Lombardi and others....FIRED

[adam86107]

What I like the most about this is the fact that these people have only been on staff for a couple seasons. Maybe with the old man gone someone is finally stepping up and telling the staff to produce or GTFO. No more of that loyalty bs.

 

[dubbsco]

Tony, just commenting on the notion that some people think the Lions are going to suddenly rip off a bunch of wins. I don't see it. This is a band aid on a bullet wound.

 

[zyxt9]

What I like the most about this is the fact that these people have only been on staff for a couple seasons. Maybe with the old man gone someone is finally stepping up and telling the staff to produce or GTFO. No more of that loyalty bs.

Loyalty has a time and place, but must always be earned. There has not been a single back to back 10 win season in Lions history, so who has earned an ounce of loyalty?

Being loyal is common in the Giants, Packers, Steelers, Patriots, and some others. They are able to keep players and coaches because of the environment being one that encourages loyalty and an understanding that a bad year will get turned around in time if they stay the course because they have proven to have the knowledge and ability to implement the necessary changes.

Detroit has never proven they can make proper adjustments nor have they shown any ability to win. The problem therefore becomes one of blind faith more than too much loyalty. If a coach comes in who is a winner, the hope is the Lions would be loyal to that coach. There are some teams/owners who have zero loyalty. Dallas/Jerry and Oakland/Al come to mind. There have also been entire teams dismantled after winning a Super Bowl due to a lack of loyalty.

I would rather the Lions organization have a foundation of loyalty, but unfortunately they have placed too much into blind faith with zero understanding of how to build a winning organization.

 

[tonyballs]

No idea if it was Caldwell or not when he has a presser that says no changes and the 2 hours later 3 people get fired.. I expect someone nudged him a bit. Maybe not the Fords but possibly Mayhew.

Maybe. I believe he was coaxed as well. The move had to be done regardless...

 

[tonyballs]

Tony, just commenting on the notion that some people think the Lions are going to suddenly rip off a bunch of wins. I don't see it. This is a band aid on a bullet wound.

Lol. Who said that? This team is a trainwreck!!

 

[LKP]

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2015/10/detroit_lions_second_look_offe_1.html#incart_river

Play call, protection adjustments, whiffs by TEs, RBs and tackles. Players out of position.

Everyone to blame on the 7 sacks.

 

[tonyballs]

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2015/10/detroit_lions_second_look_offe_1.html#incart_river

Play call, protection adjustments, whiffs by TEs, RBs and tackles. Players out of position.

Everyone to blame on the 7 sacks.

And that's on coaching

 

[adam86107]

Loyalty has a time and place, but must always be earned. There has not been a single back to back 10 win season in Lions history, so who has earned an ounce of loyalty?

Being loyal is common in the Giants, Packers, Steelers, Patriots, and some others. They are able to keep players and coaches because of the environment being one that encourages loyalty and an understanding that a bad year will get turned around in time if they stay the course because they have proven to have the knowledge and ability to implement the necessary changes.



Detroit has never proven they can make proper adjustments nor have they shown any ability to win. The problem therefore becomes one of blind faith more than too much loyalty. If a coach comes in who is a winner, the hope is the Lions would be loyal to that coach. There are some teams/owners who have zero loyalty. Dallas/Jerry and Oakland/Al come to mind. There have also been entire teams dismantled after winning a Super Bowl due to a lack of loyalty.

I would rather the Lions organization have a foundation of loyalty, but unfortunately they have placed too much into blind faith with zero understanding of how to build a winning organization.

I was referring to the kinda of loyalty that WCF showed Millen.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'd like to see them play well for 60 minutes.

 

[kdp1980]

Good read

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/10/27/jim-bob-cooter-detroit-lions-woes/74668850/

 

[inkfreq]

While I am in the minority on this board, I still believe this is a very talented team. That's right, I believe Stafford has a lot of talent, as does Ebron, Abdullah, Calvin, Tate, Riddick, Fuller, and even Moore.

I don't believe this team is going to suddenly rattle off enough wins to take us out of a top three pick for two reasons.

#1 The defense is lacking a lot of talent where we need it. Ngata is a very talented NT, but hasn't impressed at all as a 4-3 DT. Levy is unlikely to play again this season. Quinn is a top three safety, but Ihedigbo is struggling to keep up, and Slay and Mathis are getting killed. We just don't have the talent on the field to keep the other team from scoring at will.

#2 Jim Bob Cooter... based on the results with Stafford, I am not sure this guy is even a good QB coach, let alone an offensive coordinator. I'm fully in favor of giving Dumbardi the axe, but we replaced him with an equally inexperienced guy who may even be worse, and doesn't have anything showing he's better.

If I am Mayhew, I am already on the phone looking to trade Ngata and Manny for whatever draft picks I can get, and I am strongly considering offers for other pieces. 2016 could be a lot better after I fire Caldwell and Austin, and bring in a real coach for a change, but this season is already a washout, and I'm looking to move any short term player who could still have perceived value out there.

