It's good to be an MSU fan right now

[Spartanmack]

Playing well in a spring game and keeping up with Oregon and Ohio St. WR's are two different things. That secondary, until it proves itself, is a massive question mark.

National title in football?? Eh........defense played 2 good offenses and were torched 2 times. Defense needs to be A LOT better in '15 to even contend for a Big Ten title. Without Narduzzi and Waynes.

Not likely.

Are they still a top 15 team? Absolutely. But with all the SEC love that goes around during the season......getting into the top 4 at the end of the year will require a perfect record in 2015......which won't happen.

At the risk of being labeled a hater or at least, not a true fan, the defense actually got torched 3 times last season. Baylor racked up 583 yards of total offense (603 against the secondary) and 41 points. And those numbers are mostly through 3 quarters because they got very conservative with the 3 score lead. It's easy to overlook that game because we won and the defense made a couple big plays down the stretch but overall the defense, particularly the secondary got exposed for a 3rd time in that game.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

At the risk of being labeled a hater or at least, not a true fan, the defense actually got torched 3 times last season. Baylor racked up 583 yards of total offense (603 against the secondary) and 41 points. And those numbers are mostly through 3 quarters because they got very conservative with the 3 score lead. It's easy to overlook that game because we won and the defense made a couple big plays down the stretch but overall the defense, particularly the secondary got exposed for a 3rd time in that game.

That is correct. Overlooked Baylor because of the W.

 

[Sbee]

That is correct. Overlooked Baylor because of the W.

baylor scores a lot of points and gains a lot of yards, crazy as it is we held them under their season average in terms of yardage. they did have a few trick plays that caught us off guard, the WR option and fat guy pass but we were clueless in the first half. DB's are going to be a concern, the one weak spot on the defense. I like Cox at corner, i keep hearing a lot of good things about Arjen Calhoun at the other corner, it sounds like Hicks may be far down on the depth chart, behind edmondson and copeland. i think our front 4 will be crazy good with Calhoun, Mcdowell, Thomas, and Cooper plus a good red shirt freshman class. hopefully the pass rush is good enough to mask the inexperience at corner, our safteys are really, really good, Nicholson is a freak.

 

[Spartanmack]

They averaged 581 yards of offense last year so their Cotton Bowl total (583) was right inline. We did hold them well below their average in rushing yards (-20 vs. 215.5) but that's a pyrrhic victory as they absolutely torched our secondary. I agree that the front 4 should be very good and I expect them to dominate just about everyone as they may only face one real test this year in OSU - maybe Oregon but I don't think their line is on nearly the same level as the buckeyes' (we got through the line plenty but Marriota was just too fast and slippery). It will be interesting to see if they fare any better against OSU this year but there's a good chance we'll have to score a shitload of points to win that game.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

When we play teams that put the ball down the field we need to also. Finally after nearly 3 quarters we started going down the field against baylor. I complain about this year in and out. With our offense last year its tough to see merely by the yards we racked up that we weren't nearly as aggressive as we should have been in our play calls. Also, getting big leads and then playing "to hold on" when we are up 2 tds with a quarter to go. Im not expecting a great defense like we had 2 years ago so if we are playing a team like Oregon and Baylor that are tough to stop you've got to be aggressive on the offensive side as well.

 

[Spartanmack]

When we play teams that put the ball down the field we need to also. Finally after nearly 3 quarters we started going down the field against baylor. I complain about this year in and out. With our offense last year its tough to see merely by the yards we racked up that we weren't nearly as aggressive as we should have been in our play calls. Also, getting big leads and then playing "to hold on" when we are up 2 tds with a quarter to go. Im not expecting a great defense like we had 2 years ago so if we are playing a team like Oregon and Baylor that are tough to stop you've got to be aggressive on the offensive side as well.

I don't agree - if you're getting 7 yards a carry, all you need to do is throw the ball enough to keep that going. Maybe I'm too old school but I love the power running game. I think the only time you need to air it out is when you have the players to do it. But that's the direction the game is going. Nothing wrong with a little balance I guess, I just want to see defenses get worn out and demoralized with a heaping helping of smash mouth football.

 

[LuciousGameWinner]

I don't agree - if you're getting 7 yards a carry, all you need to do is throw the ball enough to keep that going. Maybe I'm too old school but I love the power running game. I think the only time you need to air it out is when you have the players to do it. But that's the direction the game is going. Nothing wrong with a little balance I guess, I just want to see defenses get worn out and demoralized with a heaping helping of smash mouth football.

