Fister Traded, now is retiring from baseball

[Mitchrapp]

It also doesn't guarantee he will suck.The guy is only 25 years old and was used as a pinch hitter in 47 games of 307 plate appearances. His minor league numbers are nothing to ignore. Pinch hitting is one of the toughest jobs in baseball. Ask any MLB player.

Sorry if you don't like the guy. But I do I don't care if everyone hates me for it or not. Bottom line is he is a Tiger now and DD traded for him.

Just so you don't get ahead of yourself but we'll all root for the guy.

His minor league numbers you mention are not earth shattering and as far I see they're less than impressive.

Pinch hitting, without accounting for the fact that's still just a small portion of his PA - what do you think he's going to do here? He's not starting..

 

[Thumb]

It all depends on what list you look at. He ranks high on every experts list except yours and your not an expert.

You seem to put absolutely no value on SB's, Runs or Batting Average. Some guys are just free swingers like Polanco. His OBP wasn't that great and he never took a walk, but everyone loved him here in Detroit.

People who put much value in Batting Average likely still believe the world is flat.

 

[Rebbiv]

It all depends on what list you look at. He ranks high on every experts list except yours and your not an expert.

You seem to put absolutely no value on SB's, Runs or Batting Average. Some guys are just free swingers like Polanco. His OBP wasn't that great and he never took a walk, but everyone loved him here in Detroit.

3 offensive categories that are pretty much useless all by themselves.

2006-2008 (32 2B with at least 600 PA)
Polanco (Kinsler)
9th OPS (15th)
8th wOBA (15th)
8th wRC+ (14th)

8th of 31 UZR/150 (30th)

2011-2013 (31 2B with at least 600 PA)
Altuve (Kinsler)
19th OPS (7th)
20th wOBA (6th)
20th wRC+ (10th)
24th of 26 UZR/150 (8th)

 

[tomdalton22]

People who put much value in Batting Average likely still believe the world is flat.

that's a little harsh. BA by itself can be an overrated stat but it is still very important.

 

[tomdalton22]

3 offensive categories that are pretty much useless all by themselves.

2006-2008 (32 2B with at least 600 PA)
Polanco (Kinsler)
9th OPS (15th)
8th wOBA (15th)
8th wRC+ (14th)

8th of 31 UZR/150 (30th)

2011-2013 (31 2B with at least 600 PA)
Altuve (Kinsler)
19th OPS (7th)
20th wOBA (6th)
20th wRC+ (10th)
24th of 26 UZR/150 (8th)

most baseball stats are pretty much useless by themselves

 

[Rebbiv]

that's a little harsh. BA by itself can be an overrated stat but it is still very important.

How can it be still very important when you state it is overrated?

Batting average, by itself, does very little to tell you anything. Alan Trammell would hit .258 BAVG one year, and then .319 the next. What is the difference in those years? What does the BAVG tell us?

 

[Rebbiv]

most baseball stats are pretty much useless by themselves

Your opinion. Or should I say we mock what we do not understand.


Certainly counting stats are useless. Rate stats are better, but you have to understand their biases to know how effective they are.

However, baseball isn't baseball without the stats. There are certain stats like Runs Created which paint a pretty good picture, but laypeople cannot generate them (nor do they understand them). OPS is a simple stat that laypeople can do and it does a good, not great, job of comparing performance.

 

[tomdalton22]

How can it be still very important when you state it is overrated?

Batting average, by itself, does very little to tell you anything. Alan Trammell would hit .258 BAVG one year, and then .319 the next. What is the difference in those years? What does the BAVG tell us?

So batting average is not important at all? Say you have two players that both have an OBP of .350. One hits .310 and the other hits .270. The guy that has the better batting average is the better hitter and will be more productive.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I hate the term laypeople. Just seems like an insult. I get what it means but it just seems bad..

 

[tomdalton22]

Your opinion. Or should I say we mock what we do not understand.