 

[cheeno]

If I am Mayhew I'm already on the phone with a resume expert.

 

[inkfreq]

If I am Mayhew I'm already on the phone with a resume expert.

I don't believe he can afford to think that way. All in all, he hasn't been a terrible GM.

#1 a lot of his free agent signings, Tate, Vanden Bosch, etc.. have worked out. Free agency is where a GM gets judged the most. You might have 6-8 draft picks, but you're going to have more free agents than that to deal with every year.

#2 His drafts really haven't been below average. He's not killing it, but the hit/miss ratio is pretty much normal in the NFL. We've discussed this on the board previously.

#3 His coaching hires haven't been great, but they weren't out of the box bizarre either. Schwartz was considered a top candidate for a head coaching job when he was hired. Caldwell was well thought of too. Let's not forget, Mayhew wanted Schwartz gone long before ownership let him do it, so he was at least on top of that.

#4 He has mismanaged the cap a lot, but that can be corrected with good cap advisors, which we clearly don't have. No GM is mastering the cap with all it's rules, they all have a team of support staff, and obviously ours isn't very good.

I'm sure not singing his praises here, and I wouldn't be hurt at all if he were fired. I might even be happy, assuming the next guy is a better GM.

I'm just saying I don't think there is any reason for him to feel like his job is on the line so long as he keeps making moves that, in theory, benefit the team.

Everything is theory until it hits the field.

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't believe he can afford to think that way. All in all, he hasn't been a terrible GM.

#1 a lot of his free agent signings, Tate, Vanden Bosch, etc.. have worked out. Free agency is where a GM gets judged the most. You might have 6-8 draft picks, but you're going to have more free agents than that to deal with every year.

#2 His drafts really haven't been below average. He's not killing it, but the hit/miss ratio is pretty much normal in the NFL. We've discussed this on the board previously.

#3 His coaching hires haven't been great, but they weren't out of the box bizarre either. Schwartz was considered a top candidate for a head coaching job when he was hired. Caldwell was well thought of too. Let's not forget, Mayhew wanted Schwartz gone long before ownership let him do it, so he was at least on top of that.

#4 He has mismanaged the cap a lot, but that can be corrected with good cap advisors, which we clearly don't have. No GM is mastering the cap with all it's rules, they all have a team of support staff, and obviously ours isn't very good.

I'm sure not singing his praises here, and I wouldn't be hurt at all if he were fired. I might even be happy, assuming the next guy is a better GM.

I'm just saying I don't think there is any reason for him to feel like his job is on the line so long as he keeps making moves that, in theory, benefit the team.

Everything is theory until it hits the field.

1) Tate, VB Etc? Tate has kind of worked out...but look at the team today. Tate might be the only FA that is currently on the team was a really good addition.

2) His drafts have been below average. That is an understatement. Very few impact players on this team that he has drafted

3) All of the coaches that he hired the first time have been fired. Most of the new guys he hired less than a season and 1/2 ago got fired yesterday

4) the cap is a mess.

All 4 of your points show me that he sucks as a GM!

 

[inkfreq]

1) Tate, VB Etc? Tate has kind of worked out...but look at the team today. Tate might be the only FA that is currently on the team was a really good addition.

2) His drafts have been below average. That is an understatement. Very few impact players on this team that he has drafted

3) All of the coaches that he hired the first time have been fired. Most of the new guys he hired less than a season and 1/2 ago got fired yesterday

4) the cap is a mess.

All 4 of your points show me that he sucks as a GM!

You and I disagree there.

1) Very rarely do top flight players hit free agency, and when they do, it's a mad scramble to land them usually resulting in contracts that hurt the team long term. 95% of what a GM does in free agency is landing role players and gap fillers. He's done that, and done it pretty well.

2) It's been shown in arguments before he's really no worse than any other GM in his drafts.

3) Same can be said about any GM given enough time in the chair.

4) The cap is no worse than any other team at this point. Every team has some contracts they wish they didn't, and in the case of our big money deals, I doubt anyone wishes we didn't have Calvin, and about half the people regret Stafford. Not too shabby.

Again, I don't want to come off as a Mayhew fan. I'm a realist. And I don't feel he's done that badly. He sure as hell hasn't wowed anyone, but he doesn't deserve the firing squad either.

 

[grandy]

Lions are actually in pretty good shape cap-wise. The only big contracts are CJ, Ngata, and Stafford, Ngata is gone after this year and Stafford/CJ become cap savings next year (if cut).

Levy, Tate, and Quin are all in the middle $$$ range and pretty good value.

Pettigrew and Tulloch are looking a little overpaid, but not terribly so and Tulloch is easily cuttable next season.

Honestly, they could start with a near clean slate in 2017. I would imagine that's somewhat attractive to a new GM.

