Game 12: Lions @ Bears Thread

[tomdalton22]

Refs screwed them in 2019 too. Schedule was easier second half. They were competitive with Blough/Driskel in Cowboys, Bears, Washington, Packers games and screwed in first Packers and Chiefs game

GMs picked players well. But the Patricia hire was a good idea (stealing from Pats) but didn't work out because he was too stuck on his scheme getting slower players as a result and not putting them in a position to win (no stunts, low blitzes, little zone). Caldwell 2 years of Mayhew and Quin. Quin kept him after 7-9 and didn't just take Patricia right away. Mayhew was Caldwell and up and coming Schwartz. Schwartz was an unknown up and coming DC. He was basically what Saleh is but nobody knew Schwartz would fail so hard in final 2 seasons. He got an extension prior to 2012! And let's look at OC. Patricia kept Cooter (because they did well in 2017) and then 2018 was a dud predictable play calling year (plus injuries (Marvin/Kerryon), Tate trade and Stafford back injury. It's not cut and dry. There are alot of things to go into every decision and why and then why it suceeds or fails.

And Schwartz and Patricia had their scheme but picked bad DCs. Gunther, Paul P and Undlin. They didn't get creative DCs. And that is on the Coach not GM picking those. Same with Caldwell picking Lombardi and Oline coach Prince. Linehan was a solid OC and Gunther super experienced. Schwartz surrounded himself with experience being a brand new HC. Linehan had some good times but didn't care to fix turnover issues (both QB, weapon caused ints and fumbles by RBs/WRs). Gunther was old school running the 4-3 Wide 9 that Schwartz wanted. That defense has worked before. Austin kept alot of that stuff when he took over too as they stayed 4-3 under Caldwell.

Patricia was the multiple fronts but didnt do any disguised stuff or stunts or disguised zones. He is full on man to man but wanted slower LBs and CBs and box yet "versatile" safeties. And DEs who bull rush to hold contain and don't win with speed. And then he didn't change it up enough so the offenses knew how to beat it and knew they would see it most plays

Patricia never got a Hightower or Gilmore or McCourtys. He got Flowers and Collins and Harmon though and they played well. The adding Patriot players was the success story. And Romeo Okwara this year.

this is so funny. you say the GMs made good choices with coaches and players, then go on to say those coaches made bad hires. Guess what...if the coach that was hired by the GM made bad hires...either the coach was bad or the GM was bad for hiring a coach because he couldn't hire a good staff.

Then they get the wrong players for the team. Either the players were bad to begin with or the coaching was bad, and in turn, the decisions that led up to the hiring of coaches, and or player acquisitions, were bad.

Somebody fucked up. I think it was everybody. The GMs hired the wrong coaches, the coaches hired the wrong staff, the GMs did a poor job in free agency and in the draft.

 

[mhughes0021]

LeShoure I definitely missed. After that Achilles tear......he was terrible. Not an NFL level back.

Best I did actually think about. I didn?t put him on there because he had huge talent. Game changing talent....but he couldn?t overcome the concussion problems.

Yes, the Lions took a big risk with the pick.....but if it had worked out....

But, that?s why their the Lions.

I think we all forget about dumbron. Edrop. What was his name? The guy we picked over Aaron Donald.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think we all forget about dumbron. Edrop. What was his name? The guy we picked over Aaron Donald.

It was Megatrons running mate...Droptimus prime.

 

[mhughes0021]

It was Megatrons running mate...Droptimus prime.

Hi Mr GM....you are clearly going to lose SUh and Fairley and having a glaring hole on your Dline.

With the dumbest pick in the NFL draft the Detroit Lions select: Droptimus Prime.

 

[LKP]

Coaches can be good coaches but make bad position coach hires (or be hindered to who is available and willing to come to Detroit). Can't always just pick and choose who you want easily.

GM can be good but take the players the coach wants to fit their scheme (and the leftover players look bad too then)

And of course injuries can derail many years of success too. 2011 perfect example of that. First 10 games defense is humming for Detroit forcing turnovers like crazy. Then 4 DBs get hurt and the Lions pass defense looks like shit. Hmm i wonder why.

GM can pick good players but they can be coached poorly. Like if you got stud Oline but you got Prince as your Oline coach, it can fail. The HC can't coach every position

 

[LKP]

Hi Mr GM....you are clearly going to lose SUh and Fairley and having a glaring hole on your Dline.