I'm with you on this one. The best way to frustrate an Oregon/Baylor team is to eat up time on the offensive end. Keeps your defense fresh at the same time. In the Baylor game the defense was out there way too much. I know we have Cook, but I'd love to see London and Scott both get 700+ yards this year (assuming they are the two main guys carrying the ball).

 

[Spartan23MSU]

I don't agree - if you're getting 7 yards a carry, all you need to do is throw the ball enough to keep that going. Maybe I'm too old school but I love the power running game. I think the only time you need to air it out is when you have the players to do it. But that's the direction the game is going. Nothing wrong with a little balance I guess, I just want to see defenses get worn out and demoralized with a heaping helping of smash mouth football.

The problem is there are times we cant run and we are still throwing 7-8 yards. That's an easy read. If you thought we played really efficient in the first 3 quarters in the baylor game then im not sure what to say. Once they hthought we couldnt put a ball down the field we were struggling. A team that is a threat to lippet 40 yards established early gets then benfit of big runs the rest of the game. The threat of a deep pass early would have avoided clawing back in the baylor game. We are a running team and conference so ill agree that is our foundation. Dont get me wrong its b10 smash mouth foootball. I hate to lose williams this year i really thought he had some good things to offer this year. My phone is slow so im not correcting some parts of this.

 

[Spartanmack]

The problem is there are times we cant run and we are still throwing 7-8 yards. That's an easy read. If you thought we played really efficient in the first 3 quarters in the baylor game then im not sure what to say. Once they hthought we couldnt put a ball down the field we were struggling. A team that is a threat to lippet 40 yards established early gets then benfit of big runs the rest of the game. The threat of a deep pass early would have avoided clawing back in the baylor game. We are a running team and conference so ill agree that is our foundation. Dont get me wrong its b10 smash mouth foootball. I hate to lose williams this year i really thought he had some good things to offer this year. My phone is slow so im not correcting some parts of this.

I'm not saying you don't need to be able to throw the ball down field - there are definitely times when you have to abandon the run completely. I just think the need is dictated more by the situation (clock and deficit) than how the other team's offense is putting points on the board. Maybe I misinterpreted your earlier post. I thought you were saying we need to be able to throw the ball deep against passing teams. Were you saying that we need to be able to score quickly if we find ourselves down a few scores like we were in the Cotton Bowl? Remember the game at Nebraska in 2011 where we tried to throw the ball downfield all day? We'd had a lot of success running and in the intermediate pass game up to that point in the season - it was so frustrating to watch. And even more frustrating to hear Cousins explain that they were trying to get pass interference calls by throwing down field into double coverage. I hated watching that game.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

I'm not saying you don't need to be able to throw the ball down field - there are definitely times when you have to abandon the run completely. I just think the need is dictated more by the situation (clock and deficit) than how the other team's offense is putting points on the board. Maybe I misinterpreted your earlier post. I thought you were saying we need to be able to throw the ball deep against passing teams and not so much that we need to be able to score quickly if we find ourselves down a few scores like we were in the Cotton Bowl. Remember the game at Nebraska in 2011 where we tried to throw the ball downfield all day? We'd had a lot of success running and in the intermediate pass game up to that point in the season - it was so frustrating to watch. And even more frustrating to hear Cousins explain that they were trying to get pass interference calls by throwing down field into double coverage. I hated watching that game.

I remember the Nebraska game very well in 2011 and it was uber frustrating, I expected that in 1993 not then. Also, against OSU this past year we didnt even pass that much (deep) and we couldn't stop their run. That draw from Cardale (sp?) got 10 yards on every play we could have chucked the ball and it wouldnt have mattered, THEY SMASHED US WITH THE RUN! We put up points but last years OSU team was pretty crazy, we cant ever expect to be that dominant on a nearly pure run game as OSU last year,we knew it was coming and couldnt stop it!! It would have been fun to see how Baylor matched up with last years OSU team. Last years OSU game was baffling... big tangents here but my concern is losing Narduzzi + Waynes AND TL. I said earlier I would have rather lost Calhoun than Waynes.At one point Calhoun was a sure loss and Waynes was a senior playing for a NC with MSU. Waynes is a painful loss but he was ready so I wont question it.

This years expectations for Scott are overwheming, we cant expect Scott to carry a mammoth load in the run game but many Spartans think he will be the answer right out of the gate (not likely). I thought we could pull tackles and run a "semi option" with williams but thats out the window at this point for next season, lots of question marks really.

