No Justice No Peace

[KAWDUP]

I don't have to rip it apart at all. It's pretty limited-as an zero-substantiation of a huge leap brought it and generalized claim.

Wha? :hmm:

 

[zyxt9]

Research it, you might learn something. You asked for me to provide evidence/documentation. If this is inadequate, then look for a source you prefer. It was in all papersbof thr time, went to courts, well documented. Maybe one will spin it hiw you prefer.

 

[tinselwolverine]

E

Research it, you might learn something. You asked for me to provide evidence/documentation. If this is inadequate, then look for a source you prefer. It was in all papersbof thr time, went to courts, well documented. Maybe one will spin it hiw you prefer.

You made a sweeping statement about the "black community," then you cited some isolated event from some tiny little town in New York.

That is not substantiation of the sweeping declaration that you made.

EDIT: ha ha and you used the verbiage "forcibly removed," that's pretty funny whatever that was supposed to mean.

DOUBLE EDIT: my bad, a neighborhood in the city of New York not a tiny little town in the state of New York.

Still doesn't really support a claim about the "black community." Just supports the claim about that neighborhood.

 

[tinselwolverine]

they forcibly removed all non-black teachers from their schools…

That is what you stated. Nothing in your "documentation" upholds, substantiates, or verifies that.

It doesn't even pretend to.

 

[Spartanmack]

they forcibly removed all non-black teachers from their schools…

That is what you stated. Nothing in your "documentation" upholds, substantiates, or verifies that.

It doesn't even pretend to.

this one is kind of nit picky - the piece says they cancelled the teachers' contracts against the objection of the teachers who were fighting the dismissals. It's not prying their hands off the desks and dragging them out, but getting rid of a union employee, especially a teacher in New York City is a lot harder and takes more effort than firing any at-will employee.

 

[tinselwolverine]

this one is kind of nit picky - the piece says they cancelled the teachers' contracts against the objection of the teachers who were fighting the dismissals. It's not prying their hands off the desks and dragging them out, but getting rid of a union employee, especially a teacher in New York City is a lot harder and takes more effort than firing any at-will employee.

Things mean what they mean.

The "black community" did not "forcibly remove" all of the non-black teachers from "their schools."

The piece doesn't substantiate, support, corroborate nor verify that at all.

It's like claiming that Malcolm X "and his ilk" took the reins of the civil rights movement from Martin Luther King Junior (and kicked out all the Jews who had been marching along side Dr. King and the Nation of Islam) even though Malcolm X had been dead for three years before Martin Luther King Junior turned over those reins (presuming Martin Luther King Junior gave up those rains at the time of his death).

Things mean what they mean, and if a person means to claim something other than than what they are stating, then that person should actually state what they are meaning to claim.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Zyrt, dude, i'm not trying to be harsh with you, but you're making a huge sweeping generalizations about something that is kind of historic nonevent.

Yes some black people thought black kids should be taught by black teachers - I have no doubt that some still do-but it was not part of any kind of major movement within the "black community."

I grew up back in those times; it really wasn't a thing, not really - not a big national movement or anything like that. It wasn't any kind of ubiquitous thing.

 

[zyxt9]

That incident set the precedent. From that point forward, other predominantly black schools experienced white flight.

Now, in MANY situations there were bad white teachers who degraded black students. They deserved to be fired but usually transferred. Nonetheless, the areas that became mostly black witnessed a mass exodus of white teachers.

I am NOT saying that was a bad thing, especially for those times. My point was they achieved the removal of white teachers starting with this, and it spread to Chicago, Detroit, LA and other places. The precedent was set, and as black population density for a given area increased, so did the black teacher population density. I honestly do not have issue with any of that, it is logical IMO. Unfortunately, the hoped for improvements in black education did not follow.

Now champ will argue it was the white flight and lack resulting lack of funding that resulted in the continued failure of black students at a higher than average rate. I'm not saying he doesn't have a valid argument there.

Nonetheless, the communities got their preferred scenario, black teachers teaching black students. And I'm sure there were many black students who changed their lives after that, becoming positive contributors. Unfortunately, the dropout rates didn't really change much and grades didn't really improve.

