Ichiro 4000 hits

[Mitchrapp]

Could have went to Giambi 1.137. I don't think we knew at the time he was on Peds. Arod went 3rd, maybe the writers knew something at that time.

 

[Thumb]

Giambi had a higher OPS because of his power numbers, but Ichiro was then; what Mike Trout was last year. A wizard in the field, a thief on the bases, had the highest .Avg in the league and had 254 hits, the most since 1930. Plus he was a rookie. He did everything you could have asked of him except hit for power.

So he didn't have the highest OPS...big deal, since when does highest OPS = MVP?

 

[tomdalton22]

Giambi had a higher OPS because of his power numbers, but Ichiro was then; what Mike Trout was last year. A wizard in the field, a thief on the bases, had the highest .Avg in the league and had 254 hits, the most since 1930. Plus he was a rookie. He did everything you could have asked of him except hit for power.

So he didn't have the highest OPS...big deal, since when does highest OPS = MVP?

well....most Tiger fans who wanted Miggy over Trout last year argued his power numbers and hitting were more important than Trout's SB and defensive play.

 

[tonyballs]

really??? I always thought he was over rated!

Overated players dont reach 4000 hits....

 

[tomdalton22]

Overated players dont reach 4000 hits....

leadoff hitters who have a career OBP of .362 are not first ballot HOF players. Corner OF with a career OPS of .782 are not first ballot HOF players. Many think that is what he is. He shouldn't be. That is why I think he is over rated. I think he was a good slap hitter and good defensive player. Probably a HOF'er because of the hits he accumulated.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Giambi had a higher OPS because of his power numbers, but Ichiro was then; what Mike Trout was last year. A wizard in the field, a thief on the bases, had the highest .Avg in the league and had 254 hits, the most since 1930. Plus he was a rookie. He did everything you could have asked of him except hit for power.

So he didn't have the highest OPS...big deal, since when does highest OPS = MVP?

Check out Trouts numbers last year to Ichiro's rookie year. Its not as close as you might think. You mention average, he batted .250 but Mr. Roid went .342 or something like that.

He won because he was new. That's why he never finished better than 7th in MVP afterwards, even when he had his career year 3 years later. No doubt he was talented but it wasn't an MVP type year.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Overated players dont reach 4000 hits....

You're correct, Cobb & Rose. I guess we count Yu Darvish's 88 wins in Japan.

 

[tomdalton22]

You're correct, Cobb & Rose. I guess we count Yu Darvish's 88 wins in Japan.

There is also a new HR champ.....Sadaharu Oh is the new leader with 868 HRs!

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'm not dismissing what Ichiro did here or there, I wish he was here at age 19 but Japan baseball is not MLB.

 

[tomdalton22]

I'm not dismissing what Ichiro did here or there, I wish he was here at age 19 but Japan baseball is not MLB.

I'm with you. He was a very good baseball player. I just think he is very over rated. Many say he is a first ballot HOF'er. Compare him to other HOF corner OF'ers and he comes up short in most categories except for base hits.

 

[tomdalton22]

What was Verlanders OPS in 2010?

not good but Scherzer's is 1.000 this year!

 

[byco42]

If Ichiro is overrated, so is Pete Rose. And Rose cannot hold Ichiro's chopsticks, as good as Rose was.

 

[Rebbiv]

If Ichiro is overrated, so is Pete Rose. And Rose cannot hold Ichiro's chopsticks, as good as Rose was.

Ages 27-38

Rose 1909 G 8819 PA .318 BAVG .393 OBP .440 SLG .833 OPS 101.32 RC/650

Suzuki 1911 G 8723 PA .322 BAVG .365 OBP .419 SLG .784 OPS 96.43 RC/650


Both averaged 159 Games from age 27-38. And really, that is part of the point. Suzuki, Rose, and Ripken all averaged above 98% of games played during ages 27-37. This helps with COUNTING (Hits, Runs, RBIS, HRs, SBs, etc) stats. Rate stats adjust over time (BAVG, OPS, wOBA, etc) and diminish with age. From age 27-38, Al Kaline only averaged 124 games per year. His counting stats suffered, but his rate stats still fa exceed Suzuki and Rose.


League Averages

Rose 27 (1968) = .243 BAVG .300 OBP .341 SLG .641 OPS

Rose 32 (1973) = .254 BAVG .322 OBP .376 SLG .698 OPS

Rose 38 (1979) = .261 BAVG .325 OBP .385 SLG .710 OPS


Suzuki 27 (2001) = .267 BAVG .334 OBP .428 SLG .762 OPS

Suzuki 32 (2006) = .275 BAVG .339 OBP .437 SLG .776 OPS

Suzuki 38 (2012) = .255 BAVG .320 OBP .411 SLG .731 OPS


Rose's OPS was consistently 100 points over league average. Ichiro's was consistently within 50 points of league average. Al Kaline's was about 150 points above league average.

If Al Kaline is a first time ballot HoFer, then I have a problem with Ichiro being one. He is certainly a HoFer, just not on the first ballot.

 

[tonyballs]

You're correct, Cobb & Rose. I guess we count Yu Darvish's 88 wins in Japan.

Are you denying the talent?

 

[tonyballs]

leadoff hitters who have a career OBP of .362 are not first ballot HOF players. Corner OF with a career OPS of .782 are not first ballot HOF players. Many think that is what he is. He shouldn't be. That is why I think he is over rated. I think he was a good slap hitter and good defensive player. Probably a HOF'er because of the hits he accumulated.

But he's a HOFer though, right? So how on Earth is someone overrated if they make the HOF? That makes zero sense.....

4000 hits is astronomical btw...

 

[tomdalton22]

But he's a HOFer though, right? So how on Earth is someone overrated if they make the HOF? That makes zero sense.....

4000 hits is astronomical btw...

I think he is a borderline HOF player (see Rebiv's post above to compare him to some others). Many people say he is a first ballot HOF'er....I think they are over rating him

 

[Mitchrapp]

Are you denying the talent?

Of course not. I just hope he gets judged solely on what he did at the ML level, not Japan.

 

[michiganalex]

I'm with you. He was a very good baseball player. I just think he is very over rated. Many say he is a first ballot HOF'er. Compare him to other HOF corner OF'ers and he comes up short in most categories except for base hits.

more insanity from this guy

 

[michiganalex]

I think he is a borderline HOF player (see Rebiv's post above to compare him to some others). Many people say he is a first ballot HOF'er....I think they are over rating him

and again u are in the minority

 

[motownwebguy]

Everybody has a different definition on what comprises a great player.

OBP and overall Defense are the first two stats I look at. Then OPS - then SLG - then BA.

People seem to forget what kind of team Ichiro played on. Much like Tony Gwynn getting pitched around constantly, what kind of career would Ichiro and Gwynn amassed, had they played on perennial contenders and pitchers forced to feed their hitting zones more often?