Patriots probably deflated balls

[brewer229]

Its a football.. The league should have both teams use the same ball like they did a few years back or just let players have it at any PSI they like as long as it is in-between a range agreed upon by the players union and owners.. I could care less what weight the balls are at.. Tackling, running and football skill and schemes have nothing to do with with the footballs.. Indy was butt hurt because they were getting smoked.. Don't get me started on how dirty the old time Steelers and Raiders were. But I guess that was good old fashion football used with stick-um, pain killers, cheap shots ect...

Isn't that what the current situation is? They agreed to have it between to ends, they went below it.

 

[zyxt9]

What a witch hunt. Did any haters actually read the report? They think Brady knew, blah, blah, blah, but only thing Brady is known to have done was look into the rules and ask the equipment guys to have the balls at 12.6 PSI, one tenth above the lower bound range. Then there are texts between two equipment guys, but nothing implicating Brady. And they admit they played a game with OVER-inflated balls, so much for the hater and his 1 in 5000+ odds BS.

Haters gonna Hate, I get it, but pinning this on Brady and making him the scapegoat is going beyond the realm of anything verifiable or remotely showing guilt. The report gives an OPINION with zero factual evidence to support it. In a court of law, it wouldn't stand a chance, but now it is in court of public opinion so he is auto-guilty because the report gave an opinion with no evidence.

 

[Mitchrapp]

What a witch hunt. Did any haters actually read the report? They think Brady knew, blah, blah, blah, but only thing Brady is known to have done was look into the rules and ask the equipment guys to have the balls at 12.6 PSI, one tenth above the lower bound range. Then there are texts between two equipment guys, but nothing implicating Brady. And they admit they played a game with OVER-inflated balls, so much for the hater and his 1 in 5000+ odds BS.

Haters gonna Hate, I get it, but pinning this on Brady and making him the scapegoat is going beyond the realm of anything verifiable or remotely showing guilt. The report gives an OPINION with zero factual evidence to support it. In a court of law, it wouldn't stand a chance, but now it is in court of public opinion so he is auto-guilty because the report gave an opinion with no evidence.

First, I don't give a shit about any of this. 2nd, you really think 2 guys that work for the Patriots decided to do this on their own? Someone had to know and that someone had to be Tom Brady.

 

[zyxt9]

Zero proof.

Is it possible they did it because Brady asked them too? Yes.
Is it possibke they did it because Bellicheck asked them too? Yes
Is it possible they acted on their own? Yes
Is it possibke there is another explanation? Yes
Do the Pats deserve a fine, penalty, etc.? Yes

Does Brady deserve to be the Fall Guy? Maybe, but there's no evidence.

Any suspension or fine put on Brady would be easily over-turned. Pats, sure...but the inference is it is all on Brady and that is yet to bear any justification.

I don't care what they do, just saying they have no case against Brady specifically. Granted, the NFL never cares about proof, so I won't be shocked if they do punish him and Bellicbeck, but it will never be legit based on facts, only opinions.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Zero proof.

Is it possible they did it because Brady asked them too? Yes.
Is it possibke they did it because Bellicheck asked them too? Yes
Is it possible they acted on their own? Yes
Is it possibke there is another explanation? Yes
Do the Pats deserve a fine, penalty, etc.? Yes

Does Brady deserve to be the Fall Guy? Maybe, but there's no evidence.

Any suspension or fine put on Brady would be easily over-turned. Pats, sure...but the inference is it is all on Brady and that is yet to bear any justification.

I don't care what they do, just saying they have no case against Brady specifically. Granted, the NFL never cares about proof, so I won't be shocked if they do punish him and Bellicbeck, but it will never be legit based on facts, only opinions.

The NFL is not a court of law. Probable might be good enough..and correct, proof is not needed. Maybe they do 4, argue it to 2 games. Or 2 argued down to one. Or just a 25k fine..

 

[tinselwolverine]

The NFL is not a court of law. Probable might be good enough..and correct, proof is not needed. Maybe they do 4, argue it to 2 games. Or 2 argued down to one. Or just a 25k fine..

Yeah again, at the time it happened, I thought I heard that the 25k fine is the official decided upon penalty for this specific transgression if it actually happened.

Now baby I'm wrong, but if the 25 k fine is in the books as the penalty for this, but with all the rest of this "moving the goalposts" bullshit?

If 25k is actually the penalty in the rulebook, then that's what the penalty in the rulebook is.

