I just voted.

[Gulo Blue]

How do we deal with low wages? I'm genuinely curious, I hear all the talk about big bad mega corporations and lazy/entitled citizens, but no viable solutions are produced.

I don't think raising the minimum wage is the answer, it forces companies to pay more for the same work, they're either going to cut positions, raise prices, or both in order to compensate. I don't think cutting assistance will work either, it's not going to magically motivate people to get 2nd or 3rd jobs, or fork over a shit ton of money to further their education.

Call it a cultural problem if you want, but it's still a problem we have to deal with and there's no quick fix.

Minimum wage isn't out of line right now. A small boost would be ok, but adjusted for inflation, it's not exceptionally low. However, I do think minimum wage should be adjusted for local cost of living the way government per diem rates are. So I'm ok with cities deciding to change it on their own. Let 'em pick what works for themselves.

 

[Thumb]

Probably not mentioned yet, because I only skimmed through the 18 pages since yesterday, but this is just a cycle. The next POTUS will likely be a republican, and then the house and senate will get shit passed though nearly at will, until the people in the country realize how bad it is, then it will shift again, and the Dems will start to take back parts of congress, the white house, etc. It's just a natural cycle, the part that sucks is things like jobs and the environment are going to suffer in the meantime.

 

[biggunsbob]

You clearly have no idea what hard work is.

Keep sprouting your bullshit..
Go take a hike I worked over 30+ years before my back busted me up.. I went to work
over 500 times with a back that was bad or out or could barely walk so you can go jump in a damn lake about my work ethic.. It is laughable how you think Large corporation who keep getting away with lower pay wages should keep getting breaks. Take a hike..

 

[grandy]

I read something earlier that mentioned this is the 5th time in a row that the 6th year of a two term president had the opposing party controlling both the House and Senate.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I read something earlier that mentioned this is the 5th time in a row that the 6th year of a two term president had the opposing party controlling both the House and Senate.

I think I heard someone on the radio saying that looking back, governments with presidents that oppose both the House & Senate have actually been more productive than govs with split Houses & Senates.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Probably not mentioned yet, because I only skimmed through the 18 pages since yesterday, but this is just a cycle. The next POTUS will likely be a republican, and then the house and senate will get shit passed though nearly at will, until the people in the country realize how bad it is, then it will shift again, and the Dems will start to take back parts of congress, the white house, etc. It's just a natural cycle, the part that sucks is things like jobs and the environment are going to suffer in the meantime.

American way. It sucks but it is what it is..

 

[Sbee]

wtf are you talking about? Who said anything about protecting profits? That has nothing to do with paying the right price for inputs and like it or not, there is a price for labor, just like there is a price for beef, dairy and baked goods or whatever the inputs may be. This "you should pay more because you make a profit" argument you and bigguns is just nonsense.

And raising the minimum wage doesn't fix it - it only drives up other prices and pushes companies to find alternatives to overpriced labor (outsourcing, automation, etc). So fewer people have jobs and the ones that still do are no better off because price increase erode the purchasing power of their increased wages. In the end, it hurts rather than helps. So go ahead and keep thinking your party is the one that cares about the poor when in reality, your policies perpetuate the cycle - but hey, more poor people means more Dem votes, right?

my point is that their labor cost is artificially low since we subsidize their employees through public assistance of some kind.

that's not that hard of a concept to understand

 

[Sbee]

You clearly have no idea what hard work is.

I think you equate hard work with financial sucess which are completely different things. I wokred in fast food when I was 17, it was hard, I waited tables in college, that was hard, I make roughly 15x what I made per hour back then but I don't work nearly as hard.

 

[hailhail]

Minimum wage isn't out of line right now. A small boost would be ok, but adjusted for inflation, it's not exceptionally low. However, I do think minimum wage should be adjusted for local cost of living the way government per diem rates are. So I'm ok with cities deciding to change it on their own. Let 'em pick what works for themselves.

Adjusted for inflation it's not low? Relative to when?

And I agree with you that tying minimum wage to local costs of living makes good economic sense, but allowing local municipalities to decide in each case will just lead to "race to the bottom" economic development practices that don't really benefit any municipality in particular but hurt those that don't play the game.

 

[Spartanmack]

Keep sprouting your bullshit..
Go take a hike I worked over 30+ years before my back busted me up.. I went to work
over 500 times with a back that was bad or out or could barely walk so you can go jump in a damn lake about my work ethic.. It is laughable how you think Large corporation who keep getting away with lower pay wages should keep getting breaks. Take a hike..

What did I say about your work ethic? I never said you were shiftless or lazy. Not sure why you're trying to internalize this, maybe making it personal helps you hold on to your position. Whatever, I don't really care if you're offended by something that's not offensive. But if you think manning the fryer at McDonald's or somewhere else is hard work, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Roofing is hard work, mining is hard work, the guy not leaning on his shovel on the roadside is working hard, mixing morter and stocking scaffolds with brick and block is hard work. The guy opening bags of fries and dropping them in hot grease is NOT working hard - if that offends you, too bad. Go ahead and have another one of your tantrums about something I didn't say - I don't care.

And I also never said large corporations should keep getting tax breaks That's different from saying the corporate tax rate in America should be 0. yet you keep putting words in my mouth so you can tell me to go take a hike. Bravo.

