the Tigers worst defensive infielder last year?

Where did they move Castellanos? It has nothing to do with being a bad fielder, than what is easier to learn and hide a slow footed player.

LF is easier to learn than 1B and less demanding. Sure, in a spacious OF, a slow footed LFer can be a liability. Most bad fielders are 1B/LF types, if not already DH. Problem is that Fielder could never chase a fly ball down.

These facts do not change the importance of having a good defensive 1B. Players like Doug Mientkiwicz had good careers being defensive 1B.

 

[Monster]

There's something to be said about chemistry. Kinsler should be a good fit for that and Prince was messing with it, so I'm good with this trade. I would have loved Infante coming back and getting a LF for Prince, but this should work nicely. Prince was hitting great at the start of 2013, but was a huge waste of space after. Personally, i think this moves Ajax to the bottom of the lineup. We'll pick up a bat sometime soon and our lineup should look better and, more importantly, more consistent. Prince's long slumps have killed us the last two years.

 

[tomdalton22]

Where did they move Castellanos? It has nothing to do with being a bad fielder, than what is easier to learn and hide a slow footed player.

LF is easier to learn than 1B and less demanding. Sure, in a spacious OF, a slow footed LFer can be a liability. Most bad fielders are 1B/LF types, if not already DH. Problem is that Fielder could never chase a fly ball down.

These facts do not change the importance of having a good defensive 1B. Players like Doug Mientkiwicz had good careers being defensive 1B.

They moved him to LF because he can move, Miggy played 3B and they already had a 1B. Hopefully they put him back at 3B.

I too like a good defensive 1B which is just one of the many reasons I hated the Prince signing in the first place.

 

[Rebbiv]

If two players had the same numbers, in every department - who would you rather have a 1B or 2B? Thank you for playing..Or better yet, a SS. Position matters.

How did we get down this road?

Kinsler is the far lesser of the two players. Yes he is better defensively, but his lack of average level offense is no comparison to Fielder's above average offense.

The issue is neither should be getting what they make based on the worth/production/value. Just, In My Humble Opinion, Fielder is closer than his salary than Kinsler is to his. And that is taking position into account big time. Kinsler is a below average overall 2B. Fielder is a top 10 1B. Period. Stop isolating stuff to 1 year or playoff just to make your argument stronger. Kinsler is a dud that was being overpaid by Texas (as is Elvis Andrus).

The plus is Fielder's albatross in gone. But don't overvalue the rest of the deal because of this.

 

[Rebbiv]

There's something to be said about chemistry. Kinsler should be a good fit for that and Prince was messing with it, so I'm good with this trade. I would have loved Infante coming back and getting a LF for Prince, but this should work nicely. Prince was hitting great at the start of 2013, but was a huge waste of space after. Personally, i think this moves Ajax to the bottom of the lineup. We'll pick up a bat sometime soon and our lineup should look better and, more importantly, more consistent. Prince's long slumps have killed us the last two years.

You did read that Kinsler was a bad apple in Texas right? And that Cabrera is upset with Fielder being traded?

So what does all this do to that precious chemistry?

 

[Mitchrapp]

How did we get down this road?

Kinsler is the far lesser of the two players. Yes he is better defensively, but his lack of average level offense is no comparison to Fielder's above average offense.

The issue is neither should be getting what they make based on the worth/production/value. Just, In My Humble Opinion, Fielder is closer than his salary than Kinsler is to his. And that is taking position into account big time. Kinsler is a below average overall 2B. Fielder is a top 10 1B. Period. Stop isolating stuff to 1 year or playoff just to make your argument stronger. Kinsler is a dud that was being overpaid by Texas (as is Elvis Andrus).

The plus is Fielder's albatross in gone. But don't overvalue the rest of the deal because of this.

It comes to that because even though Fielder has been the better hitter, the other guy plays a more demanding position. So that counts when you're comparing. All you seem to look at is offense. Look at the whole picture. Losing a 1B but getting a 2B is a good thing. Almost anyone can play 1st better than Fielder.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You did read that Kinsler was a bad apple in Texas right? And that Cabrera is upset with Fielder being traded?

So what does all this do to that precious chemistry?

One is from a rumor and another from a friend. In the end, both mean nothing.

 

[tigersofjustice]

People need to stop attributing that 30 million payment to Kinsler. That's not how it works. That 30 million was not spent to acquire Kinsler but to dump Fielder's deal. If the Tigers just called people up and asked them to take Fielder and his contract, they probably would have had to chip in more than the 30 million for most teams to do it. The fact that it was only 30 million was because Kinsler's deal is also a bit over the top.

Kinsler does not cost 90+ million, he costs 60+. 30+ gave us the opportunity to dump Fielder. Valuing things like Kinsler costs 90+ is disingenuous and ignores the other realities of the situation.