TL was also a huge loss and nobody talks about the magnitude of that loss. I think Burbridge will fill in but he wont have the same ability to separate as TL, I liked TL more than Plaxico Burress, very underrated. Losing Langford is almost as bad as losing Waynes (maybe more), He was a gift. I will once again side with you that this is B10 football and we arent a pack 10 team expecting to win off the pass (not your exact words but confirming we are a running team and conference).I do love to see us establish the passing game early. Who is the guy Cook can go to this year though? Cook is cock sure and im not worried about him but concerned about his "go to " options.

I think we will be fine in hoops but im more concerned with football. I expect we beat Oregon but OSU is going to be a TALL order. OSU is stacked again next year. Ill say our biggest obstacle is losing Narduzzi. Fact is it really hurts and Spartan fans need to be ready if there is a significant deficiency because of the Narduzzi factor.

 

[Sbee]

Baylor game was a good case and point, we didn't dominate them on defense but we did make them one dimensional and that won the game for us. If baylor could have run it in the 4th there's no way we score 21.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Baylor game was a good case and point, we didn't dominate them on defense but we did make them one dimensional and that won the game for us. If baylor could have run it in the 4th there's no way we score 21.

I get that.......but for 45 min......that's all they needed.

The defense wasn't great last year. Good is the best I could give them.......and that's stretching it just a bit.

They have to get a lot better in the back end to contend for anything this year.

 

[Spartanmack]

I remember the Nebraska game very well in 2011 and it was uber frustrating, I expected that in 1993 not then. Also, against OSU this past year we didnt even pass that much (deep) and we couldn't stop their run. That draw from Cardale (sp?) got 10 yards on every play we could have chucked the ball and it wouldnt have mattered, THEY SMASHED US WITH THE RUN! We put up points but last years OSU team was pretty crazy, we cant ever expect to be that dominant on a nearly pure run game as OSU last year,we knew it was coming and couldnt stop it!! It would have been fun to see how Baylor matched up with last years OSU team. Last years OSU game was baffling... big tangents here but my concern is losing Narduzzi + Waynes AND TL. I said earlier I would have rather lost Calhoun than Waynes.At one point Calhoun was a sure loss and Waynes was a senior playing for a NC with MSU. Waynes is a painful loss but he was ready so I wont question it.

This years expectations for Scott are overwheming, we cant expect Scott to carry a mammoth load in the run game but many Spartans think he will be the answer right out of the gate (not likely). I thought we could pull tackles and run a "semi option" with williams but thats out the window at this point for next season, lots of question marks really.

TL was also a huge loss and nobody talks about the magnitude of that loss. I think Burbridge will fill in but he wont have the same ability to separate as TL, I liked TL more than Plaxico Burress, very underrated. Losing Langford is almost as bad as losing Waynes (maybe more), He was a gift. I will once again side with you that this is B10 football and we arent a pack 10 team expecting to win off the pass (not your exact words but confirming we are a running team and conference).I do love to see us establish the passing game early. Who is the guy Cook can go to this year though? Cook is cock sure and im not worried about him but concerned about his "go to " options.

I think we will be fine in hoops but im more concerned with football. I expect we beat Oregon but OSU is going to be a TALL order. OSU is stacked again next year. Ill say our biggest obstacle is losing Narduzzi. Fact is it really hurts and Spartan fans need to be ready if there is a significant deficiency because of the Narduzzi factor.

I agree with a lot of this - to me, Lippett may be the most impactful loss from last year. If it's not him, then I think it's Langford. I like Wayans but I'm not as high on him as everyone else - big loss, for sure but I don't think he was nearly as impactful as Dennard (not even close in my mind). But all that aside, it's just common sense - the secondary got torched by every good offense we played. Does it really matter that much that our best player is gone from there? Which W turns into an L on last year's schedule without Wayans? That may be an over-simplification but while he may be the best NFL prospect, I don't think he was the most impactful player we lost from last year's roster.

Cook is not an elite QB but he is solid and has ice water in his veins - shook off 2 bad plays late in the Cotton Bowl to make or at least contribute to some big ones to win the game. If we have a Lippet or Cunningham-type guy step in this year I think the passing game will be more than adequate. Hopefully LJ Scott is our next Cedric Irvin - we'll see but you're right, that is a lot to expect from a freshman.

