Game 10: Lions @ Panthers Thread

[tomdalton22]

Caldwell and Cooter fixed his int problem. And like 4 picks this year aren't his fault. Stafford is just a good if not better than Wilson as a passer. Wilson has the mobility which saves him so much. And I don't know why DEs run full speed at Wilson. he just moves to the side then makes a throw to an open WR.

comp%
wilson 65.0
Matt 62.5

YPA
Wilson 8.3
Matt 7.1

TD%
wilson 6.2
Matt 4.5

INT%
wilson 1.9
Matt 2.3

Rating
Wilson 102.1
Matt 89.6 (hasn't had a full season above Wilson's career average) :lmao:

Just stop trying to compare Matt to elite QBs. Matt is good...just not great.

 

[LKP]

comp%
wilson 65.0
Matt 62.5

YPA
Wilson 8.3
Matt 7.1

TD%
wilson 6.2
Matt 4.5

INT%
wilson 1.9
Matt 2.3

Rating
Wilson 102.1
Matt 89.6 (hasn't had a full season above Wilson's career average) :lmao:

Just stop trying to compare Matt to elite QBs. Matt is good...just not great.

Those are team stats. Got to watch the game tape play by play to see that Matt is the better passer

 

[tomdalton22]

Those are team stats. Got to watch the game tape play by play to see that Matt is the better passer

lol...of course...your only "argument" is that Stafford (I am relatively sure he is the only QB you watch) is better because he passes your "eye test" when all measurable statistics say that Wilson is better.

Never mind the stats...just use the eye test:lmao:

 

[LKP]

lol...of course...your only "argument" is that Stafford (I am relatively sure he is the only QB you watch) is better because he passes your "eye test" when all measurable statistics say that Wilson is better.

Never mind the stats...just use the eye test:lmao:

I proved time and time again how much other players affect those stats

Swift drop takes away a TD, Marvin penalty (yards and TD last week), lack of separation, drops, bad protection causing bad throws or missed opportunities for yards and completions. It's a team sport and stat. It shows the QB made the play but when the stats aren't there, it might not be the QBS fault. So again, you have to actually watch the game tape and determine the reasoning.

Notice the drops, notice the pressure, notice how open the WRS are compared to others. I have watched most of Wilsons games and all of Staffords. NFL Game Pass you can watch games quickly without commericials or time between snaps. Plus the All 22 coaches tape view

 

[gotime909]

Staff struggles reading a defense pre snap. Great qbs like Wilson do not.

 

[tomdalton22]

I proved time and time again how much other players affect those stats

Swift drop takes away a TD, Marvin penalty (yards and TD last week), lack of separation, drops, bad protection causing bad throws or missed opportunities for yards and completions. It's a team sport and stat. It shows the QB made the play but when the stats aren't there, it might not be the QBS fault. So again, you have to actually watch the game tape and determine the reasoning.

Notice the drops, notice the pressure, notice how open the WRS are compared to others. I have watched most of Wilsons games and all of Staffords. NFL Game Pass you can watch games quickly without commericials or time between snaps. Plus the All 22 coaches tape view

every QB deals with drops, penalties, bad protection, injuries, etc. Over the course of as many seasons that Russ and Matt have played, those things are relatively equal...at least close enough to be able to use the career stats that I showed you to come to the conclusion that Russ is better.

Matt's a relatively good QB...probably around the top 10 in most seasons he has played...he just isn't in the same class as some of the really good QBs like Wilson, AR, Brady, Ben, Etc. It's OK...you can still keep your Matt Stafford PJ's.

 

[LKP]

Staff struggles reading a defense pre snap. Great qbs like Wilson do not.

Stafford is known great reader of the defense. His guys just aren't blocking enough or getting open or providing enough run support or short fields or Time of possession with the defense getting off the field. Stafford is a savvy savvy vet who can read presnap in his sleep

 

[Mitchrapp]

comp%
wilson 65.0
Matt 62.5

YPA
Wilson 8.3
Matt 7.1

TD%
wilson 6.2
Matt 4.5

INT%
wilson 1.9
Matt 2.3

Rating
Wilson 102.1
Matt 89.6 (hasn't had a full season above Wilson's career average) :lmao:

Just stop trying to compare Matt to elite QBs. Matt is good...just not great.

And you stop saying Matt is good

 

[tomdalton22]

And you stop saying Matt is good

He is a starting QB in the NFL. He is usually near the top 10, definitely top 15. I would call that good. You could call it above average if you want...but he is better than average. Unfortunately, that isn't good enough with what the Lions have put around him. The rest of the team is hot garbage. Stafford is probably the best player on the team.

 

[Mitchrapp]

He is a starting QB in the NFL. He is usually near the top 10, definitely top 15. I would call that good. You could call it above average if you want...but he is better than average. Unfortunately, that isn't good enough with what the Lions have put around him. The rest of the team is hot garbage. Stafford is probably the best player on the team.

He's hardly ever top 10. And 15 is average, not good. Unless they added a dozen more teams last night. And this year he's average at best. Just like half his career. '12, '13, '14, '18 '20. I skipped his first two seasons because of his injuries. So 5 of ten not so good. And other years you might he say he's been decent/solid but inconsistent.

 

[LKP]

Maholmes and Wilson would have a QB rating of 40 with this total lack of support. They would throw 30 picks a season.

 

[mhughes0021]

There was one point late in the game...i think it was coming off Trufants INT if i remember correctly where i was like "alright...lets see if we can make this interesting. Stop running the damn ball and let Staff open it up. We need to score quick if were going to get into this game."

Slow developing Sweep left to Kerryon
Slow developing Sweep left to Kerryon
CALLED QB Read Option Stafford runs right into a dlineman.

