Patriots probably deflated balls

[tonyballs]

Absolutely agree he is being a douche, but he had the right to not hand over his phone and emails. Anyone who is ever investigated for anything should behave similarly. If you want personal stuff, get a court order. Can't get one? Too bad, build your case some other way.

They must have had some ability to see communications though, based on previous info about number of texts between Brady and the assistants that was mentioned. Maybe they got that from the assistant's phones? Regardless, no proof was found from those.

Seriously, if any who are stating he is guilty were investigated in similar manner and found guilty in court of public opinion, you wouldn't think it was justifiable the way this is playing out.

While I'm also of the opinion he knew to some extent, there is nothing concrete. Maybe it will develop further and we find out he was behind it, until more proof is shown he deserves benefit of doubt same as anyone else. That's all I'm saying, the investigator and NFL just need to have SOME proof beyond mere opinion and conbecture. They currently have nothing like that.

Hey, man. I'm not calling for his head whatsoever, but he didn't co-operate. I get the whole privacy thing, but if you feel that you're not guilty then you should hand over your shit and free your name.
I think they got him by the balls and they're waiting for a response from Brady. I really do. To me, it seems like they're giving him the opportunity.
This really sucks though. He's the best QB to ever play the game. Every team takes certain steps to better themselves in the long run. Being illegal or legal. It's part of the game, they all do it, but these idiots get caught. Why? Because they don't give a fuck...it's obvious.

 

[tonyballs]

I honestly didn't see it. Please elaborate on the proof, that's all I have been saying. When the proof is provided then move forward with punishment phase. There was nothing in the report I saw that equated to proof, but I have not seen everything.

I'm with ya on that. When I first read "more likely than not", I laughed, but the boys on NFLN made sure that you can't read it like that. I forget the whole explanation, but they made it clear that the Wells Report was saying that Brady is 100% guilty. Kinda confusing for sure...lol.

 

[inkfreq]

There is no doubt that what they have on Brady would not stand up in a court of law. Just no way.

However, an employer is not a court of law, and there is no burden of proof. It's the same reason an employee can file a sexual harassment complaint against another employee, and the second employee can be suspended or fired based strictly on the word of the accuser.

In cases like these, the NFL doesn't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Brady did anything. They can show there was a probability that he did, and that's enough to suspend, fine, punish, etc...

 

[brewer229]

LMAO...so the lead investigator provides zero evidence but gives his opinion as "more likely than not" and you slam down a guilty verdict. That is pathetic. He knows more info, but still has zero proof and that is good enough??? People like you deserve to be investigated similarly. Why don't you ask Ink what that experience is like and then give us your re-stated belief that it is acceptible to pass a guilty verdict when there is only opinions and nothing of actual evidence yet reasonable doubt and plausible deniability are readily available.

This isn't a criminal case, you don't need concrete evidence. It doesn't need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Just more likely than not. There is enough circumstantial evidence to support he had some knowledge of what was going on.

Brady is avoiding this, if innocent, he is not doing himself any favors.
He should come out and show he routinely gives autographs to these type of people, routinely buys plane tickets, and gives cash. Explain why he called the dude multiple times the days after.

What benefit would these two low level employees have for doing it on their own, without any direction from above?

 

[inkfreq]

Bear in mind, the collective bargaining agreement specifies that ALL players must cooperate with any investigation into on the field wrong doing.

Brady can be suspended, technically for life if Goodell so chooses, simply for refusing to cooperate. The Wells report shows he not only didn't cooperate with a cheating investigation, but intentionally tried to get others to refuse to cooperate as well.

He could be out the door for good, but I strongly doubt Goodell will go that far.

 

[inkfreq]

Absolutely agree he is being a douche, but he had the right to not hand over his phone and emails. Anyone who is ever investigated for anything should behave similarly. If you want personal stuff, get a court order. Can't get one? Too bad, build your case some other way.

They must have had some ability to see communications though, based on previous info about number of texts between Brady and the assistants that was mentioned. Maybe they got that from the assistant's phones? Regardless, no proof was found from those.

Seriously, if any who are stating he is guilty were investigated in similar manner and found guilty in court of public opinion, you wouldn't think it was justifiable the way this is playing out.