If that's the case and that's not enough, then make the penalty worse. But they made the penalty in baseball for PED worse than it used to be. But don't go moving the goalpost arbitrarily.

 

[brewer229]

Zero proof.

Is it possible they did it because Brady asked them too? Yes.
Is it possibke they did it because Bellicheck asked them too? Yes
Is it possible they acted on their own? Yes
Is it possibke there is another explanation? Yes
Do the Pats deserve a fine, penalty, etc.? Yes

Does Brady deserve to be the Fall Guy? Maybe, but there's no evidence.

Any suspension or fine put on Brady would be easily over-turned. Pats, sure...but the inference is it is all on Brady and that is yet to bear any justification.

I don't care what they do, just saying they have no case against Brady specifically. Granted, the NFL never cares about proof, so I won't be shocked if they do punish him and Bellicbeck, but it will never be legit based on facts, only opinions.

I think it comes down to this, what does the NFL want:
The preponderance of the evidence or beyond a reasonable doubt. I view it as the former. To me it's more likely than not he had knowledge and probably even initiated the request.

Tom is just not believable. He talks how he had no knowledge, but yet the day the news broke and a few after he's calling one of the guys 6 times, a guy he hadn't called in over at least 6 months.

It just isn't logical to expect two random guys to do this on their own. Also it would be interesting to see if Brady showered the other two equipment assistants (the ones not involved in this) with autographs, cash, plane tickets and basketball tickets.

I just really don't see how anyone could think that Brady had no knowledge what so ever prior to this being broken.

 

[manchild98]

We'll see how the NFL handles this. The Pats open the NFL season at home against the Steelers on Thursday night football. Do they suspend him and put the focus on that for opening night in the NFL??? After the Steelers they play the Bills and the Jags and then they have a bye week. So if you are going to suspend him you might as well suspend him for 2 or 3 games...make it seem like you are sending a louder message.

 

[zyxt9]

I think it comes down to this, what does the NFL want:
The preponderance of the evidence or beyond a reasonable doubt. I view it as the former. To me it's more likely than not he had knowledge and probably even initiated the request.

Tom is just not believable. He talks how he had no knowledge, but yet the day the news broke and a few after he's calling one of the guys 6 times, a guy he hadn't called in over at least 6 months.

It just isn't logical to expect two random guys to do this on their own. Also it would be interesting to see if Brady showered the other two equipment assistants (the ones not involved in this) with autographs, cash, plane tickets and basketball tickets.

I just really don't see how anyone could think that Brady had no knowledge what so ever prior to this being broken.

Where is the preponderence of evidence vs Brady? Look, I'm not saying he didn't have anything to do with it, I'm just saying the evidence is lacking. If he requested it, he covered his tracks pretty well. No secret recordings, no texts or emails, nothing is documented other than his request to have the rules at the ready in case refs questioned why balls were only at 12.6 PSI.

I get you dislike Brady. I agree he would have noticed the under-inflation during the game like he noticed he was throwing bricks in over-inflation game. Notice how no one is bitching about that, yet over-inflation is equally a rules violation. He didn't request thise balls to be over-inflated, yet it still happened, right? This gives him plausible deniability. He didn't over or under inflate the balls himself, there is zero evidence unless one of the assistants says something, but they aren't to my knowledge. So only evidence is that he had to of realized the under-inflation. Well, true...but in the over-inflation game no one looked at the balls until after the game...so now people are claiming in the under-inflation game they should have been checked in-game.

So it should be $50k fine, $25 for both the admitted to over-inflated game and the AFCCG. All of that should be assessed against the Pats org. There is far more evidence providing plausible deniability by Brady. He can stick by the 12.6 request and fact the over-inflated balls were not verified until post-game so why would he have requested the balls to be checked in the under-inflated game during it. Science has proven the reduced performance of under-inflated balls and Brady actually did as well or better after halftime, so any performance improvement by under-inflated balls is debateable during that game.

Like I said, it is a witch hunt with the Haters fully up-in-arms with their torches and pitchforks because the media is driving an anti-Brady campaign....because that generates far more revenue for them and allows for prolonged storylines throughout the season, whereas the assistants being the culprits only generates a blip on the radar.

Gullibility with no analytical thought is a societal problem. The media is playing everybody to make more money, that's what this comes down to.

 

[zyxt9]

We'll see how the NFL handles this. The Pats open the NFL season at home against the Steelers on Thursday night football. Do they suspend him and put the focus on that for opening night in the NFL??? After the Steelers they play the Bills and the Jags and then they have a bye week. So if you are going to suspend him you might as well suspend him for 2 or 3 games...make it seem like you are sending a louder message.

