Game 9: WFT @ Lions Thread

[boogerlovejoy]

The Detroit education system has failed you all

It doesn't HAVE to be Staffords fault just because is he the QB. Get that through your thick skulls and actually watch the game and plays and analyze what happens.

You guys are the generalization kings

Maybe you don't know what generalization is. That's when people say.....

Ebron 2nd year. Jarrad Davis 2nd year. THOSE are generalizations.

"Defense has talent". Uh, no....it clearly doesn't. THAT is a generalization.

"Weapon separation". LOL. MASSIVE generalization.

You can't call people out for doing EXACTLY what you do on an everyday basis. It's those statements that keep people thinking you're the board fool. Do you realize that? You are a joke on this board....and it won't change until you realize why. You can have all the opinions about all the players you want....but until a bit of reality creeps in to your brain, you will continue to be.

 

[LKP]

Maybe you don't know what generalization is. That's when people say.....

Ebron 2nd year. Jarrad Davis 2nd year. THOSE are generalizations.

"Defense has talent". Uh, no....it clearly doesn't. THAT is a generalization.

"Weapon separation". LOL. MASSIVE generalization.

You can't call people out for doing EXACTLY what you do on an everyday basis. It's those statements that keep people thinking you're the board fool. Do you realize that? You are a joke on this board....and it won't change until you realize why. You can have all the opinions about all the players you want....but until a bit of reality creeps in to your brain, you will continue to be.

Thats the point. Blaming the QB is a generalization especially when you can physically look at all the plays and see that it wasn't his fault.

The defense does have talent. That's a fact. To say it has no talent is just stupid.

Weapon separation also is a next gen stat that is a fact Lions do poorly at it. Which makes life harder for Stafford than other QBs. The good news is they can make contested catches but Stafford has to be more accurate than most QBs because of it. So they can be a good WR even without getting separation if they produce. Which they do (also facts with stats)

And the year 2 is an if statement. Typically in year 2 players do get better. Not all of them and i have said that several times and Tavai and Harris didn't. It's not always linear progression. But if they progress as expected, it's a not a hole. Those conversations happen before the season which the as expected would come in. Do you understand the logic?

 

[mhughes0021]

Thats the point. Blaming the QB is a generalization especially when you can physically look at all the plays and see that it wasn't his fault.

The defense does have talent. That's a fact. To say it has no talent is just stupid.

Weapon separation also is a next gen stat that is a fact Lions do poorly at it. Which makes life harder for Stafford than other QBs. The good news is they can make contested catches but Stafford has to be more accurate than most QBs because of it. So they can be a good WR even without getting separation if they produce. Which they do (also facts with stats)

And the year 2 is an if statement. Typically in year 2 players do get better. Not all of them and i have said that several times and Tavai and Harris didn't. It's not always linear progression. But if they progress as expected, it's a not a hole. Those conversations happen before the season which the as expected would come in. Do you understand the logic?

i dont need next gen stats. Detroit is 21st in 3rd down conversion @ 41%. Right there with a ANDY DALTON/INSERT CRAPPY BACK UP Dallas team. We dont run on 3rd down. Thats on the qb not being able to sustain drives. He is now known for taking a horrible sack on 3rd down...typically to knock us out of or further back of FG range.

Facts.

 

[LKP]

i dont need next gen stats. Detroit is 21st in 3rd down conversion @ 41%. Right there with a ANDY DALTON/INSERT CRAPPY BACK UP Dallas team. We dont run on 3rd down. Thats on the qb not being able to sustain drives. He is now known for taking a horrible sack on 3rd down...typically to knock us out of or further back of FG range.

Facts.

Next gen stat is a part of the analysis and could be a part of the REASON why 3rd down fails. If nobody is getting open, how in the world is that Staffords fault? And Lions do run on 3rd down and short. They are poor at picking up first downs when running on 3rd and short which is part of that 3rd down %. To ignore that and mainly blame Stafford for the % is dumb.

Also blocking can be an issue. Down and distance is a thing that matters for conversion rate. If its 3rd and 15 because the Lions had a dumbass holding penalty or two bad runs with crap play calls, then the probability of converting 3rd down is very low. Again which is why you can't be putting the majority of the blame on Stafford for that 3rd down conversion percentage because if you watch the plays you can see for yourself what set up that 3rd and long. You have to look at everything. 3rd down conversions alot are Stafford carrying the team in bad situations sometimes with nobody really open. Sometimes its making plays with open guys too and Stafford doing a good job finding them.

