More disappointing season for fans....

[Mitchrapp]

Drafting a QB in the second round only makes sense if we hit on a bunch of defensive players in FA. We need a DE (expensive), potentially two LBs (could be cheap), a safety (cheap-ish), and CB (expensive). We also need at least one new O-lineman (maybe two). We may even need a DT, depending on where you project Hand.

Even if Stafford isn't elite like we might desire, he's not exactly holding the team back (like pretty much all the rookie QBs this year). We could do a lot worse (and have). I'm totally fine with replacing him after his cap hit drops, but that's at least a couple years away. And we don't know what QBs will come out between now and then.

That's why it's a good idea to draft one sit the bench for two years and then see if it's still Matt or the other guy. AR sat awhile and they decided it was his time and let Favre go. And he was a hall of famer. All those others needs, no way we get all that in 1 year. More like 3-4 years and that's if it's done right.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

That's why it's a good idea to draft one sit the bench for two years and then see if it's still Matt or the other guy. AR sat awhile and they decided it was his time and let Favre go. And he was a hall of famer. All those others needs, no way we get all that in 1 year. More like 3-4 years and that's if it's done right.

What I was getting at is cost-benefit. A second round pick is almost a surefire starter on this team, with half a dozen different positions to fill. Using that pick on a QB right now would have to check a number of boxes that I don't think we can hit. When good teams with established QBs draft another QB, it almost always due to age and opportunity. When GB drafted Rodgers in the first round, Favre was already 36 and Rodgers had been considered a top pick who fell significantly. When NE drafted Garappollo in the second round, Brady was already 37.

I think a better comparison would be how Kansas City handled Alex Smith. Smith actually played well there, he was a noticeable upgrade over previous QBs (just like Stafford). But instead of standing pat with a QB that was good-not-great, they targeted a player with more talent and moved up to take him (Mahomes). But even Smith was 33 when Mahomes was drafted. Mahomes was a top 10 pick.

There's arguably not a top 10 QB in this year's draft. So even if Herbert fell, it wouldn't be the opportunity of a Rodgers or Mahomes. And Stafford isn't so old that we NEED to be planning for his replacement. At that point, the cost (using a second round pick on a player who may never play for us) is too great.

 

[tonyballs]

If he shits the bed again next year would you be on board? Imo, we need more pieces on defense in this coming off season to draft a QB that early. Next year needs to be Stafford's last year if he doesn't shine. This shit has gone on long enough. If there weren't so many holes on defense I'd have no problem with them drafting a qb this year. Right now I think I'd rather start fresh than listen to any more excuses for Stafford not getting it done.

If we're drafting a QB high in the draft then they better be drafting to replace him. Usually that's the case anyways. I would just rather them grab an impact player on defense the first 3 rounds. Stafford is a minor problem this yr. He's not the main issue IMO. The defense is trash from top to bottom. They need a whole new revamp.
Maybe you guys get your wish tho. Maybe a QB falls to Quinn that he absolutely can't pass. All I know is, if that happens, he better be a fucking stud and play immediately.

 

[tonyballs]

That's why it's a good idea to draft one sit the bench for two years and then see if it's still Matt or the other guy. AR sat awhile and they decided it was his time and let Favre go. And he was a hall of famer. All those others needs, no way we get all that in 1 year. More like 3-4 years and that's if it's done right.

You can't compare the Aaron Rodgers scenario to ours. Cmon man.

 

[LKP]

Let's draft a QB. Sit him the first 3 years of his four year contract like ARod-Mitch

 

[Mitchrapp]

What I was getting at is cost-benefit. A second round pick is almost a surefire starter on this team, with half a dozen different positions to fill. Using that pick on a QB right now would have to check a number of boxes that I don't think we can hit. When good teams with established QBs draft another QB, it almost always due to age and opportunity. When GB drafted Rodgers in the first round, Favre was already 36 and Rodgers had been considered a top pick who fell significantly. When NE drafted Garappollo in the second round, Brady was already 37.

I think a better comparison would be how Kansas City handled Alex Smith. Smith actually played well there, he was a noticeable upgrade over previous QBs (just like Stafford). But instead of standing pat with a QB that was good-not-great, they targeted a player with more talent and moved up to take him (Mahomes). But even Smith was 33 when Mahomes was drafted. Mahomes was a top 10 pick.

