Gholston update

[valleroe]

Elaborate, I didn't know they tracked "cheap" plays in football statistics. Personal fouls aren't always cheap plays, in fact most of the time they aren't. They are just stupid/self destructive plays that should be avoided. Btw I was referring to Gholston, the kid has never acted like this before.

Did you see that WSJ link? MSU is the 2nd worst offender. But I'm not just talking about Gholston of course. I've said (over and over) that we all get that these sorts of things happen. Looking at just one isolated incident doesn't paint the picture.

Just read it, my point stands. This is counting personal fouls, pfs aren't always cheap plays, in fact most of the time they aren't. I've watched this series the last 5 years ad none of the games i would call "dirty" games. This year's game was definately the most physical game of the series I've seen, but aside from Gholston's facemask garbage it was far from a "dirty" game. All the late hits were wrap up tackles executed right after ball delivery. The purpose of them was to throw off the internal timing of an already shaky passer; a tactic that seemed to work to perfection. None of the late hits appear to be malicious in any sense of the word, as I said they were text book wrap up tackles. So the Spartans have let their emotions run a little wild and have committed some dumb penalties, that is a far cry from being a cheap/dirty program. Gholston has never acted like this before and I can't remember a single play that was anywhere related to what Gholston did in the previous 4 games. Like I said, I watched all of them and they seemed to be physical, but clean games.

 

[redandguilty]

Did you see that WSJ link? MSU is the 2nd worst offender. But I'm not just talking about Gholston of course. I've said (over and over) that we all get that these sorts of things happen. Looking at just one isolated incident doesn't paint the picture.

Just read it, my point stands. This is counting personal fouls, pfs aren't always cheap plays, in fact most of the time they aren't. I've watched this series the last 5 years ad none of the games i would call "dirty" games. This year's game was definately the most physical game of the series I've seen, but aside from Gholston's facemask garbage it was far from a "dirty" game. All the late hits were wrap up tackles executed right after ball delivery. The purpose of them was to throw off the internal timing of an already shaky passer; a tactic that seemed to work to perfection. None of the late hits appear to be malicious in any sense of the word, as I said they were text book wrap up tackles. So the Spartans have let their emotions run a little wild and have committed some dumb penalties, that is a far cry from being a cheap/dirty program. Gholston has never acted like this before and I can't remember a single play that was anywhere related to what Gholston did in the previous 4 games. Like I said, I watched all of them and they seemed to be physical, but clean games.

WSJ Research seems to think there's some correlation between the penalties they count and dirty play. I agree with them. You apparently don't. If there was a better metric, I'm sure the results would be somewhat different from these rankings because the correlation can't be expected to be perfect, but this metric is probably good enough to say something about the teams or rivalries that fall on the extreme upper or lower end of the scale.

 

[b311j]

What is hilarious to us Spartans is how much we are in your fan heads. You guys areaabsolutely consumed with a team who you claim isn't even your biggest rival.

Says the person continually reading and posting in the Michigan section..........

 

[valleroe]

WSJ Research seems to think there's some correlation between the penalties they count and dirty play. I agree with them. You apparently don't. If there was a better metric, I'm sure the results would be somewhat different from these rankings because the correlation can't be expected to be perfect, but this metric is probably good enough to say something about the teams or rivalries that fall on the extreme upper or lower end of the scale.

Sorry, but statistics aren't the basis of all the truths in this world. Statistics should be interpretted with caution as they can be misleading; they can both lie and tell the truth. Am I to believe that minorities are evil and dispicable because they are overrepresented in the justice system? etc.etc. etc. im not a sociologist lol..

The point is I've actually watched those games and I can't remember seeing anything that would lead me to believe MSU was a dirty team coming out of the game. This past game was definately the most physical game of the past 5 years, but aside from the Gholston facemask, the rest of the game was physical, hard fought, and clean. If you think late wrap up tackles on a qb are "dirty" then we can have our differences of opinion. As a former defensive player, I loved the strategy of getting in these late text book wrap up tackles to throw off the timing of an already shaky passer. Denard completely lacked confidence and had no semblence of comfort in the pocket by the end of the game. Great game plan.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi wanted to "clear the air" on comments he made after the game that the Spartans were trying to play "60 minutes of unnecessary roughness."