Our more recent times have seen a preference toward more integration of races. Yet the dropout rates and grades don't improve in these areas. I will say the curriculums suck, but that applies to all students at all schools. The other minorities manage to achieve much higher success. These indicatorsbpoint toward the issue being more societal than the fault of teachers, curriculum, or - and this is important - the students themselves. The community, that village I mentioned...that is the difference maker.

Forced integration has failed to produce results. It is important for the future to recognize the issue with poor performance lies first and foremost in each students home. You were a teacher, you get that. If a kid had parents who didn't care, typically that meant the kid did not care. Then there is the second tier factor, where despite the parents caring, the peer pressure decreases the kid's desire to learn.

Fixing those things is the correct path toward equal test scores and reduced drop out rates. Today it shoukd not matter what race a teacher is, there are bad and good of every background. The important part is not placing blame on other factors. Enough poor people from every background, including black, overcome the issue and achieve success...when the parents and the community demonstrate the importance. Champ makes fun of hillbillies and rednecks for lacking education, but screams racism when it cones to blacks. The evidence is there, none of those students who failed had a solid support system in place. That is not the fault of teachers, the curriculum, etc., it is a failure of the communities that perpetuate the idea that education is not important.

 

[zyxt9]

By community, I don't mean everyonebof same race in that area...I'm talking about the environment each specific child is experiencing. Parents, friends, relatives, random people at playgrounds, teammates, and similar direct contact influencers. That community is what every child needs to be strong, supportive, helpful, and provide direction when the child is overwhelmed, lost, or even uncaring.

 

[tigermud]

PICTURES AND FOOTAGE YOU WON’T SEE ON TV: BALTIMORE CITIZENS ARE DONE WITH MINDLESS RIOTERS

Following lead of Robert Valentine, community unites to put a halt to idiocy

It seems that the lone Vietnam veteran who took a stand against violent looters Monday has inspired a real uprising in Baltimore – against the rioters.

Incredible scenes underreported and barely covered by the mainstream media unfolded just ahead of the designated curfew yesterday as citizens lined up, and even held hands in front police lines, putting themselves in the direct line of fire of bottles, bricks and rocks being thrown toward cops.

Their message to the rioters was ‘enough with this sh*t':

http://www.infowars.com/pictures-an...more-citizens-are-done-with-mindless-rioters/

 

[zyxt9]

That is really good to hear. I hope they all get through it without injury. The innocent people do not deserve to suffer the rath of the rioters.

Now we need the police to act similarly, taking down those who abuse the badge. Enough is enough on their side too.

 

[biggunsbob]

Read it and weep
articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-08-13/news/bs-ed-welfare-20130813_1_welfare-recipients-typical-recipient-family-unsubsidized-jobs

Cato Institute LOL Founded by Charles Koch .. Nice try .. I am sure there are millions of Baltimore residents
trying to get 36,000 a year for free.. Give me a number?

 

[Spartanmack]

Cato Institute LOL Founded by Charles Koch .. Nice try .. I am sure there are millions of Baltimore residents
trying to get 36,000 a year for free.. Give me a number?

That was awfully dismissive and mean spirited for someone who complains about other posters being so disrespectful to everyone.

Do you have any evidence besides "Cato Institute LOL" that the data is inaccurate or is that all you need to show that it's obviously untrue? Is it on record that journalists and editors from the Baltimore Sun don't fact check so we can automatically dismiss this article offhand because we know 1) the Cato Institute only produces lies and 2) the Baltimore Sun has no journalistic integrity?

FYI, the population of the city of Baltimore is only 622k so you nailed that one - there definitely are not millions of Baltimore residents trying to get $36k per year for free.

But if they're not getting almost $36k per year - which the article and study indicates is the maximum, not the average - how much assistance is the typical unemployed mother of 2 getting? Is there a reason why she wouldn't want or try to get the maximum? Even if she is only getting 75% of the maximum, that's $27k per year or $12.98 per hour after taxes, which works out to just over $15 per hour or $31.1k per year for taxpaying wage earners (happy to provide you with the calcs if you'd like). Either way, that kicks the living shit out of typical low skill wages, doesn't it?

Knowing that, is it not reasonable to say that welfare provides a significant disincentive to working?

 

[tsmith7559]

Cato Institute LOL Founded by Charles Koch .. Nice try .. I am sure there are millions of Baltimore residents
trying to get 36,000 a year for free.. Give me a number?

