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I just voted.

Only 12% of all voters were under thirty yesterday.. Really depressing if your a democrat.. great news if you lean right..
 
If a significant portion of your workforce is on assistance, that's a form of subsidy. It's cheating the ideas that make capitalism good.

it's a form of subsidy to the worker, not corporations. Wages for low skilled jobs aren't low because of food stamps, welfare and unemployment insurance and if they were that would be an argument for getting rid of those programs, not increasing them. And I've said time and again on this forum, I'm more against corporate welfare than social welfare. An employer's responsibility is not to pay whatever it costs to live in a society - their responsibility is to pay people what their labor is worth.
 
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This is just false. Smoking marijuana is so much worse for you than tobacco so if smoking tobacco in moderation is bad for your health, how can you be foolish enough to think smoking marijuana in moderation is not?



How many of those arrests are for people who were actually dealing vs. simple possession? are the numbers for dealing similar across racial groups? I bet they're not even close. I'm sure you can put some kinda spin on that to show that minorities are being kept poor by the Republicans and therefore have no choice but to deal drugs so you can keep your racism narrative alive but the reality is, drugs and drug related crime including marijuana are a bigger problem for the poor than for middle class and the wealthy regardless of what usage numbers say.



This is unbelievable. Are you saying you're tax dollars are subsidizing McDonald's because they don't overpay their employees? That is beyond ridiculous. Wages are determined by the value of the work, not by what it costs to live in a given society. Every economy has low skill jobs like that - are you saying we should force employers to pay enough so that people can make a career of being a cashier or scooping ice cream? It's amazing to me that you can't see how these policies destroyed manufacturing jobs in this country, now you want low skill employers to foot the bill? What do you think is going to happen to those jobs? Shocking.

yes, paying wages cuts into profits, shocking, just one of those unfortunate expenses of running a multi billion dollar corporation, just like raw materials, taxes, real estate costs, etc. If you want to get rich on a tax free enterprise with no product, start a mega church.

the average age of a fast food worker is 29 and most are on some form of public assistance. when full time employees can't make enough money to live off of, they take the rest from taxpayers in the form of housing assistance, free lunches at school, day care, medicaid. this is the big government welfare that you conservatives detest.

if we raised the minimum wage and forced profitable companies to pay their employees enough to eat and live, we wouldn't have to pay the bill in the form of subsidies.

I'm sick of supplementing the labor costs of highly profitable companies
 
It's ridicules not to pay hamburger flippers at McDonalds a livable wage.. Those fry workers work their ass off for that billion dollar corporation... So yeah they can pay workers more. not everyone is smart enough to go to college you nitwit... It amazes me how you fail to see that corporation tax breaks are at a record High.. But you just want more for Big Business.. Sweet.. I guess tax breaks are just not enough for you..

you sound like someone who is not smart enough to go to college when you say things like companies can afford to pay more so they should. How is my position, which I will again state I'm for people getting paid what their labor is worth, "wanting more for big business?"

And again, I'm against corporate welfare so you can stop putting words in my mouth about corporate tax breaks. I'm for a primarily consumption based tax system - 0% tax rate on corporations and a flat tax on individuals and scrapping or greatly reducing all the deductions and exemptions.
 
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Only 12% of all voters were under thirty yesterday.. Really depressing if your a democrat.. great news if you lean right..

And the percentage of them who voted republican increased from 38 percent in 2012 to 43 percent in the House elections.
 
It's ridicules not to pay hamburger flippers at McDonalds a livable wage.. Those fry workers work their ass off for that billion dollar corporation...

Just for the sake of calling Apples apples, for the most part they really don't.

There are two McDonald's that I go to, most of the time I get either egg whites, or I get the grilled chicken wrapped in lettuce.

The same franchisee is the owner operator of both of them, he's an Asian immigrant. I suspect he works his ass off running his businesses.

I approached him once with a benefit package for his employees that would be free to him. He thanked me, told me he had been approached before, talk to his employees about it, and none of them was interested.

McDonald's Corporation doesn't pay the wages of most of the people who work at McDonald's. The small business operator/franchisee does.

Again, just to be sure that were actually calling apples apples.
 
It's ridicules not to pay hamburger flippers at McDonalds a livable wage.. Those fry workers work their ass off for that billion dollar corporation...

Just for the sake of calling Apples apples, for the most part they really don't.

There are two McDonald's that I go to, most of the time I get either egg whites, or I get the grilled chicken wrapped in lettuce.