"Obviously, it's a physical game, like it always is," he said after Tuesday's practice. "Obviously, I probably used a poor choice of words in what I said after the game.

"As you guys know, we don't teach foul play or dirty play at all. You guys know that, I think."

Well, let's take this guy out back and kick the shit out of him, what an evil asshole! Michigan fans are absolutely pathetic. What coach isn't going to defend his guy?

 

[hungry]

That's the thing, he won't get a scolding from the coach, he'll get a pat on the back. Narduzzi and Dontonio have already come out to defend the player and his actions.

Now you're totally full of shit and sound like an asshole. You honestly think he wasn't screamed at? Those stupid penalties if anything kept the game close. What coach doesn't defend his players in public?

You got beat, accept it, all of this is starting to sound like sour grapes in an attempt to hold onto some superiority if not on the scoreboard then some kind of moral superiority. It sounds pathetic. Is this how the U of M fan base takes losing?

All kinds of coaches will come out and say, "The behavior displayed by said player is unacceptable and I will do everything I can to ensure that it isn't repeated." I've heard it plenty, but you'll never hear it from Dantonio.

I didn't get beat. Michigan did. You didn't win. I didn't lose. It has nothing to do with a superiority complex or losing.

What were you thinking before you clicked on the MIchigan board..."I wonder if they're still talking about State?!?!" We're the ones obsessed, though...got it, troll.

 

[hungry]

That's the thing, he won't get a scolding from the coach, he'll get a pat on the back. Narduzzi and Dontonio have already come out to defend the player and his actions.

actually he got a scolding in game, it was televised... (reread my above post, it added a couple more things)

Also, the play immediately after the helmet incident Gholston and Denard exchanged words and patted eachother on the back (Denard is all class btw). For the rest of the game Gholston could be seen helping Denard up from the pile whenever he was around. Shit happens in the heat of the moment, the kid will get some time off and life will go on. Gholston has shown no previous dirty play tendencies, which leads me to believe he just let his emotions go a bit too much in this big rivalry game and that this was nothing more than an isolated incident.

How do we know what Dantonio was saying there? He might very well be yelling , "good job, keep it up" Are you a lipreader? His face doesn't ever change, so how can you tell?

"Shit happens in the heat of the moment" = condoning

I especially like it when Ghoulston just sort of lays out and hopes that the refs didn't see the necktwist.

 

[valleroe]

All kinds of coaches will come out and say, "The behavior displayed by said player is unacceptable and I will do everything I can to ensure that it isn't repeated." I've heard it plenty, but you'll never hear it from Dantonio.

I didn't get beat. Michigan did. You didn't win. I didn't lose. It has nothing to do with a superiority complex or losing.

What were you thinking before you clicked on the MIchigan board..."I wonder if they're still talking about State?!?!" We're the ones obsessed, though...got it, troll.

I like how you guys respond to a troll but not to me lol...

How do you know what he is saying? The coin flips both ways. However, based on the fact that I rarely see this kind of play from any of Dantonio's players, I'd be willing to bet he was chewing him out for being a dumbass. Condoning? Seriously? The dude deserves to be suspended, no questions asked. Gholston has never acted in this way and thus deserves a scolding and game suspension to teach him a lesson. That really is the end of that.

 

[redandguilty]

WSJ Research seems to think there's some correlation between the penalties they count and dirty play. I agree with them. You apparently don't. If there was a better metric, I'm sure the results would be somewhat different from these rankings because the correlation can't be expected to be perfect, but this metric is probably good enough to say something about the teams or rivalries that fall on the extreme upper or lower end of the scale.

Sorry, but statistics aren't the basis of all the truths in this world. Statistics should be interpretted with caution as they can be misleading; they can both lie and tell the truth. Am I to believe that minorities are evil and dispicable because they are overrepresented in the justice system? etc.etc. etc. im not a sociologist lol..