While I'm also of the opinion he knew to some extent, there is nothing concrete. Maybe it will develop further and we find out he was behind it, until more proof is shown he deserves benefit of doubt same as anyone else. That's all I'm saying, the investigator and NFL just need to have SOME proof beyond mere opinion and conbecture. They currently have nothing like that.

Not true at all. He has the right to not turn over anything, and the NFL has the right to suspend him for it.

The CBA calls for player cooperation into any on the field cheating investigation. This isn't a cop... he can choose to say no, and Goodell can choose to say you're out of the game Touchdown Tommy.

Too many people confuse the American Legal System with private corporate policy. The NFL is under no obligation to behave like a criminal investigator, because the players agreed to these policies in labor contract.

 

[tinselwolverine]

He should come out and show he routinely gives autographs to these type of people, routinely buys plane tickets, and gives cash. Explain why he called the dude multiple times the days after.

What benefit would these two low level employees have for doing it on their own, without any direction from above?

Tom Brady was attending a previously scheduled event at some educational institute in Salem Massachusetts yesterday, that happened during the Anderson Cooper show on CNN.

The show included a partial telecast of the event during which Jim Grey asked questions that Brady for the most part didn't answer, but said he would address fairly soon.

Cooper was hosting a panel discussion that included Rachel Nichols and Brady's agent.

Nichols corroborated that football stars giving away autographed memorabilia to support workers within their organization was indeed a commonplace occurrence across the NFL. Nothing was said about airline tickets or anything else.

The agent said that all of the texts from Brady were because Brady was aware that these guys had suddenly been thrust into the public spotlight, a situation unusual for them, and Brady was concerned, because of that, with how they were handling it emotionally.

 

[zyxt9]

This isn't a criminal case, you don't need concrete evidence. It doesn't need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Just more likely than not. There is enough circumstantial evidence to support he had some knowledge of what was going on.

Brady is avoiding this, if innocent, he is not doing himself any favors.
He should come out and show he routinely gives autographs to these type of people, routinely buys plane tickets, and gives cash. Explain why he called the dude multiple times the days after.

What benefit would these two low level employees have for doing it on their own, without any direction from above?

I have seen more evidence to support plausible deniability than I have seen evidence that suggests proof. Never said it was a criminal case, but you cannot subject someone to discipline/fines/suspensions solely because someone THINKS you did something or is of the 100% OPINION that you did something, no matter how much of an investigative expert they might be. SOME miniscule piece of proof has to exist for the company to administer anything greater than a warning and notation on a record card. Theories, ideas, and public opinion are not equal to the tiniest bit of proof, for which I'm still waiting to see an example of from this case.

NFLN apparently went through an elaborate exercise on it, but I have not seen that yet. If someone has the clip, I'll gladly watch it. But if they only use words like "feel/belief/opinion/perception/etc." then that is not something any person should be convicted on even in court of public opinion. People need to demand more than that, otherwise it's just a witch hunt. Something needs to be there to overcome the plausible deniability factor.

 

[zyxt9]

And still no one is attacking the admitted over-inflation game. Why is that? That one has evidence from the individuals involved statements...yet...chirp, chirp, chirp. If the under-inflation game deserves something, so does the over-inflation game. Am I the only one who gets that??? The proof is right there for the league to penalize the Pats (read, NOT Brady...but the Pats org) without any further proof required. Instead everything is about the under-inflated game because they are getting far more money out of Brady potentially being guilty. Both events should have the same degree of penalty, since Brady was aware during the game and continued to play with the over-inflated ball and didn't report it to the refs.

This is where the NFL has a degree of burden themselves. Was there a procedure in place by which a QB could notify the officials that a ball was potentially over/under inflated? If not, and the refs failed to recognize the issue, there is culpability on the part of the league as well.

Many things need to be fixed with all of this, but the league's hands are not the cleanest either.

 

[TheVictors]

Jake Plummer was on radio here yesterday and his take was hilarious and spot on!

He said if Brady is a "cheater" then every OL in the NFL on every play is a cheater too. He said almost every Kicker and Punter mess with the balls they use and that slightly deflating the ball is no different than licking your fingers or wearing sticky gloves. He said Brady should just own up and say, "Yeah I had the ball boys deflate the ball a bit because I like it better that way."

