Jordan Zimmerman

[kingofdetroit57]

Zimmerman's deal could turn out as the best contract in this MLB off-season if he can stay healthy and pitch close to his historical averages. I'd take this contract any day over the ones handed to Price and Greinke. Zimmerman actually has a better career ERA and WHIP, and averages a tick more IP than Greinke over his career. He's also 3yrs younger and cost us about $100mil less. Price has slightly better career numbers and is only a year older, but his deal also went 2yrs longer and cost about $110mil more.

 

[Rebbiv]

Zimmerman's deal could turn out as the best contract in this MLB off-season if he can stay healthy and pitch close to his historical averages. I'd take this contract any day over the ones handed to Price and Greinke. Zimmerman actually has a better career ERA and WHIP, and averages a tick more IP than Greinke over his career. He's also 3yrs younger and cost us about $100mil less. Price has slightly better career numbers and is only a year older, but his deal also went 2yrs longer and cost about $110mil more.

We got a good value for the Zimmerman deal, but he isn't in the same "league" as Price or Greinke.

Last 3 Years Away

Z. Greinke 58.3 RC/650 2.92 xFIP 3.08 FIP .241 OPP BAVG .638 OPP OPS

D. Price 60.2 RC/650 2.89 xFIP 3.14 FIP .230 OPP BAVG .642 OPP OPS


J. Zimmermann 75.0 RC/650 3.28 xFIP 3.55 FIP .264 OPP BAVG .720 OPP OPS

A. Sanchez 75.7 RC/650 3.30 xFIP 3.56 FIP .261 OPP BAVG .706 OPP OPS


Zimmermann's stats over the last 3 years are actually very similar to Anibal Sanchez, yet Sanchez has pitched in the AL and Zimmermann in the NL. So I would grade Sanchez as the better pitcher.

Anibal will be making less than Zimmerman, Verlander, Price, Porcello and Scherzer in 2016. If Anibal pitches to his abilities, he is also a great value.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

We got a good value for the Zimmerman deal, but he isn't in the same "league" as Price or Greinke.

Last 3 Years Away

Z. Greinke 58.3 RC/650 2.92 xFIP 3.08 FIP .241 OPP BAVG .638 OPP OPS

D. Price 60.2 RC/650 2.89 xFIP 3.14 FIP .230 OPP BAVG .642 OPP OPS


J. Zimmermann 75.0 RC/650 3.28 xFIP 3.55 FIP .264 OPP BAVG .720 OPP OPS

A. Sanchez 75.7 RC/650 3.30 xFIP 3.56 FIP .261 OPP BAVG .706 OPP OPS


Zimmermann's stats over the last 3 years are actually very similar to Anibal Sanchez, yet Sanchez has pitched in the AL and Zimmermann in the NL. So I would grade Sanchez as the better pitcher.

Anibal will be making less than Zimmerman, Verlander, Price, Porcello and Scherzer in 2016. If Anibal pitches to his abilities, he is also a great value.

Agreed 100% on Anibal, but his health worries me. I believe his issues are/were in the shoulder this time, right?

 

[tomdalton22]

We got a good value for the Zimmerman deal, but he isn't in the same "league" as Price or Greinke.

Last 3 Years Away

Z. Greinke 58.3 RC/650 2.92 xFIP 3.08 FIP .241 OPP BAVG .638 OPP OPS

D. Price 60.2 RC/650 2.89 xFIP 3.14 FIP .230 OPP BAVG .642 OPP OPS


J. Zimmermann 75.0 RC/650 3.28 xFIP 3.55 FIP .264 OPP BAVG .720 OPP OPS

A. Sanchez 75.7 RC/650 3.30 xFIP 3.56 FIP .261 OPP BAVG .706 OPP OPS


Zimmermann's stats over the last 3 years are actually very similar to Anibal Sanchez, yet Sanchez has pitched in the AL and Zimmermann in the NL. So I would grade Sanchez as the better pitcher.

Anibal will be making less than Zimmerman, Verlander, Price, Porcello and Scherzer in 2016. If Anibal pitches to his abilities, he is also a great value.