Certainly counting stats are useless. Rate stats are better, but you have to understand their biases to know how effective they are.

However, baseball isn't baseball without the stats. There are certain stats like Runs Created which paint a pretty good picture, but laypeople cannot generate them (nor do they understand them). OPS is a simple stat that laypeople can do and it does a good, not great, job of comparing performance.

I'm talking about stats that are used by themselves. Walks are a useless stat by itself. Strikouts, runs, RBI, OBP, BAVG, etc are all useless by themselves.

 

[Rebbiv]

I hate the term laypeople. Just seems like an insult. I get what it means but it just seems bad..

How about "average Joe'?

 

[Mitchrapp]

How about "average Joe'?

That might work better. I don't mind being called an average Joe.

 

[Rebbiv]

So batting average is not important at all? Say you have two players that both have an OBP of .350. One hits .310 and the other hits .270. The guy that has the better batting average is the better hitter and will be more productive.

See Tom, what your example tells me is the .270 hitter with a .350 OBP can take a walk, therefore the more valuable of a player.

The .310 BAVG .350 OBP has everything tied to his hitting. When he has a slump, and all players do, then he has no real way of getting on base or working the opposing pitcher's count.

 

[firehim]

How can it be still very important when you state it is overrated?

Batting average, by itself, does very little to tell you anything. Alan Trammell would hit .258 BAVG one year, and then .319 the next. What is the difference in those years? What does the BAVG tell us?

It tells us that he had an off year when he hit .258. That he wasn't reaching base, that he wasn't driving in runs, that he wasn't scoring runs and he was making more outs. Batting average is a very important stat that is only considered to be overrated by people that want to claim that a player like Inge has enormous value when he was hitting .220.

 

[mhughes0021]

SOooo with the report that were going hard after Nathan.....I can semi understand DD wanting to dump salary to put into making his bullpen stronger. BUUUUuuuutt.....it still doesn't excuse the fact that we got nothing back. why not shop him for a 3b or lf?

 

[Mitchrapp]

But, as stated above, BAVG by itself doesn't tell the whole story. Even this average Joe knows that.

 

[Mitchrapp]

SOooo with the report that were going hard after Nathan.....I can semi understand DD wanting to dump salary to put into making his bullpen stronger. BUUUUuuuutt.....it still doesn't excuse the fact that we got nothing back. why not shop him for a 3b or lf?

But why worry about money now? He never did before..

 

[Rebbiv]

It tells us that he had an off year when he hit .258. That he wasn't reaching base, that he wasn't driving in runs, that he wasn't scoring runs and he was making more outs. Batting average is a very important stat that is only considered to be overrated by people that want to claim that a player like Inge has enormous value when he was hitting .220.

LOL...not sure what you are including to, but it certainly is funny.

There is roughly 26 weeks in a MLB season. The difference between a .258 hitter and a .300 hitter is roughly 1 hit a week. That is it. 1 hit a week is one seeing eye single. One bloop single. One infield single. Or the difference between a flyout or a double, triple or Home Run. And it only matters for that season. Over large sample sizes, players will wildly vary in BAVG.

 

[mhughes0021]

But why worry about money now? He never did before..

well its not really dumping money...its shifting it from starting pitching to BP money. Look im still not ok with it....but our BP has been horrid the last 3 years. If he thought he needed to shift some salary around to make it better than I guess that's what he needed to do.

 

[tomdalton22]

See Tom, what your example tells me is the .270 hitter with a .350 OBP can take a walk, therefore the more valuable of a player.

The .310 BAVG .350 OBP has everything tied to his hitting. When he has a slump, and all players do, then he has no real way of getting on base or working the opposing pitcher's count.

what it tells me is the guy that takes a bunch of walks is less likely to get runners in yet both will be on base the same percentage of the time for the people behind them. I would rather have the guy that can hit his way on base vs. the guy that takes walks (given they both have the same OBP)