The point is I've actually watched those games and I can't remember seeing anything that would lead me to believe MSU was a dirty team coming out of the game. This past game was definately the most physical game of the past 5 years, but aside from the Gholston facemask, the rest of the game was physical, hard fought, and clean. If you think late wrap up tackles on a qb are "dirty" then we can have our differences of opinion. As a former defensive player, I loved the strategy of getting in these late text book wrap up tackles to throw off the timing of an already shaky passer. Denard completely lacked confidence and had no semblence of comfort in the pocket by the end of the game. Great game plan.

It's not just the stat, the stat is just an indicator and I get that but there's also the hockey player that got beat up and the ski mask thing and the "zero tolerance" statement followed by tolerance. This stuff is subjective, but it's also relative. If you think you can argue that Dantonio is a disciplinarian, I want to know, relative to who?

 

[hungry]

You have now reached the pinnacle of total moron.

Yes, he got yelled at for THE PENALTY because it cost 15 yards. He didn't/won't be yelled at for the dirty plays. Do you get it now?????????????

Well, I didn't know you went to the Spartan Football practices every day. You have no idea what he was told in practice this week or even after the game or even on the sidelines. Now I guess U of M fans claim they are psychic and/or have the ability for remote viewing. I've never seen a bigger bunch of whiners and babies in my life.

No, we don't need to see practice. We've heard it from Narduzzi and Dantonio since the game. Both coaches have come out and defended the plays. A good coach with morals would've said something to the effect that the plays were wrong and he would see to it that it was handled"

 

[hungry]

This needs to be reposted, I spent too much time typing it lol.

I'd be suprised and dissapointed if he doesn't get a 1-game suspension for the WIsky game. Gholston seems to be a good kid who plays with a ton of emotion, I had never seen him act way before last Saturday. A scolding from the coaching staff and a 1 game suspension should teach him that kind of behavior isn't acceptable. Enough of this labeling MSU as a thug team that took all sorts of cheap shots at Michigan, it's making you guys look silly and desperate. Watch the game again, all the late hits were wrap up tackles on Denard, it's not like they were spearing the kid. I'll take those kind of late hits here and there to throw off/rattle a qb every game if we need to. Even Gholston after that helmet incident immediately apologized to Denard and proceded to help him get up from the pile for the rest of the game. Mistakes happen, Gholston will be punished, end of story. Stop trying to tarnish a good hard fought victory by blaming a whole team for the actions (completely uncharacteristic at that) of a single player on the team.

Also, the coaches encourage this type of behavior? Seriously, it's hilarious to me that you believe that Dantonio and Narduzi taught Gholston that twisting a dude's helmet in a pile is acceptable. Both of their interviews were held immediately after the game, there is no way either one of them saw the helmet twist from all the way accross the field. To think that they condone that type of behavior is just ridiculous, seriously i don't know what to tell you. Narduzi's defense plays to intimidate, that's where he was going with his press conference, my coach used to use similiar language back in H.S. Same goes for Dantonio, he was referring to the play he saw, the punch. In a big rivarly game, the big guys up front push/piss eachother off and sometimes they do dumb shit like throwing a punch. Shit happens and Gholston will be punished for it. Once again, do you honestly think Dantonio has the eyes of a hawk (hawkeye) and was able to see the helmet twist that occurred under the pile? seriously stop grasping at straws.

You can complain about one thing, the helmet twist, that's it. Sorry but the rest of your non-sense is simply the salt of the loss being poured into internet rants.

I'm pretty sure the helmet twist happened about 5 feet from the MSU sideline...pretty good idea that it had a good chance of being viewed by someone.

 

[redandguilty]

All kinds of coaches will come out and say, "The behavior displayed by said player is unacceptable and I will do everything I can to ensure that it isn't repeated." I've heard it plenty, but you'll never hear it from Dantonio.

I didn't get beat. Michigan did. You didn't win. I didn't lose. It has nothing to do with a superiority complex or losing.

What were you thinking before you clicked on the MIchigan board..."I wonder if they're still talking about State?!?!" We're the ones obsessed, though...got it, troll.

I like how you guys respond to a troll but not to me lol...

We're not all online non-stop. You've got to give it more than an hour.