I think the innings pitched would put Zimmerman ahead of Sanchez. Zimmerman pitched 614 innings compared to 465 for Sanchez.

 

[Rebbiv]

I think the innings pitched would put Zimmerman ahead of Sanchez. Zimmerman pitched 614 innings compared to 465 for Sanchez.

I was basing my opinion on abilities as measured by metrics, not on health.

 

[tomdalton22]

I was basing my opinion on abilities as measured by metrics, not on health.

oh. I put a lot of stock into a starting pitcher's ability to stay healthy and pitch close to 200 innings. A good starter that can't stay healthy doesn't help the team.

 

[Rebbiv]

oh. I put a lot of stock into a starting pitcher's ability to stay healthy and pitch close to 200 innings. A good starter that can't stay healthy doesn't help the team.

And you know Zimmermann will be more healthier going forward?

 

[tomdalton22]

And you know Zimmermann will be more healthier going forward?

how do you know that their metrics will be the same going forward?

 

[Rebbiv]

how do you know that their metrics will be the same going forward?

You are completely missing the point, but that isn't unusual.

The initial claim was the Zimmermann was on par with Greinke and Price. The metrics point that he is on par with Sanchez and Sanchez has pitched in the tougher league. And I used Sanchez as the example because he would be known to us Tiger fans.

My point about injuries, is that it has no bearing on abilities, unless it precludes them for healing back to normal.

I would also like to point out Sanchez' last 3 years years stats may have been impacted by his injuries, where Zimmermann does not have an excuse. But let's not go down that road.

 

[tomdalton22]

You are completely missing the point, but that isn't unusual.

The initial claim was the Zimmermann was on par with Greinke and Price. The metrics point that he is on par with Sanchez and Sanchez has pitched in the tougher league. And I used Sanchez as the example because he would be known to us Tiger fans.

My point about injuries, is that it has no bearing on abilities, unless it precludes them for healing back to normal.

I would also like to point out Sanchez' last 3 years years stats may have been impacted by his injuries, where Zimmermann does not have an excuse. But let's not go down that road.

as usual, you become very defensive when I bring up a different point of view. I understand that Zimmerman is not on the same level as those two guys and I never suggested that he was. My point was, even if their metrics suggest that Zimmerman and Sanchez are on the same level, their actual contribution to their respective teams is not, because Sanchez does not stay healthy.

 

[Rebbiv]

as usual, you become very defensive when I bring up a different point of view. I understand that Zimmerman is not on the same level as those two guys and I never suggested that he was. My point was, even if their metrics suggest that Zimmerman and Sanchez are on the same level, their actual contribution to their respective teams is not, because Sanchez does not stay healthy.

You are hyper-critical of players who get injured (Verlander, Cabrera, etc). It does not detract from their value, but you want it to. Injuries are a part of the game. Cal Ripken types are the exception, not the rule. It is a rare for players not to last 10 years or more and not have an injury season or two. Al Kaline will still be Al Kaline. Alan Trammell will still be Alan Trammell.

Maybe it would help you to show 3 years where Sanchez was healthy, 2011-2013:

Zimmerman 44 GS 65.9 RC/650 3.13 xFIP 3.34 FIP .252 OPP BAVG .677 OPP OPS

Sanchez 47 GS 71.7 RC/650 RC/650 3.27 xFIP 3.51 FIP .250 OPP BAVG .684 OPP OPS


Sanchez' stats above are pretty much the same as for 2013-2015. So aside from being hurt, his rates are the same. Yet, it is Zimmermann's rates that have regressed.

So, again, my conclusion still has merit.

 

[tomdalton22]

You are hyper-critical of players who get injured (Verlander, Cabrera, etc). It does not detract from their value, but you want it to. Injuries are a part of the game. Cal Ripken types are the exception, not the rule. It is a rare for players not to last 10 years or more and not have an injury season or two. Al Kaline will still be Al Kaline. Alan Trammell will still be Alan Trammell.

