No Deal For Cliff

[lp4ever41]

NFL Network's Albert Breer reports negotiations between unsigned franchise player Cliff Avril and the Lions have "broken off" less than two hours before Monday's 4:00 p.m. deadline.
According to Breer, it's now a "near certainty" that a deal will not be brokered before the deadline. Although Avril is unsure about his next move, a protracted holdout seems unlikely. Due a whopping $10.6 million under the tag, Avril isn't going to risk losing that paycheck by sitting out regular-season games.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Figures. This probably means Avril is asking for a whole lot. Can't imagine MM short changing him. Wonder how far apart they were?

 

[wheels002]

I am not shocked that they couldnt come to a long term deal. I think the Lions were not going to pay him more than an 8 mil a year average and he wanted 10 or more. He had made reference a couple times to the contracts Hali and Ware got and I knew we were not going to go there with him because we couldnt. Now he will play under the franchise number and be a FA at the end of the year. We will take his 10.6 and resign some of our own players and move on. I think Cliff overplayed his hand. He is a good player but he isnt as dominate as his demands suggested he was.

 

[lp4ever41]

Figures. This probably means Avril is asking for a whole lot. Can't imagine MM short changing him. Wonder how far apart they were?

Probably a decent gap. I'm glad he's not getting a new deal, IMO it'll be hard for him to reproduce what he did last year:

1. He should see less playing time now that LoJack is healthy and they added depth (Lewis).
2. He probably won't get as many strip sacks, since those are historically difficult to replicate and his six was pretty high.
3. Chance of injury, of course.
4. More attention paid to him than in the past.

He's a really good player, and I really like him, but he's been hanging his hat on those 11 sacks. Lets see him repeat that.

 

[lp4ever41]

According to NFL Network's Albert Breer, the Lions' final offer to franchise player Cliff Avril was $30 million over three years, with $20 million guaranteed.

Can't blame him for rejecting that, I suppose

 

[tomdalton22]

According to NFL Network's Albert Breer, the Lions' final offer to franchise player Cliff Avril was $30 million over three years, with $20 million guaranteed.

Can't blame him for rejecting that, I suppose

And I can't blame the Lions for not offering any more. He had some good stats last year but I don't think he is an elite DE.

 

[lp4ever41]

And I can't blame the Lions for not offering any more. He had some good stats last year but I don't think he is an elite DE.

Yep. The Lions won't overpay, and he knows someone out there will. Neither side caved. He's likely gone next year.

 

[wheels002]

I think he was looking more in the 5 yr 60 mil with 40-45 mil guaranteed. They clearly were not going to overpay for him. And I am OK will letting him play this year and letting him hit the FA market. Let someone else overpay for a DE who cant play the run. For as much as people say CJ inflates Staffs numbers I believe the same is true that Suh inflates Cliff's numbers. He never faces a double team because everyone gets preoccupied with Suh and our DT's

 

[hopelesslionsfan]

After this season we could use Cliffs money to resign key players.

The depth at DE is pretty strong eventhough their will be a drop off from Avril but I don't think it is a huge drop off.

* Lo Jack
* Willie Young
Ronnell Lewis
* Everette Brown (I think he will be the suprise Lion this year in the wide 9 scheme)
KVB

* resign players with Cliffs $

 

[LKP]

Avril didn't want 10 million a year. C-ya Cliff. Of course it could have been a 3 year deal but really a two year deal with a smaller signing bonus(guranteed salary in year 2) that the Lions restructured next year turning base into another signing bonus. Cliff still gets paid but only really plays for the Lions two more seasons and is cut year 3. No long term security for Avril.

 

[lionsFTW]

Let someone else overpay for a DE who cant play the run. For as much as people say CJ inflates Staffs numbers I believe the same is true that Suh inflates Cliff's numbers. He never faces a double team because everyone gets preoccupied with Suh and our DT's

LOL, you should look into how the wide 9 applies to the front four of that system before you spew this crap around here. this isn't the kiddie game, some people around here actually understand what the hell is going on.

 

[LKP]

Wide 9 definitley hurts Avrils run defense but it helps his pass rush. Meaning Young or Lo Jack could possibly duplicate the pass rush if given the snaps. Lo Jack and Young did play better run D than Avril although much more limited snaps.

And if you add up Lo Jack in 2010 and 2011 he has 258 run defense snaps and he has a postive run D grade. Of course 2011 he played Right End.

 

[wheels002]

I know about the wide 9. We have talked about it many times but just because we play a wide 9 doesnt mean Cliff shouldnt pay attention as the RB runs right by him. Cliff's numbers are because of our system and our DT's. If Suh wasnt double teamed on every play Cliff wouldnt get as many free runs at the QB. QB's also dont step up as much because Suh and Corey are there which allows Cliff to get sacks. Dont act like I am clueless. We have had this same conversation for years.

