Ownership Supports Caldwell

[inkfreq]

But ultimately will let the new GM decide to keep him or let him go.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...-ownership-backs-jim-caldwell-coach-gm-decide

It's an excellent position for the owner to take in my opinion. It's been no secret that Martha Firestone Ford like Caldwell and thinks he's done a good job. But it's also a good idea to let candidates know there is no mandate to keep him, and the right candidate will have the control he needs to build a winner.

 

[cheeno]

But ultimately will let the new GM decide to keep him or let him go.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...-ownership-backs-jim-caldwell-coach-gm-decide

It's an excellent position for the owner to take in my opinion. It's been no secret that Martha Firestone Ford like Caldwell and thinks he's done a good job. But it's also a good idea to let candidates know there is no mandate to keep him, and the right candidate will have the control he needs to build a winner.

Hey Ink. I had a different take in a thread I posted at about the same time. Mods feel free to close that one. One if it is up to the GM anyways why come out and say anything at all. As a GM you first order of business is contradicting the owners wishes and as a new coaching hire why go into a situation where the owner wanted to keep another guy. Typical Lions balls up of the situation, where at worst you can just sit on your hands and let the new guy work fresh. Sheldon White may be the only guy willing to work under this premise. Out with the old boss same as the new.

 

[inkfreq]

Whenever you are in search of new leaders in your company, statements are going to leak out, come out, hit the media, etc...

In business, this is a pretty standard way of handling the speculation and rumors. You say you support the coach, but ultimately, the decision rests with the new GM.

Why? Easy as can be.

You are sending the message that the GM will have the control. You won't fire the coach, and you won't demand he be retained. You have to say something, or let the speculation fuel it's own fire and take on it's own life, so you say the right thing.

At the end of the day, no one can form grudges, the media has been informed, and the rumor mill has been put to a grinding halt... all by saying not a whole lot.

 

[cheeno]

Talking out of both sides of you mouth to me Ink. We want this guy but hey if you fire him it's up to (and on) you. You can quell rumours by saying the GM is in control full stop.

 

[inkfreq]

It is a little of talking out of both sides of your mouth. And that's not uncommon in business.

Remember, 50% of what hits the media will be careful controlled statements written by the PR guys, and 50% was completely made up by the person who wrote it, sometimes with an educated guess behind it, and sometimes it's baseless bullshit.

The owner rarely says anything a good writer didn't come up with, and in this case, the owner didn't issue a press statement at all, "inside sources say"....

That's typically the work of the PR team if there is any truth behind it. And to be honest, we don't know there is any truth behind it, but it fits with what's been happening enough to be likely.

 

[biggunsbob]

Sweet another year of .500 or less is coming in 2016 :/

 

[cheeno]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9289/jim-caldwell

Rotoworld tends to think along my lines. That the GM they pick will also likely feel the same about retaining Caldwell. This certainly cuts the number of candidates. It's stupid to be married to a guy and also expect to change.

 

[inkfreq]

Sweet another year of .500 or less is coming in 2016 :/

Even assuming they retain Caldwell and make Sheldon White the GM, it's not fair to this team to assume .500 or less.

Let's be real, they can finish 7-9 this year with a win today.

They got robbed in Seattle. Yes yes, I know the age old arguments about not blaming the refs, but the reality is, when you punch it in with seconds left and the refs take it away from you on an obviously bad call... still being called the worst call of the year by many... you won a game, but didn't get the W.

With that alone they would be 8-8.

They should have beaten Green Bay a second time. We got outcoached, and there was a bad call on the final play, but it's not the type of game you repeat.

Should be 9-7. Not to play LKP here, but we really should have finished no worse than 9-7.

Take away 6 games of horrible offensive play calling, and you don't know where you end up. I truly feel that if Cooter is the coordinator week 1 against the Chargers instead of Lombardi, we don't blow up in that game and we hold on for a win.

So, 10-6 wouldn't have been unrealistic.

With Suh's dead money coming off the books next year, we have some flexibility (albeit not a lot) in free agency to improve the defense. And not a lot of players expected to leave.

We could be right back in the playoff hunt next year even with this coaching staff and with Sheldon White as GM. And I still feel hiring White is extremely unlikely.

 

[inkfreq]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9289/jim-caldwell

Rotoworld tends to think along my lines. That the GM they pick will also likely feel the same about retaining Caldwell. This certainly cuts the number of candidates. It's stupid to be married to a guy and also expect to change.

This falls neatly into that 50% "completely made up" category.

Rotoworld is a fun thing to read, but there is no source here.. no statement to go off of. They are speculating, and with no base from which to do so.