 

[hungry]

Did you see that WSJ link? MSU is the 2nd worst offender. But I'm not just talking about Gholston of course. I've said (over and over) that we all get that these sorts of things happen. Looking at just one isolated incident doesn't paint the picture.

Just read it, my point stands. This is counting personal fouls, pfs aren't always cheap plays, in fact most of the time they aren't. I've watched this series the last 5 years ad none of the games i would call "dirty" games. This year's game was definately the most physical game of the series I've seen, but aside from Gholston's facemask garbage it was far from a "dirty" game. All the late hits were wrap up tackles executed right after ball delivery. The purpose of them was to throw off the internal timing of an already shaky passer; a tactic that seemed to work to perfection. None of the late hits appear to be malicious in any sense of the word, as I said they were text book wrap up tackles. So the Spartans have let their emotions run a little wild and have committed some dumb penalties, that is a far cry from being a cheap/dirty program. Gholston has never acted like this before and I can't remember a single play that was anywhere related to what Gholston did in the previous 4 games. Like I said, I watched all of them and they seemed to be physical, but clean games.

No, the Marcus Rush roughing the passer penalty was late in the game, less than 2 minutes to go, up by 2td, and was well after the release. There was no need to 'throw off the timing" of the QB at that point. It sounds like you are condoning late hits on passers as a strategy to get a QB off his game here.

 

[hungry]

What is hilarious to us Spartans is how much we are in your fan heads. You guys areaabsolutely consumed with a team who you claim isn't even your biggest rival.

Says the person continually reading and posting in the Michigan section..........

No doubt. Then he asks why this isn't being discussed on the MSU section of these boards. The easy answer is that most of us posting here don't even go to the MSU section. We only visit the Michigan section and talk about topics that come up here.

The same things would be being said if some random player from IU had done the same things if Michigan had played them last saturday.

Of course, the whole WSJ stuff wouldn't be brought up, but that is brought up to show that this behavior is certainly not an isolated incident.

 

[hungry]

WSJ Research seems to think there's some correlation between the penalties they count and dirty play. I agree with them. You apparently don't. If there was a better metric, I'm sure the results would be somewhat different from these rankings because the correlation can't be expected to be perfect, but this metric is probably good enough to say something about the teams or rivalries that fall on the extreme upper or lower end of the scale.

Sorry, but statistics aren't the basis of all the truths in this world. Statistics should be interpretted with caution as they can be misleading; they can both lie and tell the truth. Am I to believe that minorities are evil and dispicable because they are overrepresented in the justice system? etc.etc. etc. im not a sociologist lol..

The point is I've actually watched those games and I can't remember seeing anything that would lead me to believe MSU was a dirty team coming out of the game. This past game was definately the most physical game of the past 5 years, but aside from the Gholston facemask, the rest of the game was physical, hard fought, and clean. If you think late wrap up tackles on a qb are "dirty" then we can have our differences of opinion. As a former defensive player, I loved the strategy of getting in these late text book wrap up tackles to throw off the timing of an already shaky passer. Denard completely lacked confidence and had no semblence of comfort in the pocket by the end of the game. Great game plan.

Of course, you're not going to believe that your team is dirty. You're biased.

Understood, you think its a great game plan to deliver late hits to a QB in order to shake his confidence...Sounds like something Narduzzi would say.

 

[hungry]

Defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi wanted to "clear the air" on comments he made after the game that the Spartans were trying to play "60 minutes of unnecessary roughness."

"Obviously, it's a physical game, like it always is," he said after Tuesday's practice. "Obviously, I probably used a poor choice of words in what I said after the game.

"As you guys know, we don't teach foul play or dirty play at all. You guys know that, I think."

Well, let's take this guy out back and kick the shit out of him, what an evil asshole! Michigan fans are absolutely pathetic. What coach isn't going to defend his guy?

SOunds like a guy that obviously realized that he stepped on his dick. Doesn't make what he said previously any less true. In fact, this is probably what he was directed to say by Hollis.

I have read it plenty where a coach has come out publicly and said that behavior like that won't be tolerated and that it will be handled appropriately. Guess you haven't.

