I hope the tigers sign ichiro to a 1 or 2 year deal

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espn report saying rangers letting hamilton speak with teams prior to an offer. Was expected...

I looked but could not find this.

All I saw was that the Rangers said they would not make any offers to Hamilton before he officially becomes a free agent.

 

[tigersofjustice]

Smyly is definitely still an unknown.

No he really isn't. You couldn't ask for a 23 year old with only two years of pro ball and no major league experience to pitch any better than he did.

 

[Mitchrapp]

No he really isn't. You couldn't ask for a 23 year old with only two years of pro ball and no major league experience to pitch any better than he did.

That's what makes him an unknown or do you assume he will get better year after year. Its one year, 18 starts where he had just as many crud games as good one.

 

[tigersofjustice]

That's what makes him an unknown or do you assume he will get better year after year. Its one year, 18 starts where he had just as many crud games as good one.

Even if he doesn't get any better, in 100 innings he had the 27th best year of any starting pitcher in the AL. If he was allowed to go say 180 innings and keep the same pace, he would have been close to the top 10.

So no, he doesn't need to get better to be a high quality pitcher for this team. But the fact is, he's 23 and a rookie and is pretty likely to get better as well. Not giving him a starting spot on this team at this point would border on mental retardation.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Even if he doesn't get any better, in 100 innings he had the 27th best year of any starting pitcher in the AL. If he was allowed to go say 180 innings and keep the same pace, he would have been close to the top 10.

So no, he doesn't need to get better to be a high quality pitcher for this team. But the fact is, he's 23 and a rookie and is pretty likely to get better as well. Not giving him a starting spot on this team at this point would border on mental retardation.

But he didn't have 100 more innings. I'm sure we all saw BB getting better as well. We don't know which makes him an unknown. He had a decent year, but to say there is no unknown quality about him you're crazy.

 

[tonyballs]

That's what makes him an unknown or do you assume he will get better year after year. Its one year, 18 starts where he had just as many crud games as good one.

Unknown? That's fn ignorant. Ask anybody who Drew fn Smyly is and they're telling you who he is. He came up as a rookie and pitched very well.

Unknown my ass...c'mon.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Unknown? That's fn ignorant. Ask anybody who Drew fn Smyly is and they're telling you who he is. He came up as a rookie and pitched very well.

Unknown my ass...c'mon.

Unknown means you don't have a clue what he'll do next year. We know JV will dominate, we know Porcello will have his usual inconsistencies and post an ERA of ~4.50. We haven't a clue on Smyly which makes him an unknown.

 

[tomdalton22]

No he really isn't. You couldn't ask for a 23 year old with only two years of pro ball and no major league experience to pitch any better than he did.

I didn't say he didn't play well. I said he is an unknown....we don't know if he will repeat what he did this year. A known is a player that has a track record. We know what we have in JV, Scherzer, Fister & Porcello. Porecllo is a good example. Look at his rookie year. He had an era of under 4. If we went by his first year's performance and called him a "known" we would have assumed that we had a good #3. Turns out he is an OK #5. Until Smyly does it for a few years he is an unknown.

 

[Thumb]

I didn't say he didn't play well. I said he is an unknown....we don't know if he will repeat what he did this year. A known is a player that has a track record. We know what we have in JV, Scherzer, Fister & Porcello. Porecllo is a good example. Look at his rookie year. He had an era of under 4. If we went by his first year's performance and called him a "known" we would have assumed that we had a good #3. Turns out he is an OK #5. Until Smyly does it for a few years he is an unknown.

By that logic Ajax is an unknown, so is Avila, Dirks, Boesch, BV, and Berry.

Also where would Scherzer fit, you say we know what we have in him, but because he's never had a season like this....we can't really expect him to repeat if what you're saying is true.

Which it's not, it's more random babble.

 

[Mitchrapp]

By that logic Ajax is an unknown, so is Avila, Dirks, Boesch, BV, and Berry.

Also where would Scherzer fit, you say we know what we have in him, but because he's never had a season like this....we can't really expect him to repeat if what you're saying is true.

Which it's not, it's more random babble.

Before the season Alex was. And Dirks is, even Leyland doesn't see him as a starter though he played well. But next year he could turn into a BB which makes him an unknown.

 

[tomdalton22]

By that logic Ajax is an unknown, so is Avila, Dirks, Boesch, BV, and Berry.