There's arguably not a top 10 QB in this year's draft. So even if Herbert fell, it wouldn't be the opportunity of a Rodgers or Mahomes. And Stafford isn't so old that we NEED to be planning for his replacement. At that point, the cost (using a second round pick on a player who may never play for us) is too great.

Need to draft one eventually. I might agree on the point of Stafford and his age but nowadays it's not auto you keep your QB for a career unless you're a stud. Which we know Matt isn't. You say Mchomes was a top ten pick I actually wouldn't be opposed to a 1st round QB though maybe next year but if I said that the board would implode. Matt is 31 or will be not a kid anymore. Sometimes you have to be drastic. We're not winning and haven't been. Shake it up.

 

[Mitchrapp]

In any event we can't be worse.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

In any event we can't be worse.

Have you seen Darnold, Allen, and Rosen play? It could absolutely be worse. But the Mahomes pick is the best case scenario. I really don't think it would work out that well, since Stafford is owed so much money the next few years (and would cost a boatload to trade in the next two years). We should keep in mind that these players are human beings, and not cogs in a Madden game. Stafford may not take it well that the team is trying to replace him, and could play even worse next year, blowing another year of rookie contracts and lowering his trade value.

Even if we find a good QB in the draft, we can't know that it will turn out as smooth and relatively happy as the Smith-Mahomes transition did. Think of our current coaching situation. Cooter may be going into job-saving mode, and that could mean abandoning the pretenses of developing a rookie QB. A new coordinator may not be excited to come into a situation where they have to try and make Stafford look good while at the same time creating a system for a totally different QB.

FYI, I agree that this team needs a shakeup. And if the front office absolutely falls in love with someone like Herbert or Grier in the draft, then they should do what seems best for the team. But I think it's a lot more complicated from a human and team perspective. I'd rather make that move when we have more immediate flexibility, where we could trade Stafford that same year and not completely ruin our cap.

 

[LKP]

They love Stafford. I would be beyond shocked if they traded him for an unknown rookie

Thy will try to build the defense and add one more weapon with the 40-60 million in space and 7 draft picks.

If they are ok with 30 million in dead space, they can trade him and still have 40-60 million in room. They would need a qb with one of those gained 1sts for Stafford and they won’t know if they will have their guy until draft day

Nobody with extra 2019 picks needs a qb other than maybe New England. Oakland has 3 1sts but have Derek carr. Packers two 1st but rodgers

 

[Mitchrapp]

Have you seen Darnold, Allen, and Rosen play? It could absolutely be worse. But the Mahomes pick is the best case scenario. I really don't think it would work out that well, since Stafford is owed so much money the next few years (and would cost a boatload to trade in the next two years). We should keep in mind that these players are human beings, and not cogs in a Madden game. Stafford may not take it well that the team is trying to replace him, and could play even worse next year, blowing another year of rookie contracts and lowering his trade value.

Even if we find a good QB in the draft, we can't know that it will turn out as smooth and relatively happy as the Smith-Mahomes transition did. Think of our current coaching situation. Cooter may be going into job-saving mode, and that could mean abandoning the pretenses of developing a rookie QB. A new coordinator may not be excited to come into a situation where they have to try and make Stafford look good while at the same time creating a system for a totally different QB.

FYI, I agree that this team needs a shakeup. And if the front office absolutely falls in love with someone like Herbert or Grier in the draft, then they should do what seems best for the team. But I think it's a lot more complicated from a human and team perspective. I'd rather make that move when we have more immediate flexibility, where we could trade Stafford that same year and not completely ruin our cap.

What's the difference no playoff either way. But no Stafford might mean less wins better draft pick. More money to build the defense. Yes the flexibility makes it hard now but next year possible. The one problem I see is the organization thinks Matt is a stud. My scenario is trade down since we need so much. Get an extra 2, DE and DE and QB. Or DE LB ? and grab a QB next year. I'm 53, when does it get good.

 

[kmd47]

How does taking Davis over Foster look now?!?!

 

[kdp1980]

How does taking Davis over Foster look now?!?!

Like we shouldn't have drafted either one

 

[kdp1980]

Have you seen Darnold, Allen, and Rosen play? It could absolutely be worse. .