Maybe it would help you to show 3 years where Sanchez was healthy, 2011-2013:

Zimmerman 44 GS 65.9 RC/650 3.13 xFIP 3.34 FIP .252 OPP BAVG .677 OPP OPS

Sanchez 47 GS 71.7 RC/650 RC/650 3.27 xFIP 3.51 FIP .250 OPP BAVG .684 OPP OPS


Sanchez' stats above are pretty much the same as for 2013-2015. So aside from being hurt, his rates are the same. Yet, it is Zimmermann's rates that have regressed.

So, again, my conclusion still has merit.

so a guy that hits .330 with an .990 OPS and plays in 155 games has the same value to his team as a guy that hits .330 with an .990 OPS but only plays in 110 games?

 

[Rebbiv]

so a guy that hits .330 with an .990 OPS and plays in 155 games has the same value to his team as a guy that hits .330 with an .990 OPS but only plays in 110 games?

And here you go, down the rabbit hole.

 

[tomdalton22]

And here you go, down the rabbit hole.

and there you go turning a blind eye to reality and only looking at your "metrics".

I like the stats and metrics you bring to this board...but there is more to it than that.

 

[Rebbiv]

and there you go turning a blind eye to reality and only looking at your "metrics".

I like the stats and metrics you bring to this board...but there is more to it than that.

Tom, abilities are measured in metrics, not injuries. You cannot forecast when a player will be hurt and it isn't a player's fault if and when he gets hurt. Most players get hurt during their career at some point.

Miguel Cabrera is the best hitter in baseball. His injuries over the last couple of years probably cost. It doesn't mean Player X who played 155 games is better. You think Cabrera getting hurt effects his value, great. But that is in the past and does not change his abilities.

 

[kalinecountry]

https://expo.mlive.com/sports/g66l-...f-his-mlb-freeagent-class-not-even-close.html
Was Jordan Zimmermann biggest bust of his MLB free-agent class? Not even close.
Mlive

 

[Mitchrapp]

https://expo.mlive.com/sports/g66l-...f-his-mlb-freeagent-class-not-even-close.html
Was Jordan Zimmermann biggest bust of his MLB free-agent class? Not even close.
Mlive

Of those deals imo only Chris Davis was worse. Just terrible.

 

[dale675]

"Not even close" wtf
chris davis is the only one that is worse. i'd take ANY of the others over Zim. All the other deals are cheaper or have produced more. Zim has literally blown goats 99.9% of the time he's worn the ole English D

 

[kalinecountry]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/05/jordan-zimmermann-discusses-future.html
Jordan Zimmermann Discusses Future.
MLBTR

 

[kalinecountry]

Tigers to put Jordan Zimmermann on 45-day injured list

https://www.mlb.com/tigers/news/jordan-zimmermann-to-injured-list-with-forearm-strain
Forearm strain lands Zimmermann on 45 day IL.
Tigers official site

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2020/7...-jordan-zimmermann-on-the-45-day-injured-list
Tigers place Jordan Zimmermann on the 45 day injured list.
The injury could end the right-hander?s tenure in Detroit.
BYBTB

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...jured-list-scramble-fill-rotation/5465096002/
Tigers to put Zimmermann on 45-day injured list, scramble is on to fill rotation.
Detnews

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...t-tigers-jordan-zimmermann-injury/5464930002/
Jordan Zimmermann placed on injury list, may have thrown his last pitch for Detroit Tigers.
Freep

https://www.mlive.com/tigers/2020/07/tigers-place-jordan-zimmermann-on-45-day-injured-list.html
Tigers place Jordan Zimmermann on 45-day injured list.
Mlive

https://motorcitybengals.com/2020/07/18/detroit-tigers-jordan-zimmermann-dl/
Detroit Tigers: Making Due For the DL: The Starting Rotation Story.
MCBTB

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/07/tigers-rotation-hopefuls.html
Filling Out The Tigers? Starting Rotation.
MLBTR

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...rdan-zimmermann-miss-much-year-forearm-strain
Detroit Tigers' Jordan Zimmermann to miss much of year with forearm strain.
espn