And sacks are more on Oline/blitz pickups most of the time not always. Sometimes it could be bad QB pocket presence but that could also be a result of poor blocking, obvious passing downs and weapons not getting open. If nobody is open and there is pressure coming, QBs are going to have to move around in the pocket and could take sacks from it. There is a blocking scheme as well and play calls that could be made differently to keep Stafford cleaner in the pocket. I think you guys blame Stafford a little too much for sacks. Oline is solid but banged up but there are plays when stuff is their fault.

Lions are 9th in league in passing first downs per game.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-first-downs-per-game
21st in rushing first down per game
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-first-downs-per-game

Lions 8th most offensive penalties in league.
5th best in 4th down conversions per league converted.

You guys remember like 1 or 2 plays and assume that is happening all the time. Same with the picks or misthrows.

But Lions still very much in this. We'll see how Staffords injury is and what the Lions do in these next 7 games.

Past two seasons has been battle back to .500 by around mid-season then go down in flames in the second half. If that happens again Patricia and Quinn are gone and we got a rebuild on defense and WR. And DT, LB, FS, WR will need to be addressed anyway with FAs/cap crunch with decreasing COVID cap

 

[Mitchrapp]

"Lions 8th most offensive penalties in league." That means Lions suck. So some calls went against them, all teams go through it. Suck it up.

 

[LKP]

"Lions 8th most offensive penalties in league." That means Lions suck. So some calls went against them, all teams go through it. Suck it up.

It means its harder for stafford..doesnt mean they suck

Bears lead defensive penalties but have a top 5 defense

 

[brewer229]

Seattle's Oline makes ours look like it's full of All Pros.

 

[byco42]

I'm reminded that three of the Lions' wins are against opponents with a combined six wins. The other win was against an opponent with six wins. The five losses are against teams with a combined 29 wins. They were ahead in every loss, save one. So the Lions have proven that they can beat the bad teams and lose to the better teams and blow leads in the process.

 

[LKP]

I'm reminded that three of the Lions' wins are against opponents with a combined six wins. The other win was against an opponent with six wins. The five losses are against teams with a combined 29 wins. They were ahead in every loss, save one. So the Lions have proven that they can beat the bad teams and lose to the better teams and blow leads in the process.

Can they figure out how to not blow leads. Pressure and coverage. Okwara is playing well. Need Flowers back. Hand needs more pass rush. Nick Williams back healthy this week but he has done nothing for pass rush. Secondary finally healthy and the LBS goes by how Collins plays that day.

Carolina and Houston are bad teams. The Bears have been terrible but still have a good defense. One game at a time but must win the next 3

 

[byco42]

Can they figure out how to not blow leads. Pressure and coverage. Okwara is playing well. Need Flowers back. Hand needs more pass rush. Nick Williams back healthy this week but he has done nothing for pass rush. Secondary finally healthy and the LBS goes by how Collins plays that day.

Carolina and Houston are bad teams. The Bears have been terrible but still have a good defense. One game at a time but must win the next 3

four-and-five. Zero Super Bowl appearances in franchise history. One playoff win in 63 years.

In the NFL, to quote Gordon Gekko, "The rest is conversation."

 

[LKP]

four-and-five. Zero Super Bowl appearances in franchise history. One playoff win in 63 years.

In the NFL, to quote Gordon Gekko, "The rest is conversation."

That has nothing to do with the next 7 games.

 

[byco42]

That has nothing to do with the next 7 games.

So you fail to see a pattern. Not surprised. Suddenly, everything will right itself on a dime. I mean, the Lions finally have the "right" people running the organization and coaching the team: ex-patriots. And we've all seen how effective they have been for 2.5+ seasons.

13-27-1.

 

[LKP]

So you fail to see a pattern. Not surprised. Suddenly, everything will right itself on a dime. I mean, the Lions finally have the "right" people running the organization and coaching the team: ex-patriots. And we've all seen how effective they have been for 2.5+ seasons.