 

[valleroe]

I see nothing wrong with getting in a few late hits to disrupt a QB's timing as long as they aren't malicious tackles which Rush's clearly wasn't. I feel a big problem in these arguments is that they are being carried on between people who for the most part never played the game. Why do you think Denard and Gholston were cool for the rest of the game after the helmet incident, its a physical game, emotions run high and shit does happen. If someone does cross the line they deserve punishment,but judging from how Gholston carried himself after that helmet incident, it's obvious he was ashamed of what he had done and showed nothing but class to Denard for the rest of the game. Gholston will get his game suspension and is in the dog house as we speak, move on with life.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Now you're totally full of shit and sound like an asshole. You honestly think he wasn't screamed at? Those stupid penalties if anything kept the game close. What coach doesn't defend his players in public?

You got beat, accept it, all of this is starting to sound like sour grapes in an attempt to hold onto some superiority if not on the scoreboard then some kind of moral superiority. It sounds pathetic. Is this how the U of M fan base takes losing?

All kinds of coaches will come out and say, "The behavior displayed by said player is unacceptable and I will do everything I can to ensure that it isn't repeated." I've heard it plenty, but you'll never hear it from Dantonio.

I didn't get beat. Michigan did. You didn't win. I didn't lose. It has nothing to do with a superiority complex or losing.

What were you thinking before you clicked on the MIchigan board..."I wonder if they're still talking about State?!?!" We're the ones obsessed, though...got it, troll.

I'll be damned if I'm gonna keep my mouth shut when you guys have a whole thread devoted to whining and crying as well as attacking my school and our coaches and players. You're damn right I'm over here defending them although I have condemned Gholston's cheap shots over and over.

It's this whole attitude attacking the team's and coaches integrity and acting like U of M is somehow superior that is pathetic and lame. I guess it's all you have to hold onto right now though after the humiliation the Wolverines suffered on the field Saturday. That's some weak ass shit and the next time U of M beats State I'll be the 1st to say good game, you guys were better today, congratulations on the win.

 

[hungry]

All kinds of coaches will come out and say, "The behavior displayed by said player is unacceptable and I will do everything I can to ensure that it isn't repeated." I've heard it plenty, but you'll never hear it from Dantonio.

I didn't get beat. Michigan did. You didn't win. I didn't lose. It has nothing to do with a superiority complex or losing.

What were you thinking before you clicked on the MIchigan board..."I wonder if they're still talking about State?!?!" We're the ones obsessed, though...got it, troll.

I like how you guys respond to a troll but not to me lol...

How do you know what he is saying? The coin flips both ways. However, based on the fact that I rarely see this kind of play from any of Dantonio's players, I'd be willing to bet he was chewing him out for being a dumbass. Condoning? Seriously? The dude deserves to be suspended, no questions asked. Gholston has never acted in this way and thus deserves a scolding and game suspension to teach him a lesson. That really is the end of that.

Well, i did respond to you, so I don't know what you're talking about there

and

yes, if you said, "well that shit happens" its the same as condoning it.

 

[redandguilty]

All kinds of coaches will come out and say, "The behavior displayed by said player is unacceptable and I will do everything I can to ensure that it isn't repeated." I've heard it plenty, but you'll never hear it from Dantonio.

I didn't get beat. Michigan did. You didn't win. I didn't lose. It has nothing to do with a superiority complex or losing.

What were you thinking before you clicked on the MIchigan board..."I wonder if they're still talking about State?!?!" We're the ones obsessed, though...got it, troll.

I'll be damned if I'm gonna keep my mouth shut when you guys have a whole thread devoted to whining and crying as well as attacking my school and our coaches and players. You're damn right I'm over here defending them although I have condemned Gholston's cheap shots over and over.

It's this whole attitude attacking the team's and coaches integrity and acting like U of M is somehow superior that is pathetic and lame. I guess it's all you have to hold onto right now though after the humiliation the Wolverines suffered on the field Saturday. That's some weak ass shit and the next time U of M beats State I'll be the 1st to say good game, you guys were better today, congratulations on the win.

The funny thing is that in the real world, when I talk to Spartans that I actually know, I say the better team won, and they express their disappointment in the coaches.