I would be shocked by that. His first rules violation that has lack of concrete evidence and only thing known is he should have known. Is there a rule saying he has to inform the refs if he is suspicious of the ball pressure? Was there a procedure in place where refs woukd be able to stop the game and check the pressure when a QB questions it?

My guess is a fine wrongfully given to Brady for 1st time offense, along with new procedure in place for checking pressures or something. NFL is just as culpable since it is the refs job to check and monitor air pressure before and during games. Pats vs Steelers with all this hype is better money for networks and NFL if there is no suspension. Hate fuels the money machine as much, potentially more (think WWF) than love. NFL and Networks wanted the investigation to be completed after the Draft during the downturn to keep the NFL money engine pumping during the slowdown. Why else would the report take so long?

People need to recognize all that is going on despite media trying to hyperfocus the attention on Brady, because when the aqudience is hyper-focused is when the magicians are able to do their tricks. If you look behind the curtain, the illusion is removed and where's the fun (read: MONEY) in that???

 

[brewer229]

Where is the preponderence of evidence vs Brady? Look, I'm not saying he didn't have anything to do with it, I'm just saying the evidence is lacking. If he requested it, he covered his tracks pretty well. No secret recordings, no texts or emails, nothing is documented other than his request to have the rules at the ready in case refs questioned why balls were only at 12.6 PSI.

I get you dislike Brady. I agree he would have noticed the under-inflation during the game like he noticed he was throwing bricks in over-inflation game. Notice how no one is bitching about that, yet over-inflation is equally a rules violation. He didn't request thise balls to be over-inflated, yet it still happened, right? This gives him plausible deniability. He didn't over or under inflate the balls himself, there is zero evidence unless one of the assistants says something, but they aren't to my knowledge. So only evidence is that he had to of realized the under-inflation. Well, true...but in the over-inflation game no one looked at the balls until after the game...so now people are claiming in the under-inflation game they should have been checked in-game.

So it should be $50k fine, $25 for both the admitted to over-inflated game and the AFCCG. All of that should be assessed against the Pats org. There is far more evidence providing plausible deniability by Brady. He can stick by the 12.6 request and fact the over-inflated balls were not verified until post-game so why would he have requested the balls to be checked in the under-inflated game during it. Science has proven the reduced performance of under-inflated balls and Brady actually did as well or better after halftime, so any performance improvement by under-inflated balls is debateable during that game.

Like I said, it is a witch hunt with the Haters fully up-in-arms with their torches and pitchforks because the media is driving an anti-Brady campaign....because that generates far more revenue for them and allows for prolonged storylines throughout the season, whereas the assistants being the culprits only generates a blip on the radar.

Gullibility with no analytical thought is a societal problem. The media is playing everybody to make more money, that's what this comes down to.

I have no strong feelings towards Brady or the Patriots. I don't get overly emotionally involved in the individual players on any teams. You seem to have a far more vested interest in protecting Brady and his reputation than anyone else.

I haven't seen this science has proven the reduced performance of under-inflated balls. I've seen some experts saying under inflated can be a benefit:

Scientist Ainissa Ramirez, author of “Newton’s Football: The Science Behind America’s Game,” agrees that “grippiness” is the big benefit of a slightly inflated football. “If a ball is underinflated, it’s easier to throw, it’s easier to catch.”

"The effect on the flight of ball due to a ball that is 2 psi low is effectively zero - so small that you'd be hard pressed to measure a change with very sensitive equipment, and less than the natural variation between balls,"

The outcome of how he played is irrelevant to the discussion. It is all about the intent. It is also fair to note Brady refused to turn over his cell phone, which is in his right, but to say well he isn't guilty because of lack of text messages to me is foolish.

The guy leading the investigation, who has more experience and knowledge of the situation than either of us, stated it is more likely than not he knew and was part of it. That is what matters.

So i'm siding with the lead investigator and what logically makes sense. I really haven't ever sensed the media as Anti-Brady. But I get defenders like to brush of anything negative as "Haters hating"....

 

[tonyballs]

Brady refused to give up any of his emails or texts. The guy is guilty as fuck lol.

 

[tonyballs]

Calling this a "haters gonna hate" case is a joke. Get real, boys

 

[jared]

Isn't this type of rules violation built into the by laws of the NFL?

I thought it was a 25k team fine and we all move on.

 

[tonyballs]

Isn't this type of rules violation built into the by laws of the NFL?