You think MSNBC is going to expose this? Funny, no one has disputed the findings

 

[biggunsbob]

That was awfully dismissive and mean spirited for someone who complains about other posters being so disrespectful to everyone.

Do you have any evidence besides "Cato Institute LOL" that the data is inaccurate or is that all you need to show that it's obviously untrue? Is it on record that journalists and editors from the Baltimore Sun don't fact check so we can automatically dismiss this article offhand because we know 1) the Cato Institute only produces lies and 2) the Baltimore Sun has no journalistic integrity?

FYI, the population of the city of Baltimore is only 622k so you nailed that one - there definitely are not millions of Baltimore residents trying to get $36k per year for free.

But if they're not getting almost $36k per year - which the article and study indicates is the maximum, not the average - how much assistance is the typical unemployed mother of 2 getting? Is there a reason why she wouldn't want or try to get the maximum? Even if she is only getting 75% of the maximum, that's $27k per year or $12.98 per hour after taxes, which works out to just over $15 per hour or $31.1k per year for taxpaying wage earners (happy to provide you with the calcs if you'd like). Either way, that kicks the living shit out of typical low skill wages, doesn't it?

Knowing that, is it not reasonable to say that welfare provides a significant disincentive to working?

Dude whats your problem? Mean spirited .. Give me a break touchy :/

First I could care less what a right wing funded organization writes. Especially one from any of the Koch brothers. I asked how many are getting it? Give me a number ? You two are something... Two peas in a pod.
Plus I have a policy to dismiss anything Tsmith writes and will do so until he makes good on the bet he made..

When I saw it was a Koch Brothers funded institute I just stopped reading it.. They bother have a political agenda.. corporation are not people. I have no problems with any of the programs. I would pay higher taxes for national health so everyone is covered and can get healthcare. There may be some people trying to get over on the system but I am sure its a small percent.. Hire more people and catch them and prosecute them. But then our Jails are awful crowded as we speak..

 

[tsmith7559]

Dude whats your problem? Mean spirited .. Give me a break touchy :/

First I could care less what a right wing funded organization writes. Especially one from any of the Koch brothers. I asked how many are getting it? Give me a number ? You two are something... Two peas in a pod.
Plus I have a policy to dismiss anything Tsmith writes and will do so until he makes good on the bet he made..

When I saw it was a Koch Brothers funded institute I just stopped reading it.. They bother have a political agenda.. corporation are not people. I have no problems with any of the programs. I would pay higher taxes for national health so everyone is covered and can get healthcare. There may be some people trying to get over on the system but I am sure its a small percent.. Hire more people and catch them and prosecute them. But then our Jails are awful crowded as we speak..

Then refrain from responding to me or better yet hit the "ignore"..thank u

 

[tinselwolverine]

Then refrain from responding to me or better yet hit the "ignore"..thank u

Hmmm...it looks to me that what you quoted Bob on was a response to somebody who wasn't you.

That said "refrain from responding to me or ignore me"-I don't think that's how this board is set up to work.

If I were to ignore every poster I ever responded to with a disagreement I would only be reading my own posts.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Hmmm...it looks to me that what you quoted Bob on was a response to somebody who wasn't you.

That said "refrain from responding to me or ignore me"-I don't think that's how this board is set up to work.

If I were to ignore every poster I ever responded to with a disagreement I would only be reading my own posts.

It's sort of set up that way. You add someone to your ignore list and you only see the contents of their posts when someone else quotes them.

You have to create your own criteria for ignoring. I recommend something other than disagreement. Like if they never say anything you find to be valuable and you never enjoy interacting with them. To me, that's a good reason to put someone on your ignore list.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It's sort of set up that way. You add someone to your ignore list and you only see the contents of their posts when someone else quotes them.

You have to create your own criteria for ignoring. I recommend something other than disagreement. Like if they never say anything you find to be valuable and you never enjoy interacting with them. To me, that's a good reason to put someone on your ignore list.

I was more commenting on the "refrain from responding to me or ignore me" sentiment.

Seems counter intuitive to me that someone who had that perspective would bother posting on a political message board knowing that there are posters with a wide and varying range of political opinions.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I was more commenting on the "refrain from responding to me or ignore me" sentiment.

Seems counter intuitive to me that someone who had that perspective would bother posting on a political message board knowing that there are posters with a wide and varying range of political opinions.

I see now.