Also where would Scherzer fit, you say we know what we have in him, but because he's never had a season like this....we can't really expect him to repeat if what you're saying is true.

Which it's not, it's more random babble.

The guys you mention that have 2-3 years with the Tigers are pretty much "known" I think we all know that BB sucks...he has only had a small sample size of good baseball. Ajax is likely similar to what we got this year but probably not this good. Avila also has about 3 years so I think we know that we have an average catcher. Dirks is an unknown. Berry is an unknown. I also think we know what we have in Max...an inconsistant #2 who can be great but can be below average.

 

[Thumb]

The guys you mention that have 2-3 years with the Tigers are pretty much "known" I think we all know that BB sucks...he has only had a small sample size of good baseball. Ajax is likely similar to what we got this year but probably not this good. Avila also has about 3 years so I think we know that we have an average catcher. Dirks is an unknown. Berry is an unknown. I also think we know what we have in Max...an inconsistant #2 who can be great but can be below average.

That assessment fails on so many levels.

 

[tomdalton22]

That assessment fails on so many levels.

Please....give me your professional assessment of those players!

 

[tigersofjustice]

Unknown means you don't have a clue what he'll do next year. We know JV will dominate, we know Porcello will have his usual inconsistencies and post an ERA of ~4.50. We haven't a clue on Smyly which makes him an unknown.

Well barring injury, I have a pretty good clue on what to expect from Smyly. So maybe he's just an unknown from your point of view.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Well barring injury, I have a pretty good clue on what to expect from Smyly. So maybe he's just an unknown from your point of view.

Possibly. But if you know within reason what he might do then you're smarter than I.

 

[Thumb]

Please....give me your professional assessment of those players!

Wow where to start...

Oh how about with this:

I also think we know what we have in Max...an inconsistant #2 who can be great but can be below average.

You think Max is a #2, even though he's never pitched like one for a full season, including this year, but you also think he's below average?

Ajax is likely similar to what we got this year but probably not this good.

How remarkably vague. Again, Ajax has has 3 season all remarkably different, yet you don't consider 2013 unknown.

Avila also has about 3 years so I think we know that we have an average catcher.

Again, Avila had a very bad first full year, a very good second full year, and a very average 3rd full year. But you already know exactly what to expect from him.

The guys you mention that have 2-3 years with the Tigers are pretty much "known"

And yet the 3 guys mentioned with 2-3 years have never had similar seasons yet in their careers

If you think Smyly is a huge unknown, then so are the people I listed, and for the same reasons.

But I don't expect you to make sense of this over the Benny Hill music that must go on non-stop in your head every waking hour of the day.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

we may have had wildly inconsistent years from Ajax and Avila but I think one can make a pretty reasonable assumption of the production "range" you're going to get out of them

AJax is about a 265-290 hitter and a plus defender with 20-25 SB (albeit more on a different team) and about 10-15 HR's. He'd prob hit more HR's in a different park but less triples so I'd say his OPS would be pretty much the same right in the .790-.840 range. Unquestionably he's a fringe all star most seasons because his speed and ability to hit to all fields will keep among the league leaders in BABIP most years and has a solild glove.

Avila on the other hand is likely going to play closer to his production of this season rather than last...to me he's a .255ish hitter with plus power for a catcher and pretty solid defense. Even in his horrific rookie season he still had a pretty respectable walk rate so he's always going to be a good OBP guy for his position. I'd guess he may make an all star appearance or two but he'll more likely be a 10-13ish ranked catcher in the league by WAR.

both young players under team control for 3 more seasons so good players to have around.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

as far as scherzer goes I don't see the need to nail him down as a 2...both he and fister have the ability to be solid two's and therefore the top 3 of the rotation is definitely above league average.

From what I've seen of Tom's opinions he's more a glass half empty guy but at least reasonable in his viewpoints.

I disagree with the idea that we've seen enough of Smyly to make a reasonable assumption on his future. Coming out of 2009 (and around the trade deadline from that year) Detroit could've landed Roy Halladay with a Rick Porcello package....three plus years removed from Rick's solid rookie campaign we all would've loved for the tigers to sell on Rick for that kind of price. I like Smyly's upside over that of porcello but his stint in Toledo has to raise a few eyebrows (albeit a relatively small sample size)

 

[tigersofjustice]

ugh

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

ugh

do you purposely go out of the way to be argumentative?

Just wondering.