In fact, it's all based on the same Schefter report that an hour ago said ownership "supports" Caldwell, and has now grown to "they want to retain him". That is absolutely NOT the same thing.

This is the digital version of the telephone game we used to play in 1st grade.

 

[dubbsco]

I know it's crazy, but I think today's game is going to be a huge factor. If they win, Fords will see that 7-9 is not that bad, Caldwell was headed into the right direction, etc...

If they lose, it could put a bad taste in everyone's mouth to end the year.

 

[grandy]

Well, if they do keep Caldwell that will definitely make my decision on whether to watch the Lions or not going forward much easier.

 

[inkfreq]

I have to admit it... I wouldn't fire the guy if I were the Ford family or the new GM.

Managing people means you have to give them their time to grow, develop, be coached, etc...

He has a playoff year and an "almost" playoff year under his belt. Hell, until the ugly loss in the second game against GB, we were still alive in the hunt for the postseason. And we should have won that game and still been in the hunt going forward.

I don't like some of his calls. I don't like his late game non-aggression or his tendency to become complacent. I hate that he defended the laterals against one of the biggest arms in the game's history for a 61 yard hail mary.

But all in all, I haven't seen enough to fire the guy if I am the GM or owner. He loses two first round picks on his defensive line. He was given a team handicapped in the cap and personnel by his now former GM. And he's still putting together a pretty good stand in the final months.

I am not 100% sure I have any reason in that position to fire him. I believe, without knowing all the behind the scenes stuff and just going off his track record in Detroit, I would give him another year to see what he can do, especially if it might mean keeping Austin and Cooter around.

That's me. I am sure most people disagree with me on this one, and that's okay. But I've had to fire and counsel a lot of employees over the years, and this guy would be on an improvement plan for sure, but not fired if I were his boss.

I would be damned sure he understood my expectation for next year, and another 0-5 or 0-6 start, and I'd be looking for a new coach mid-season for sure.

 

[dubbsco]

The problem Ink, is that he's just a horrible in-game coach. His decision making on when to challenge, when not to challenge, CONSTANTLY having 10 guys on the field in key situations, I want to see someone in here who understands the game and isn't known for being just a player's coach.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Oh man, White and Caldwell. If they both stay I'll go full Cardinals mode. Martha liked Caldwell and thought a good HC at 0-5 and 1-7. Tells me a lot about her.

 

[inkfreq]

The problem Ink, is that he's just a horrible in-game coach. His decision making on when to challenge, when not to challenge, CONSTANTLY having 10 guys on the field in key situations, I want to see someone in here who understands the game and isn't known for being just a player's coach.

The 10 men on the field issue, and the fact it is STILL happening weekly, concerns me. If there was one reason I might fire the guy, that would be it.

Aside from that, if I thought there was a coach who could take this team all the way, I'd fire any coach there was to get him. Bar none. Belichick would be fired if I thought there was a better coach, and that's just the nature of the sport.

I think there may be a few better coaches out there this year. Pagano and Coughlin come to mind. I'm not arguing to retain him or to fire him. I'm just saying based on his track record alone, I wouldn't.... probably.

 

[dtroitlionsfan951]

The problem is that Jim Caldwell is not a head coach. He doesn't have an imprint on either side of the ball, so his success will hinge on hiring good coordinators and replacing said coordinators when they leave. If he doesn't find a good one then we are in a joe Lombardi situation all over again. What does Caldwell coach? Seriously? I'm curious? He's paid a lot of money to be a good guy and poorly manage football games.

 

[dtroitlionsfan951]

If new gm keeps Caldwell we've already failed, yet again.

 

[cheeno]

Chip Kelly had a playoff year and two almost playoff years too.

 

[inkfreq]

Chip Kelly had a playoff year and two almost playoff years too.

Correct. He was given a third year. Didn't go well. But there are still a lot of people questioning his firing.

I think you give Caldwell the third year. Obviously, if you can land a better coach.. you upgrade. That's football. Always get better.

But based on his record alone, I don't think he needs to be fired. He needs to improve in a lot of areas, but he hasn't been a train wreck.

 

[cheeno]

Correct. He was given a third year. Didn't go well. But there are still a lot of people questioning his firing.

I think you give Caldwell the third year. Obviously, if you can land a better coach.. you upgrade. That's football. Always get better.

But based on his record alone, I don't think he needs to be fired. He needs to improve in a lot of areas, but he hasn't been a train wreck.

Ladies and Gentlemen your 2015 Detroit Lions! At least they're not a trainwreck.