I thought it was a 25k team fine and we all move on.

They should move on, but they won't. Know why? Brady lied. If the guy just came out and said "this is the way i like my footballs, i'm sorry and it won't happen again" then this all goes away. He made this a mess....nobody else. Now he has to live with it.

And for the record. I'm a huge Brady fan but he's acting like a fkn dousche

 

[Mitchrapp]

Isn't this type of rules violation built into the by laws of the NFL?

I thought it was a 25k team fine and we all move on.

It might be that but with Goodell you never know. And honestly, I'm not sure I'd care.

 

[zyxt9]

I have no strong feelings towards Brady or the Patriots. I don't get overly emotionally involved in the individual players on any teams. You seem to have a far more vested interest in protecting Brady and his reputation than anyone else.

I haven't seen this science has proven the reduced performance of under-inflated balls. I've seen some experts saying under inflated can be a benefit:

Scientist Ainissa Ramirez, author of ?Newton?s Football: The Science Behind America?s Game,? agrees that ?grippiness? is the big benefit of a slightly inflated football. ?If a ball is underinflated, it?s easier to throw, it?s easier to catch.?

"The effect on the flight of ball due to a ball that is 2 psi low is effectively zero - so small that you'd be hard pressed to measure a change with very sensitive equipment, and less than the natural variation between balls,"

The outcome of how he played is irrelevant to the discussion. It is all about the intent. It is also fair to note Brady refused to turn over his cell phone, which is in his right, but to say well he isn't guilty because of lack of text messages to me is foolish.

The guy leading the investigation, who has more experience and knowledge of the situation than either of us, stated it is more likely than not he knew and was part of it. That is what matters.

So i'm siding with the lead investigator and what logically makes sense. I really haven't ever sensed the media as Anti-Brady. But I get defenders like to brush of anything negative as "Haters hating"....

LMAO...so the lead investigator provides zero evidence but gives his opinion as "more likely than not" and you slam down a guilty verdict. That is pathetic. He knows more info, but still has zero proof and that is good enough??? People like you deserve to be investigated similarly. Why don't you ask Ink what that experience is like and then give us your re-stated belief that it is acceptible to pass a guilty verdict when there is only opinions and nothing of actual evidence yet reasonable doubt and plausible deniability are readily available.

 

[tonyballs]

LMAO...so the lead investigator provides zero evidence but gives his opinion as "more likely than not" and you slam down a guilty verdict. That is pathetic. He knows more info, but still has zero proof and that is good enough??? People like you deserve to be investigated similarly. Why don't you ask Ink what that experience is like and then give us your re-stated belief that it is acceptible to pass a guilty verdict when there is only opinions and nothing of actual evidence yet reasonable doubt and plausible deniability are readily available.

Whoa whoa whoa. NFLN gave the explanation of "more likely than not". This Wells guy isn't assuming anything. Wells is 100% sure that Brady knew something foul was going on..

 

[zyxt9]

They should move on, but they won't. Know why? Brady lied. If the guy just came out and said "this is the way i like my footballs, i'm sorry and it won't happen again" then this all goes away. He made this a mess....nobody else. Now he has to live with it.

And for the record. I'm a huge Brady fan but he's acting like a fkn dousche

Absolutely agree he is being a douche, but he had the right to not hand over his phone and emails. Anyone who is ever investigated for anything should behave similarly. If you want personal stuff, get a court order. Can't get one? Too bad, build your case some other way.

They must have had some ability to see communications though, based on previous info about number of texts between Brady and the assistants that was mentioned. Maybe they got that from the assistant's phones? Regardless, no proof was found from those.

Seriously, if any who are stating he is guilty were investigated in similar manner and found guilty in court of public opinion, you wouldn't think it was justifiable the way this is playing out.

While I'm also of the opinion he knew to some extent, there is nothing concrete. Maybe it will develop further and we find out he was behind it, until more proof is shown he deserves benefit of doubt same as anyone else. That's all I'm saying, the investigator and NFL just need to have SOME proof beyond mere opinion and conbecture. They currently have nothing like that.

 

[zyxt9]

Whoa whoa whoa. NFLN gave the explanation of "more likely than not". This Wells guy isn't assuming anything. Wells is 100% sure that Brady knew something foul was going on..

I honestly didn't see it. Please elaborate on the proof, that's all I have been saying. When the proof is provided then move forward with punishment phase. There was nothing in the report I saw that equated to proof, but I have not seen everything.