13-27-1.

All those games don't matter. Start with the Panthers and get back to .500

The 8 losses without Stafford skew some things too when looking at the past records for this regime. Plus the 2 games refs cost them in first half of 2019.

Lions are banged up but need to win

 

[byco42]

All those games don't matter. Start with the Panthers and get back to .500

They matter to me because it reflect a legacy of failure with no reasonable expectation of improvement.

The 8 losses without Stafford skew some things too when looking at the past records for this regime.

So the Lions organization was not prepared to supply a capable backup. Blough and Driskol? Well, there ya go.

In 1972, Bob Griese broke his ankle in game two and missed the entire regular season. In 1968, Johnny Unitas was injured in the pre-season. Both times, Earl Morrall stepped in seamlessly. Teddy Bridgewater guided the Saints to a 5-0 record after Brees was injured.

Jim Plunkett, Nick Foles, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler are examples of backup QBs who lead their teams to SB championships.

Plus the 2 games refs cost them in first half of 2019.

Packers and ?

Lions need to win

Fixed that last quote.

 

[LKP]

What a 1996 or 1983 Lions team failed out do not matter

Yep the backups sucked. With Stafford playing its a completely different teams. Take those 8 losses off when thinking about the success the Lions can have with Stafford. And they seemed to realize that and paid money for Chase Daniel

Packers and Chiefs. But the losses end up helping with earlier picks and Stafford got hurt anyway.

 

[byco42]

What a 1996 or 1983 Lions team failed out do not matter

Yep the backups sucked. With Stafford playing its a completely different teams. Take those 8 losses off when thinking about the success the Lions can have with Stafford. And they seemed to realize that and paid money for Chase Daniel

Packers and Chiefs. But the losses end up helping with earlier picks and Stafford got hurt anyway.

You apparently cannot acknowledge the truth that the Lions' organization is not presently capable of building a championship-caliber team, which is the sole objective of an NFL franchise. The number of seasons since 1964 that it has reached a small measure of success in that regard are three: 1970, 1991 and 2013. Three seasons of 57. 1970 is the outlier in that that team was good enough to win the Super Bowl.

 

[LKP]

You apparently cannot acknowledge the truth that the Lions' organization is not presently capable of building a championship-caliber team, which is the sole objective of an NFL franchise. The number of seasons since 1964 that it has reached a small measure of success in that regard are three: 1970, 1991 and 2013. Three seasons of 57. 1970 is the outlier in that that team was good enough to win the Super Bowl.

They change the builders often. Smaller sample size and takes time to build. Not looking for 2020 version but there is still time

 

[mhughes0021]

Can they figure out how to not blow leads. Pressure and coverage. Okwara is playing well. Need Flowers back. Hand needs more pass rush. Nick Williams back healthy this week but he has done nothing for pass rush. Secondary finally healthy and the LBS goes by how Collins plays that day.

Carolina and Houston are bad teams. The Bears have been terrible but still have a good defense. One game at a time but must win the next 3

We need all the people back that did nothing the first 6 games when they were on the field together and had the worst defense in the league? Thats how we get better?

brilliant....

 

[Mitchrapp]

The Lions need to have more injuries. Maybe because of it they get better.

 

[LKP]

We need all the people back that did nothing the first 6 games when they were on the field together and had the worst defense in the league? Thats how we get better?

brilliant....

Flowers and KG are good players. That's pretty clear

But KG looks like missing game too. Amendola out too. Hock and Marvin both playing hurt now with toe and knee. Swfit out with concussion. Stafford torn ligaments in his thumb. Vaitai constantly injured foot. Tons of injuries on offense. That's 7 starters by the way

Defense Flowers on IR one more week at least. Probably Thanksgiving game too. Big injury there still. First 7 weeks secondary was pretty banged up with Trufant several weeks, Coleman several weeks, Walker at least 2 weeks and Okudah (Week 1)

Flowers, Hand banged up, Williams on the Dline. Okwara and Griffen can handle at least. Hope Hand can play. Williams agree hasn't done much but maybe that is due to constant shoulder injuries

See what the rest of defense can do. Carolina banged up pretty bad too with Teddy, McCaffery, Okung, John Miller, Donte Jackson and Kawaan Short