 

[lp4ever41]

Whatever....now that this is (for now) over, lets focus on the season!!!

 

[lionsFTW]

Apparently you are because you despite claiming to understand you dismiss the exact component that makes him a wide 9 DE.

The DE is lined up between the slot receiver and the tackle meaning he doesn't see doubles from interior lineman a lot and is essentially told to "pin your ears back and get em". Its usually 1 vs 1 + the TE when he chips. His job is to pressure from the outside and push the pocket in and up. Our Dtackles pressure up the middle, usually 2 vs 3 + the RB when he stays in. Linebackers are supposed to flow to the ball and plug the gaps or drop in coverage. That's it. The wide 9! It's annoying to here all the "Avril plays the run terrible" or "he never gets doubles" talk. Its not his job to be a run stuffer or beat tackle + guard doubles. The system is built this way intentionally.

 

[wheels002]

An interior lineman can double a wide 9 DE I have seen it done. Also I have seen many times where teams love to run draws right at Cliff because they know he will be way up the field and the RB cuts back to where Cliff was. And how can you explain that our other DE's play better run defense than Cliff does and everyone of them plays the wide 9. the way you are talking is because Cliff plays a wide 9 he has no run responsibilities and that is incorrect. The key to a wide 9 defense is great DT's. Thats why the eagles had issues last year. They struggled up the middle and it made the wide 9 a waste.

 

[lionsFTW]

An interior lineman can double a wide 9 DE I have seen it done.

I've seen people snort an 8 ball of cocaine in one night, doesn't mean its standard, so what's your point?

Also I have seen many times where teams love to run draws right at Cliff because they know he will be way up the field and the RB cuts back to where Cliff was.

Because Cliff is told, every single snap he's on the field other than short yardage situations, GET TO THE QB

And how can you explain that our other DE's play better run defense than Cliff does and everyone of them plays the wide 9.

Because Cliff is slightly worse at playing the run from a wide 9 position than, say, KVB? He's also the best at getting to the QB from the wide 9, which is his priority

the way you are talking is because Cliff plays a wide 9 he has no run responsibilities and that is incorrect.

You're right, I guess if he can get a hand on a ball carrier as he's flying up field to try and sack Cutler he maybe should, other than that in the wide 9 the LB's are supposed to be the run stuffers filling the gaps left by the wide stance holes created by the scheme

The key to a wide 9 defense is great DT's. Thats why the eagles had issues last year. They struggled up the middle and it made the wide 9 a waste.

No, the Eagles struggles last year were because of poor linebacker play, that's why they went out and trade for Demaco Ryans

Here's a couple sources for you so you know I'm not blowing smoke

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...e-mlb-demeco-ryans-from-texans/1#.UASNht3Nlfs

"Ryans (6-1, 247 pounds) should fit snugly into the Eagles' 4-3 base scheme featuring its Wide 9 pass rush. Philadelphia hasn't had a reliable middle linebacker since Jeremiah Trotter was in his prime and often struggled against the run in 2011, especially given the gaping lanes the Wide 9 often created."



http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/...ide-nine-is-not-the-problem-with-the-eagles-d

"I'm not sure whether it's the fact that it's something new or that some color guy on the broadcasts have talked about about it, but a lot of people here seemed to decided to blame Jim Washburn's "wide nine" system. It's not so much that the system is inherently bad, as the Titans proved for years it's not, it's that the Eagles simply don't have the LBs to be successful in it and it makes the team susceptible to the run."




http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ceptions-about-the-philadelphia-eagles/page/3

"Jim Washburn and his wide-9 scheme got mixed reviews in 2011. It helped the Eagles reach 50 sacks last season but it also caused a lot of problems against the run. Some people believe that the scheme doesn't work, it just opens things up too much against screens and the run game.

The Eagles' problems against the run in 2011 were more a case of poor linebacker player than it was a more aggressive defensive line scheme. The Tennessee Titans ran this scheme for years with Washburn, but they always had good linebacker player, whether it was Keith Bullock or Stephen Tulloch."

 

[wheels002]

Whatever...My question is then would you pay Cliff his 12 mil a year and risk losing Delmas and Suh and all our other good young players or let Cliff walk figuring as I have said then we can plug a cheaper DE in and get close to his numbers and resign some of our other young players?

 

[lionsFTW]

Shift goal post much?

I never said we should pay Cliff 12 a year. I simply disregarded your claim as nonsense and you tried defending it. You said some things, I said some things that showed otherwise and now we're here, talking about something that has absolutely nothing to do with your original statement I quoted as nonsense.

Anyways, I have some work to do. If you have any other claims that are relevant to the topic at hand I'll be back later, otherwise, have a good one.

 

[mhughes0021]

We need an elite DE at some point anyways. Avril is not it. 10 mil per year and 3 years worth of guaranteed money is fair for him....if he wanted more than that hes nuts.