 

[Spartanmack]

I think you equate hard work with financial sucess which are completely different things. I wokred in fast food when I was 17, it was hard, I waited tables in college, that was hard, I make roughly 15x what I made per hour back then but I don't work nearly as hard.

guess again. I had my own lawn service in high school and I spent a summer roofing houses and hauling sheet rock and demolition debris up and down stairs and another summer working as a laborer for a masonry contractor. And I've worked in a warehouse driving a forklift and breaking down 1000 liter steal drums for recycling by hand w/ metal sheers. And I've been a bartender and a waiter and if you think that's hard work, you're a bigger pussy than I thought you were.

 

[hailhail]

What did I say about your work ethic? I never said you were shiftless or lazy. Not sure why you're trying to internalize this, maybe making it personal helps you hold on to your position. Whatever, I don't really care if you're offended by something that's not offensive. But if you think manning the fryer at McDonald's or somewhere else is hard work, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Roofing is hard work, mining is hard work, the guy not leaning on his shovel on the roadside is working hard, mixing morter and stocking scaffolds with brick and block is hard work. The guy opening bags of fries and dropping them in hot grease is NOT working hard - if that offends you, too bad. Go ahead and have another one of your tantrums about something I didn't say - I don't care.

And I also never said large corporations should keep getting tax breaks That's different from saying the corporate tax rate in America should be 0. yet you keep putting words in my mouth so you can tell me to go take a hike. Bravo.

I worked at McDonald's for three different intervals while in college. I found the work to be demeaning, demanding, and, in some ways, higher-pressure than any of the "skilled-labor" office jobs I've had since.

You should probably explain what you mean by "hard work." It's low-skill, but that doesn't make it any less demanding or "hard."

 

[hailhail]

guess again. I had my own lawn service in high school and I spent a summer roofing houses and hauling sheet rock and demolition debris up and down stairs and another summer working as a laborer for a masonry contractor. And I've worked in a warehouse driving a forklift and breaking down 1000 liter steal drums for recycling. And I've been a bartender and a waiter and if you think that's hard work, you're a bigger pussy than I thought you were.

Ahhh this is what you mean by "hard work"? You mean physically demanding?

And it takes a real hard ass to call another on the internet "pussy." Good job.

 

[Spartanmack]

I worked at McDonald's for three different intervals while in college. I found the work to be demeaning, demanding, and, in some ways, higher-pressure than any of the "skilled-labor" office jobs I've had since.

You should probably explain what you mean by "hard work." It's low-skill, but that doesn't make it any less demanding or "hard."

What I mean is, just because you're moving to keep up with the lunch rush, doesn't mean the work is hard. Yes, McDonald's gets busy and there are times when you're flying around. When I was a ski bum, I worked at one of the mid-mountain restaurants to pay rent and get my ski pass - we were constantly moving at peak times (morning prep and the lunch rush), but I never thought it was particularly hard work. Same with bartending and waiting tables - frustrating as hell at times dealing w/ unruly customers and often worse coworkers but not exactly hard work. Slogging 50lbs bags of mortar mix and 5 gallon buckets of water to the mixer and shoveling sand in a humid Chicago heat wave, then hauling it to the bricklayers and keeping them stocked w/ brick and block, then cleaning up after them - that was hard work.

 

[Sbee]

guess again. I had my own lawn service in high school and I spent a summer roofing houses and hauling sheet rock and demolition debris up and down stairs and another summer working as a laborer for a masonry contractor. And I've worked in a warehouse driving a forklift and breaking down 1000 liter steal drums for recycling by hand w/ metal sheers. And I've been a bartender and a waiter and if you think that's hard work, you're a bigger pussy than I thought you were.

Low paying jobs can be hard work, you don't equate high income with hard work though those two can go together. I just hear a lot of right wingers say that people should work harder if they want more money, as if service industry and manual labor workers don't work hard.

as for your chest thumping about how much manual labor you've done, congrats. You're completely missing my point but if your goal is to make yourself feel tougher, more power to you

 

[Spartanmack]

Ahhh this is what you mean by "hard work"? You mean physically demanding?

And it takes a real hard ass to call another on the internet "pussy." Good job.

well, we do live about 650 miles apart so what choice do i have other than the internet?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Adjusted for inflation it's not low? Relative to when?

Anytime before the mid 50's and most of the time after the mid 80's.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I made my bed earlier and I consider that hard work..

 

[Gulo Blue]

What I mean is, just because you're moving to keep up with the lunch rush, doesn't mean the work is hard. Yes, McDonald's gets busy and there are times when you're flying around. When I was a ski bum, I worked at one of the mid-mountain restaurants to pay rent and get my ski pass - we were constantly moving at peak times (morning prep and the lunch rush), but I never thought it was particularly hard work. Same with bartending and waiting tables - frustrating as hell at times dealing w/ unruly customers and often worse coworkers but not exactly hard work. Slogging 50lbs bags of mortar mix and 5 gallon buckets of water to the mixer and shoveling sand in a humid Chicago heat wave, then hauling it to the bricklayers and keeping them stocked w/ brick and block, then cleaning up after them - that was hard work.

I've done physically busy (cash register/grocery bagging) and physically demanding (post hole digging/post setting) jobs. Your cut off for what counts as hard work is BS. They're hard work in different ways. Besides, if that's somehow relevant to payscales, what boulders are they pushing around on Wall St.?

 

[hailhail]

well, we do live about 650 miles apart so what choice do i have other than the internet?

You could refrain from doing so in the first place?