With the dumbest pick in the NFL draft the Detroit Lions select: Droptimus Prime.

Lions unlucky to really need a TE (had Suh/Fairley) and Rams really lucky to need a DT at the time and for Donald to drop like 11 spots not just 1 spot.

 

[tomdalton22]

Lions unlucky to really need a TE (had Suh/Fairley) and Rams really lucky to need a DT at the time and for Donald to drop like 11 spots not just 1 spot.

They weren't unlucky, they needed a TE because the same GM wasted a first round pick on another bust of a TE. One bad decision was compounded by another.

Guess who was selected right after Petidrop...Alex Mack. A 6 time pro bowler, 3x first team all pro, 3x second team all pro.

 

[byco42]

Lions unlucky to really need a TE (had Suh/Fairley) and Rams really lucky to need a DT at the time and for Donald to drop like 11 spots not just 1 spot.

There are 2-3 premium TEs in the league in any one season. The rest are blockers who eat. Picking Ebron as the #10 pick was sheer idiocy.

The Lions have had one elite tight end in franchise history. One. And he was drafted in the third round after Greg Landry and Jerry Depoyster, a kicker.

I will not count Ron Kramer because he only played two seasons in Detroit.

So I am still wondering what the urgency was to pick Ebron, or Hockenson, for that matter.

 

[LKP]

They weren't unlucky, they needed a TE because the same GM wasted a first round pick on another bust of a TE. One bad decision was compounded by another.

Guess who was selected right after Petidrop...Alex Mack. A 6 time pro bowler, 3x first team all pro, 3x second team all pro.

Believe they had just resigned Raiola. They loved them some Raiola and Backus. We got our center in Ragnow eventually

 

[tomdalton22]

Believe they had just resigned Raiola. They loved them some Raiola and Backus. We got our center in Ragnow eventually

They weren't unlucky, they needed a TE because the same GM wasted a first round pick on another bust of a TE. One bad decision was compounded by another.

you forgot to address the main point

 

[LKP]

you forgot to address the main point

Pettigrew drafted where he was ranked scout wise. Needed a TE too in 2009. You forget Pettigrew got hurt twice with knee stuff and got slower in 2012/2013 plus the 2009 injury. Had a nice 2011 season.

TE was a need in 2009 and 2014 and again in 2019 (Ebron cut for cap stuff too then had monster 700 yard 13 TD season). Just happened to have TEs rated around 20 and 10 be avaialable at the time we needed to draft is the point. We had signed Raiola way earlier so didn't need a center. And we had Suh and Fairley and thought could lock one of them up so didn't need Donald. Could have been OBJ too but Lions had just signed Tate way prior to that draft. Sooo like I said, if you pay attention to every single sentence i say. There is a reason for everything and why it happesn that way

Potential BPA met need. Lions ended up TE 3 times from that with injuries and cap reasons in there as well. There is a benefit to taking TE often and RB Round 2. Cheaper deals for them compared to paying a FA. Could have a really good one like Kittle/Kelce but then you got to pay him like a WR

And Ebron got 6.5 per from the Colts and 6 per from the Steelers. Lions only had to pay him 3 per on that rookie deal. And did the Ebron pick hinder things that much. Playoffs 2 out 4 seasons and 9-7 in 2017. Lions 36-28 with Ebron on the roster

Lions dump him and offense took a hit. Marvin injury, Golden trade and KJ injury and Stafford back injury also caused that hit in 2018. But TE play was atrocious in 2018. So enter Hock and also overpaying Jessie James as overreaction

But Hock is looking great BTW

 

[tomdalton22]

Pettigrew drafted where he was ranked scout wise. Needed a TE too in 2009. You forget Pettigrew got hurt twice with knee stuff and got slower in 2012/2013 plus the 2009 injury. Had a nice 2011 season.

TE was a need in 2009 and 2014 and again in 2019 (Ebron cut for cap stuff too then had monster 700 yard 13 TD season). Just happened to have TEs rated around 20 and 10 be avaialable at the time we needed to draft is the point. We had signed Raiola way earlier so didn't need a center. And we had Suh and Fairley and thought could lock one of them up so didn't need Donald. Could have been OBJ too but Lions had just signed Tate way prior to that draft. Sooo like I said, if you pay attention to every single sentence i say. There is a reason for everything and why it happesn that way

Potential BPA met need. Lions ended up TE 3 times from that with injuries and cap reasons in there as well.