The game is changing and even the B1G is evolving with it, but I still love the power running game. It may not ever be 80% of our offense or whatever but I think it still has a place in the game. Alabama proved that by winning multiple championships hammering the ball down people's throats. I already mentioned that Nebraska game but a couple others still haunt me - ND in Spartan Stadium when JLS stopped giving Caulcrick the ball and instead tried to pass or run outside w/ Ringer - don't think we got a 1st down in the last 20 minutes and Jehuu had been getting almost 14 ypc. I still remember the press conference when asked why he stopped pounding the ball with Caulcrick, "We didn't think we could run up the middle anymore" - didn't think? Why, because you were only getting 13.8 yards per carry inside? How about you at least f'n try! Drove me nuts. And the other was Bielema blowing the Rose Bowl against TCU by not pounding the ball w/ John Clay all night. They had an average 60lbs size advantage across the line and Clay got 3 carries for 27 yards in the 2nd half - he was killing them, but genius Bielema gave Ball most of the carries outside against the fastest defense in the country. Alvarez should have fired him in the locker room in Pasadena.

 

[johnny2x2x]

I agree with a lot of this - to me, Lippett may be the most impactful loss from last year. If it's not him, then I think it's Langford. I like Wayans but I'm not as high on him as everyone else - big loss, for sure but I don't think he was nearly as impactful as Dennard (not even close in my mind). But all that aside, it's just common sense - the secondary got torched by every good offense we played. Does it really matter that much that our best player is gone from there? Which W turns into an L on last year's schedule without Wayans?

Cook is not an elite QB but he is solid and has ice water in his veins - shook off 2 bad plays late in the Cotton Bowl to make or at least contribute to some big ones to win the game. If we have a Lippet or Cunningham-type guy step in this year I think the passing game will be more than adequate. Hopefully LJ Scott is our next Cedric Irvin - we'll see but you're right, that is a lot to expect from a freshman.

The game is changing and even the B1G is evolving with it, but I still love the power running game. It may not ever be 80% of our offense or whatever but I think it still has a place in the game. Alabama proved that by winning multiple championships hammering the ball down people's throats. I already mentioned that Nebraska game but a couple others still haunt me - ND in Spartan Stadium when JLS stopped giving Caulcrick the ball and instead tried to pass or run outside w/ Ringer instead - don't think we got a 1st down in the last 20 minutes and Jehuu had been getting almost 14 ypc. I still remember the press conference when asked why he stopped pounding Caulcrick, "We didn't think we could run up the middle anymore" - didn't think? Why, because you were only getting 13.8 yards per carry? How about you at least f'n try! Drove me nuts. And the other was Bielema blowing the Rose Bowl against TCU by not pounding the ball w/ John Clay all night. They had an average 60lbs size advantage across the line and Clay got 3 carries for 27 yards in the 2nd half - he was killing them, but genius Bielema gave Ball most of the carries outside against the fastest defense in the country. Alvarez should have fired him in the locker room in Pasadena.

Conner Cook has been elite in the last 2 seasons. He's passed for 6000 yards with 46 TDs and 14 INTs in the last 2 years while leading his team to a 24-3 record. He did this leading a balanced offense that ran the ball very well. Next Spring he's a strong favorite to become the 1st Big Ten QB in over 20 years to get picked in the 1st round.

 

[Spartanmack]

Conner Cook has been elite in the last 2 seasons. He's passed for 6000 yards with 46 TDs and 14 INTs in the last 2 years while leading his team to a 24-3 record. He did this leading a balanced offense that ran the ball very well. Next Spring he's a strong favorite to become the 1st Big Ten QB in over 20 years to get picked in the 1st round.

Yeah, I remember all the 1st round draft pick talk early last year because some writer talked him up but he was pretty inconsistent and that talk died down rather quickly. Personally, I think he's very good and I'm glad he's back but I don't think he's elite. Maybe this year he will achieve elite status. I hope so, but if not, he can still have another very good year and help the team tremendously. I really don't care where he get's drafted - he doesn't have to be a first round pick or be "elite" to compete for the B1G title and the playoffs. He and the team can have a great year regardless of where he ends up getting drafted.

 

[Mitchrapp]

It's about time. When I was growing up the Spartan's were a laughing stock.

 

[johnny2x2x]

It's about time. When I was growing up the Spartan's were a laughing stock.

Yeah, almost as much of a laughingstock as Michigan currently is.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yeah, almost as much of a laughingstock as Michigan currently is.

That wasn't what I meant..just pointing out that they had decades of bad play. As a whole, the B1G and Michigan are better off when teams like MSU are good.

But if you're referring to 6-7 seasons of failure equates to 2 decades I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[Sbee]

Yeah, almost as much of a laughingstock as Michigan currently is.

Not quite, we were bad but we knew it.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Not quite, we were bad but we knew it.

Yeah, nothing is more sad than being a laughingstock and not knowing it.