"fuck this team!"

 

[mhughes0021]

Stafford was 18-33. That sucks.

Stafford led us to be 3 -14 on 3rd down vs the WORST 3rd down defense in the LEAGUE!

Stafford is a fringe top 20 QB....Hes barely top 20 in QB rating behind the likes of Garner Minshew.

This team sucks. Stafford blows. 12 years of losing and most of it is his fault.

 

[LKP]

Stafford was 18-33. That sucks.

Stafford led us to be 3 -14 on 3rd down vs the WORST 3rd down defense in the LEAGUE!

Stafford is a fringe top 20 QB....Hes barely top 20 in QB rating behind the likes of Garner Minshew.

This team sucks. Stafford blows. 12 years of losing and most of it is his fault.

Yeah with like 5 drops and 5 incompletions due to nobody open. Not to mention the beauty of a TD throw to Marvin that is not even in those stats due to one step back not done by Marvin. Becomes awesome day really quickly

WATCH THE GAME AND ANALYZE THE REASON FOR EVERY SINGLE INCOMPLETION. IT IS RARELY STAFFORDS FAULT

 

[tomdalton22]

He's hardly ever top 10. And 15 is average, not good. Unless they added a dozen more teams last night. And this year he's average at best. Just like half his career. '12, '13, '14, '18 '20. I skipped his first two seasons because of his injuries. So 5 of ten not so good. And other years you might he say he's been decent/solid but inconsistent.

Maybe I'm being a little generous with my choice of adjective. I have almost always described him as above average or good...most of the time I say above average.

As far as the yearly rankings, he has been pretty consistent. There are always some anomalies every year...a guy that has a career year that we all know isn't very good.

I prefer to put them in tiers.

Tier 1
Mahomes
AR
Wilson
Ben
Brady
Brees

Tier 2
Watson
Prescott
Rivers

Tier 3
Ryan
Cousins
Jackson
Stafford
Goff
Carr
Tannehill
Wentz (falling)
Dalton
Smith
Winston (Falling)
Newton (falling)

I honestly think Stafford is towards the top of tier 2. Many are interchangeable. I would put Burrows and Herbert in that tier but they are so unproven that you never know (see Lamar Jackson)

Is he top 9...no. Is he in the top 10-15 most years, I would say yes. I would describe that as above average or good...depending on what descriptive word you like better.

 

[tomdalton22]

Maholmes and Wilson would have a QB rating of 40 with this total lack of support. They would throw 30 picks a season.

I will say that Mahomes is in a great spot. He has a good coach, good GM, a serviceable D and good offensive weapons. That said, he has been spectacular...like out of this world good.

Wilson may be dealt a worse hand than Stafford this year. His OL is worse, run game similar, much worse defense. He does have 2 good WRs. The difference between the two is Wilson is more accurate and due to his legs he is able to extend plays & escape the pocket which helps the passing game significantly. Also, his running ability makes the passing game easier due to LBs spying and safeties having to keep an eye on him.

 

[LKP]

I will say that Mahomes is in a great spot. He has a good coach, good GM, a serviceable D and good offensive weapons. That said, he has been spectacular...like out of this world good.

Wilson may be dealt a worse hand than Stafford this year. His OL is worse, run game similar, much worse defense. He does have 2 good WRs. The difference between the two is Wilson is more accurate and due to his legs he is able to extend plays & escape the pocket which helps the passing game significantly. Also, his running ability makes the passing game easier due to LBs spying and safeties having to keep an eye on him.

Maholmes has been great. Stafford had a higher QB rating in 2019 than him. But Maholmes has been great BECAUSE he gets the support. It's not just him putting the team on his back. Alex Smith, yeah Alex Smith led the league in QB rating in 2017 with the Chiefs, the year before Maholmes started (Maholmes rookie year where he sat no the bench and learned which is another plus that Stafford was not afforded). Maholmes took it up a notch because they got better weapons than what Smith had too

 

[tomdalton22]

Maholmes has been great. Stafford had a higher QB rating in 2019 than him. But Maholmes has been great BECAUSE he gets the support. It's not just him putting the team on his back. Alex Smith, yeah Alex Smith led the league in QB rating in 2017 with the Chiefs, the year before Maholmes started (Maholmes rookie year where he sat no the bench and learned which is another plus that Stafford was not afforded). Maholmes took it up a notch because they got better weapons than what Smith had too

well, Matt only played 1/2 of the season. We all know what was likely to happen the second half of the season...his QB rating would have fallen...like it almost always does.

Matt's career QB rating
September 91.9
Oct 92.8
November 84.0
December 88.4

 

[LKP]

well, Matt only played 1/2 of the season. We all know what was likely to happen the second half of the season...his QB rating would have fallen...like it almost always does.

Matt's career QB rating
September 91.9
Oct 92.8
November 84.0
December 88.4

Injuries start hitting more in November and December it seems
2018 back, 2011 finger, 2016 finger. 2018 lost Marvin, traded Tate, lost Kerryon but 100 QB rating before that

But he also had the 19 TD 2 int second half in 2015. 2012 was injuries galore second half. Burleson, Broyles, Pettigrew etc there was nobody left when they went 0-8 to finish 2012. 2013 more weapon injuries and there were so so so many picks that were not his fault that year. Giants and Tampa game especially

Who knows what would have happened in 2019. Kerryon was hurt, Marvin did get hurt but the schedule was pretty soft second half of 2019. Matt could have gone on a run too and had an even higher QB rating. We will never know

 

[tomdalton22]

How pathetic are the Lions?

They are hosting the 3-7 Texans on Thanksgiving and the Lions are a 3 point dog.