And Ebron got 6.5 per from the Colts and 6 per from the Steelers. Lions only had to pay him 3 per on that rookie deal

I was just pointing out that the GM's made mistakes...even the ones that you said did a good job. Picking two shitty TE's in the first round isn't wise. "Thinking" you are going to lock up one of those two is different than actually doing it. It turns out that not signing them was the right move (even though it wasn't really their call) but not taking Donald was a mistake. Even if you did sign Suh, drafting Donald was still the right call since you need 2 DTs. What happened...they had zero DTs and 2 shitty TEs.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I was just pointing out that the GM's made mistakes...even the ones that you said did a good job. Picking two shitty TE's in the first round isn't wise. "Thinking" you are going to lock up one of those two is different than actually doing it. It turns out that not signing them was the right move (even though it wasn't really their call) but not taking Donald was a mistake. Even if you did sign Suh, drafting Donald was still the right call since you need 2 DTs. What happened...they had zero DTs and 2 shitty TEs.

Good teams draft replacements before they NEED to do it. So you draft Donald and Re-Sign Suh. Let Suh play out the most expensive years of his deal while Donald is on the cheapest....have a dominant DL....then trade/cut Suh when it's time to pay Donald.

That's not rocket science, Patricia (that's toward LKP, not you Tom).....its in the GM 101 book.

 

[tomdalton22]

Good teams draft replacements before they NEED to do it. So you draft Donald and Re-Sign Suh. Let Suh play out the most expensive years of his deal while Donald is on the cheapest....have a dominant DL....then trade/cut Suh when it's time to pay Donald.

That's not rocket science, Patricia (that's toward LKP, not you Tom).....its in the GM 101 book.

so, the Lions top 3 WRs will be free agents after the 2020 season. You are saying the GM 101 handbook would suggest that it would have been a good idea to draft a WR in the 2020 draft? Especially in a draft that was considered to be one of the deepest in recent history?

I have been watching a lot of those rookie WRs make an impact this year. They had the #3 pick in the draft...I'm sure a good GM might have considered trading back to stockpile some picks and could have addressed several needs including WR, DE, LB, CB, DT, RB.

:tup:

 

[LKP]

I was just pointing out that the GM's made mistakes...even the ones that you said did a good job. Picking two shitty TE's in the first round isn't wise. "Thinking" you are going to lock up one of those two is different than actually doing it. It turns out that not signing them was the right move (even though it wasn't really their call) but not taking Donald was a mistake. Even if you did sign Suh, drafting Donald was still the right call since you need 2 DTs. What happened...they had zero DTs and 2 shitty TEs.

Wrong. They traded for Ngata. But who knows. It's hindsight. Donald could tear his ACL here every year. Then you are bashing him. You never know. And Patricia could have booted him out of town for being too small

 

[tomdalton22]

Wrong. They traded for Ngata. But who knows. It's hindsight. Donald could tear his ACL here every year. Then you are bashing him. You never know. And Patricia could have booted him out of town for being too small

or, they could have traded for Ngata and drafted Donald. The interior of their DL would have been better than it was with Suh and Fairley. They might have been able to build a dominant defense around the two of them.

 

[mhughes0021]

so, the Lions top 3 WRs will be free agents after the 2020 season. You are saying the GM 101 handbook would suggest that it would have been a good idea to draft a WR in the 2020 draft? Especially in a draft that was considered to be one of the deepest in recent history?

I have been watching a lot of those rookie WRs make an impact this year. They had the #3 pick in the draft...I'm sure a good GM might have considered trading back to stockpile some picks and could have addressed several needs including WR, DE, LB, CB, DT, RB.

:tup:

Yes i had us taking KJ Hamler in rd 2.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Yes i had us taking KJ Hamler in rd 2.

Damn it Hughes, we will NOT have players with speed play for this franchise!!!

Amendola - check
Cephus - check
Jones - check
Golladay - check
Hall - cut
Sanu -check
Agnew - worst of all the WR.....lets keep him!

 

[mhughes0021]

I hope marvin hall goes to GB and becomes a hall of Famer.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I hope marvin hall goes to GB and becomes a hall of Famer.

Browns.

Cleveland claimed him.