 

[cheeno]

I think there has been enough emotional opinion in the past few days exchanged about the state of this team. Let's use raw data to explain how bad Mayhew actually has been.

Over the last decade we ranked 25/32 teams in draft production. I know you have three years of Millen in there but you have seven of Mayhew. Add in that we have been picking top ten most of those years, the fact that most of those who did start for us are now playing for other teams or no team and that Ted Thompson far and away the best drafter in the league is in our division and that is a recipe for a failed organization.

http://b1.caspio.com/dp.asp?AppKey=eab01000c9a1a272954e4fc589fb

Source: Press Gazette Media.

When you are acquiring as many free agents as we have over the past 7 years you are bound to hit on some of the high priced ones. Check out some of the FA additions we had to trot out as starters due to Mayhews poor draft record. And standing pat in 2012 thinking he had a Super Bowl contender on his hands when he had a handful of aging vets was pure gold.

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2009det.php
http://walterfootball.com/offseason2010det.php
http://walterfootball.com/offseason2011det.php
http://walterfootball.com/offseason2012det.php
http://walterfootball.com/offseason2013det.php
http://walterfootball.com/offseason2014det.php
http://walterfootball.com/offseason2015det.php

Some FAs making starts you may have forgot:
WR Bryant Johnson 2009
SS C.C Brown 2010
CB Eric Wright 2011
CB Jacob Lacey 2012
DE Israel Idonije 2013
FB Jedediah Collins 2014
DT Tyrunn Walker we hardly knew ye

 

[tomdalton22]

You and I disagree there.

1) Very rarely do top flight players hit free agency, and when they do, it's a mad scramble to land them usually resulting in contracts that hurt the team long term. 95% of what a GM does in free agency is landing role players and gap fillers. He's done that, and done it pretty well.

2) It's been shown in arguments before he's really no worse than any other GM in his drafts.

3) Same can be said about any GM given enough time in the chair.

4) The cap is no worse than any other team at this point. Every team has some contracts they wish they didn't, and in the case of our big money deals, I doubt anyone wishes we didn't have Calvin, and about half the people regret Stafford. Not too shabby.

Again, I don't want to come off as a Mayhew fan. I'm a realist. And I don't feel he's done that badly. He sure as hell hasn't wowed anyone, but he doesn't deserve the firing squad either.

I just don't see it. I understand the free agency aspect of it a little bit. I 100% disagree about the draft. There are very few good "home grown" players on this team that were drafted by Mayhew. As far as the coaching staff...you are wrong. He extended Gym Shorts which was a huge mistake then he hired this clown show. No way in defending his decision making there.

 

[LKP]

Slay,reiff,warford,Quin,Stafford,bell,waddle,Tate , tulloch have proven they can play better

Ngata is playing well. Missed 2.5 games too. Better than any free agent out there.

Levy and pettigrew got ****ing hurt as did warford. And **** jr sweezy for his cheap shot on walker. I hope sweezy snaps his neck

Lombardi made sense at the time. And they cut bait when it didn't work. Cooters chance now

 

[Mitchrapp]

While I am in the minority on this board, I still believe this is a very talented team. That's right, I believe Stafford has a lot of talent, as does Ebron, Abdullah, Calvin, Tate, Riddick, Fuller, and even Moore.

I don't believe this team is going to suddenly rattle off enough wins to take us out of a top three pick for two reasons.

#1 The defense is lacking a lot of talent where we need it. Ngata is a very talented NT, but hasn't impressed at all as a 4-3 DT. Levy is unlikely to play again this season. Quinn is a top three safety, but Ihedigbo is struggling to keep up, and Slay and Mathis are getting killed. We just don't have the talent on the field to keep the other team from scoring at will.

#2 Jim Bob Cooter... based on the results with Stafford, I am not sure this guy is even a good QB coach, let alone an offensive coordinator. I'm fully in favor of giving Dumbardi the axe, but we replaced him with an equally inexperienced guy who may even be worse, and doesn't have anything showing he's better.

If I am Mayhew, I am already on the phone looking to trade Ngata and Manny for whatever draft picks I can get, and I am strongly considering offers for other pieces. 2016 could be a lot better after I fire Caldwell and Austin, and bring in a real coach for a change, but this season is already a washout, and I'm looking to move any short term player who could still have perceived value out there.

I disagree with "talented" team. They have talent but not enough to be a talented team. 2015 is Matt's career in a shell. He can have good games, we've all seen it. He can also struggle in parts of games, in full games, 2-3 games at a time. All with similar OL. So I'm not buying, struggles it's on the OL, succeeds it's him.

RB, I don't seen anyone who has talent. Not the whole package to be a productive player. Excluding Riddick (though I see him see him as more a WR).

The aforementioned OL, they need much more. WR/TE are solid as a group.

DLINE, Ziggy. Just Ziggy. Secondary, they're just dumb. Trying to make the big play, making too many mistakes. Without Levy, LB's are average as a group.