Darnold? The guy that looked like the next Arod compared to Stafford in our matchup, and his first game as a pro? Probably the worst I've yelled at Stafford through the TV in his entire career, lol. Also the game that really put the nail in the coffin for me on Stafford. Fuck that clown

 

[mhughes0021]

Just to clarify i don't think we should draft a guy like Grier this coming draft. Too many years left on Staffords deal and he isn't going anywhere. This draft better be all defense or I'll freak out. I was merely pointing out you can get quality starters that have just as good a skill set as stafford in the 2nd rd and they'd cost 90 million less. 2021 buh bye Stafford.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Just to clarify i don't think we should draft a guy like Grier this coming draft. Too many years left on Staffords deal and he isn't going anywhere. This draft better be all defense or I'll freak out. I was merely pointing out you can get quality starters that have just as good a skill set as stafford in the 2nd rd and they'd cost 90 million less. 2021 buh bye Stafford.

You know they'll go offense TE or OL or WR. Why change now.. Gotta get those weapons for Matt.

 

[sggatecl]

As a few of you know, my wife is from Green Bay and I had to live there for several years. Lived a couple blocks from Lambeau, I've seen more Lions games there than at Ford Field. Still have some friends back there.

Let me tell you something: You've never encountered a more spoiled, entitled, ignorant fan base in your life. The closest thing I've ever seen to it is former Red Wings fans of the 90s/2000s. They are beside themselves this year, you'd think their franchise is on the verge of collapse and ready to be moved out of state.

There are three positives I take from this season:

1. Kerryon Johnson and Kenny Golloday
2. Snacks Harrison and Da'Shawn Hand
3. Packers not making the playoffs (possibly, fucking spoiled brats)

 

[kmd47]

Like we shouldn't have drafted either one

He may not be the 3 down MLB we thought we had but I feel that surrounded with a little more help and a better role he can still be a solid player.

 

[brewer229]

Have you seen Darnold, Allen, and Rosen play? It could absolutely be worse. But the Mahomes pick is the best case scenario. I really don't think it would work out that well, since Stafford is owed so much money the next few years (and would cost a boatload to trade in the next two years).

It would be cheaper (cap wise) to trade Stafford and play a rookie.:
In 2019 he counts 29,500,000 against the cap
In 2020 he counts 31,500,000 against the cap

If we trade him and designate him a post 6/1 trade:
His dead cap number would be 10,000,000 in 2019 (19,500,000 cap savings)
His dead cap number would be 20,000,000 in 2020 (11,500,000 cap savings)

If we trade him pre 6/1 date:
His dead cap number is 30,000,000 in 2019 (500,000 additional cap hit)
His dead cap number is 0 in 2020 (31,500,000 cap savings)


He is cheaper to trade because his 2019 salary and roster bonus are fully guaranteed, so if we cut him we are responsible for that, if we trade him the new team is responsible for his 2019 guaranteed salary and roster bonus, we are only on the hook for the remaining 30,000,000 in signing bonus.


New team would get him for:
2019: 19,500,000
2020: 21,500,000
2021: 20,000,000
2022: 23,000,000

That said, it's not going to happen.

 

[tomdalton22]

It would be cheaper (cap wise) to trade Stafford and play a rookie.:
In 2019 he counts 29,500,000 against the cap
In 2020 he counts 31,500,000 against the cap

If we trade him and designate him a post 6/1 trade:
His dead cap number would be 10,000,000 in 2019 (19,500,000 cap savings)
His dead cap number would be 20,000,000 in 2020 (11,500,000 cap savings)

If we trade him pre 6/1 date:
His dead cap number is 30,000,000 in 2019 (500,000 additional cap hit)
His dead cap number is 0 in 2020 (31,500,000 cap savings)


He is cheaper to trade because his 2019 salary and roster bonus are fully guaranteed, so if we cut him we are responsible for that, if we trade him the new team is responsible for his 2019 guaranteed salary and roster bonus, we are only on the hook for the remaining 30,000,000 in signing bonus.


New team would get him for:
2019: 19,500,000
2020: 21,500,000
2021: 20,000,000
2022: 23,000,000

That said, it's not going to happen.

Gruden has done some dumb things. Maybe they cut Carr (I guess he has an out after this year) and trade for Stafford.

Raiders get Stafford

Lions get 2 of the 3 first round picks that Oakland has. :cheers:

 

[boogerlovejoy]

He may not be the 3 down MLB we thought we had but I feel that surrounded with a little more help and a better role he can still be a solid player.

I think Davis has improved this year. A full year of actual, legit NFL talent in front of him will help. Snacks will eat up a lot of blocks....and Hand has been one of the highest rated defensive rookies in football this year.