The same franchisee is the owner operator of both of them, he's an Asian immigrant. I suspect he works his ass off running his businesses.

I approached him once with a benefit package for his employees that would be free to him. He thanked me, told me he had been approached before, talk to his employees about it, and none of them was interested.

McDonald's Corporation doesn't pay the wages of most of the people who work at McDonald's. The small business operator/franchisee does.

Again, just to be sure that were actually calling apples apples.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot one of the most important things-when I approached him, I asked him "you're the owner, right?" His answer? "Really, the bank is."
 
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Only 12% of all voters were under thirty yesterday.. Really depressing if your a democrat.. great news if you lean right..

yeah. and more old farts voted than usual. tale of the election:
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Dems really failed miserably to get out the vote. maybe that was by design... there was some horse-trading behind the scenes or something. one can only hope.



it's a form of subsidy to the worker, not corporations. Wages for low skilled jobs aren't low because of food stamps, welfare and unemployment insurance and if they were that would be an argument for getting rid of those programs, not increasing them. And I've said time and again on this forum, I'm more against corporate welfare than social welfare. An employer's responsibility is not to pay whatever it costs to live in a society - their responsibility is to pay people what their labor is worth.

you continue to crib notes from your econ 101 book, even though the models therein bear no resemblence to the real world.
 
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Just for the sake of calling Apples apples, for the most part they really don't.

...

McDonald's Corporation doesn't pay the wages of most of the people who work at McDonald's. The small business operator/franchisee does.

Again, just to be sure that were actually calling apples apples.

that's technically true, and has been used by franchisors for a while, although:
That may be true of some franchise models. In the case of McDonald?s, though, advocates argue that the fast-food giant?s franchise agreement and actual business practices are so restrictive and pervasive that franchise owners have little latitude with their staffing arrangements and no choice but to keep labor costs as low as possible. In a somewhat unusual arrangement, McDonald?s even controls its own real estate and extracts exorbitant rents from its franchisees, who are on the hook for expensive renovations. All that has driven profit margins down to the point where former McDonald?s executive Richard Adams, now a consultant, estimates that about a quarter of franchises don?t even generate positive cash flow for the owner. That doesn?t give them many options.
...and because of this, the indirect control, the NLRB recently held McDonald's was jointly an employer along with the franchisee.

COMMUNISTS!
 
How do we deal with low wages? I'm genuinely curious, I hear all the talk about big bad mega corporations and lazy/entitled citizens, but no viable solutions are produced.

I don't think raising the minimum wage is the answer, it forces companies to pay more for the same work, they're either going to cut positions, raise prices, or both in order to compensate. I don't think cutting assistance will work either, it's not going to magically motivate people to get 2nd or 3rd jobs, or fork over a shit ton of money to further their education.

Call it a cultural problem if you want, but it's still a problem we have to deal with and there's no quick fix.
 
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that's technically true, and has been used by franchisors for a while, although:

[/COLOR]
[/INDENT]...and because of this, the indirect control, the NLRB recently held McDonald's was jointly an employer along with the franchisee.

COMMUNISTS!

Learn something every day. Thanks.

Did you read my edit to the post you copied? I forgot what I considered is an important point.
 
Yesterday was a old foggy vote.. Young people stayed away in droves like they always do in midterms..

I fall under the "young voter" category and admittedly did not vote, never even considered it, I am disgruntled yet apathetic.
 
How do we deal with low wages? I'm genuinely curious, I hear all the talk about big bad mega corporations and lazy/entitled citizens, but no viable solutions are produced.

I don't think raising the minimum wage is the answer, it forces companies to pay more for the same work, they're either going to cut positions, raise prices, or both in order to compensate. I don't think cutting assistance will work either, it's not going to magically motivate people to get 2nd or 3rd jobs, or fork over a shit ton of money to further their education.

Call it a cultural problem if you want, but it's still a problem we have to deal with and there's no quick fix.

the minimum wage thing is such a big problem these days because you have nation-wide companies as big as Walmart, McDonalds, etc. that have the market power to actually drive wages down, not to mention engaging in nefarious practices like wage theft. they're so big they're not subject to the usual market pressure, so imposing a higher min wage won't actually cause them to fire people, contrary to what half-wit economist wannabes like spartanhack will claim.

you can even make exceptions for small business or the sorts of seasonal labor that would suffer from higher minimum wages; make the standard applicable to only retailers over so many sq. feet, or such revenues per year, etc. they can and should pay it. they did for decades prior to the 80's, and were profitable during that time. maybe even more so, since their workers could now afford to eat/shop in their own stores...
 
I fall under the "young voter" category and admittedly did not vote, never even considered it, I am disgruntled yet apathetic.

I am curious why.

Was it too much of a pain to register?

If you had gotten like an email reminder or something, along with instructions on where to go, would you have?

Or were there no circumstances, short of immediate personal gain, that would've gotten you to the polling place? in the old days, the neighborhood political party guys & ward committeemen would buy everyone a round if they went down and voted. they would also beat people who voted the wrong way, or refused to vote, if they came across them. carrot or the stick, I guess.

It was pretty easy to register to vote in Chicago, and I got form in the mail instructing me where my polling place was, and also where I could go to vote early. It was relatively easy to go online and get the same information... took a few minutes.

It took a little longer (15 -20 minutes) to find information about who & what was on the ballot, and read some brief commentary about all of that. some organizations provide this information, with various degrees of attempting to persuade you to vote one way or the other.

for judicial elections, I'd recommend checking your local bar association; they typically provide more-or-less objective descriptions of judges along with recommendations based on their lawyers' interactions with them.
 
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How do we deal with low wages? I'm genuinely curious, I hear all the talk about big bad mega corporations and lazy/entitled citizens, but no viable solutions are produced.

I don't think raising the minimum wage is the answer, it forces companies to pay more for the same work, they're either going to cut positions, raise prices, or both in order to compensate. I don't think cutting assistance will work either, it's not going to magically motivate people to get 2nd or 3rd jobs, or fork over a shit ton of money to further their education.

Call it a cultural problem if you want, but it's still a problem we have to deal with and there's no quick fix.

Who are you saying is lazy/entitled? the low wage worker at walmart or mcdonalds? i just want clarification here

also, yes wages cut into profits so they either make less profit or raise prices to the true cost of their goods and services. labor cost is one of those unfortunate aspects of running a business
 
I also fall into the young voter category, I did vote yesterday even though I felt my vote was generally meaningless. I didn't do nearly as much research as I could have mainly because I just don't care all that much. I actually considered not going because I didn't read enough about the candidates.

Categories like local judges and UM and MCC board members, I was basically picking random people. I concerned myself more with national races than local races, which should probably be the other way around since shit actually gets done on the local level.
 
yes, paying wages cuts into profits, shocking, just one of those unfortunate expenses of running a multi billion dollar corporation, just like raw materials, taxes, real estate costs, etc. If you want to get rich on a tax free enterprise with no product, start a mega church.

wtf are you talking about? Who said anything about protecting profits? That has nothing to do with paying the right price for inputs and like it or not, there is a price for labor, just like there is a price for beef, dairy and baked goods or whatever the inputs may be. This "you should pay more because you make a profit" argument you and bigguns is just nonsense.

And raising the minimum wage doesn't fix it - it only drives up other prices and pushes companies to find alternatives to overpriced labor (outsourcing, automation, etc). So fewer people have jobs and the ones that still do are no better off because price increase erode the purchasing power of their increased wages. In the end, it hurts rather than helps. So go ahead and keep thinking your party is the one that cares about the poor when in reality, your policies perpetuate the cycle - but hey, more poor people means more Dem votes, right?
 
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Who are you saying is lazy/entitled? the low wage worker at walmart or mcdonalds? i just want clarification here

also, yes wages cut into profits so they either make less profit or raise prices to the true cost of their goods and services. labor cost is one of those unfortunate aspects of running a business

It was a jab at people who throw around the lazy/entitled tag way too much. I have more faith in the general public than that, because I personally find sitting at home all day doing nothing to be fucking boring.

I also realize that wages are part of running a business, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of corporations. They aren't willingly going to cut their profits to give their employees more money, they will find a way to compensate.
 
it's a form of subsidy to the worker, not corporations. Wages for low skilled jobs aren't low because of food stamps, welfare and unemployment insurance and if they were that would be an argument for getting rid of those programs, not increasing them. And I've said time and again on this forum, I'm more against corporate welfare than social welfare. An employer's responsibility is not to pay whatever it costs to live in a society - their responsibility is to pay people what their labor is worth.

The possibility to receive assistance and work up to a certain income level creates an incentive if you are near the cut off, to stay under it. That puts market pressure pointing in the wrong direction on the wages of people close to that situation, effectively subsidizing employers and causing wages to stagnate near that threshold.
 
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