He went on ...it was hilarious. Especially making fun of all the complete bullshit "science" about air pressure and temperatures, etc.

Too funny ...this story is so gay and watching ESPN cover Brady and the topic is like ET covering something juicy on Leonardo DiCaprio or someone...

 

[tinselwolverine]

Jake Plummer was on radio here yesterday and his take was hilarious and spot on!

He said if Brady is a "cheater" then every OL in the NFL on every play is a cheater too.

I was thinking this exact same thing. Lineman hold and hope they get away with it. When a rusher comes close to a punter the punter flops and hopes he draws a penalty. Quarterbacks ground the football and hope they get away with it.

Soccer players flop, and basketball defenders flop and hope they draw a charge.

Derek Jeter pretends he got hit by a pitch and runs down to first base.

Miguel Cabrera laughs and jokes with opposing players; really he's just trying to get any information about signs were pitching or strategy that he can.

So we'll see.

 

[TheVictors]

Plummer's funniest line was something along the lines of .."you don't think Doug Flutie deflated the ball a bit?! He had too, dude has small hands ....but he still shredded defenses for years in this league! Drew Brees too, he has small hands"

 

[inkfreq]

I still say it's a non-issue.

If "under inflation" is all you have on a guy, you don't really have much.

Did he break the rules? Probably. How many other QBs over the years have done the same? I'd bet money that more than half the balls thrown every year are either over or under pressure.

The guy still went into the Super Bowl, with the footballs under close scrutiny, and won. If he under inflated them it's clear he did it for comfort and not because it's the only way he can throw a football or something.

Reminds me a lot of "Spygate". Everyone said "Oh, that's how they win... they cheat and tape other teams defensive signals". But they then get busted, stop doing it, and rattle off a 16-0 season.

And no one bothers to talk about the player of the week.. the guy that every NFL team tries to sign to it's practice squad every week who used to play for this week's opponent, who is about to explain the terminology, hand signals, and play calls to us in detail.

That ain't cheating, but knowing hand signals for defenses is all the difference between champion and chump.

The only advantage I can see the Pats may have gained is their amazingly low fumble rate. fivethirthyeight.com has an article on that today, and it would seem there is something out of the ordinary about the rate at which they fumble.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Jake Plummer was on radio here yesterday and his take was hilarious and spot on!

He said if Brady is a "cheater" then every OL in the NFL on every play is a cheater too. He said almost every Kicker and Punter mess with the balls they use and that slightly deflating the ball is no different than licking your fingers or wearing sticky gloves. He said Brady should just own up and say, "Yeah I had the ball boys deflate the ball a bit because I like it better that way."

He went on ...it was hilarious. Especially making fun of all the complete bullshit "science" about air pressure and temperatures, etc.

Too funny ...this story is so gay and watching ESPN cover Brady and the topic is like ET covering something juicy on Leonardo DiCaprio or someone...

He should come out and say that. But why hasn't here? If it's no big deal why is he keeping quiet?

 

[TheVictors]

That's the 'patriots way' mitchrapp

 

[zyxt9]

Whoa whoa whoa. NFLN gave the explanation of "more likely than not". This Wells guy isn't assuming anything. Wells is 100% sure that Brady knew something foul was going on..

This isn't a criminal case, you don't need concrete evidence. It doesn't need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Just more likely than not. There is enough circumstantial evidence to support he had some knowledge of what was going on.

Brady is avoiding this, if innocent, he is not doing himself any favors.
He should come out and show he routinely gives autographs to these type of people, routinely buys plane tickets, and gives cash. Explain why he called the dude multiple times the days after.

What benefit would these two low level employees have for doing it on their own, without any direction from above?

Yeah, but the NFL standard is something about 'propensity of evidence'. Heard something about they want 51% certainty but report only gives them 50.1% feeling of certainty. The whole thing is a joke at that point, trying to create wiggle room for why they won't do much if anything. Meanwhile the networks keep the cash machine rolling into next week at a minimum, and hope another 'big' story will happen in the meantime. Lol

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yeah, but the NFL standard is something about 'propensity of evidence'. Heard something about they want 51% certainty but report only gives them 50.1% feeling of certainty. The whole thing is a joke at that point, trying to create wiggle room for why they won't do much if anything. Meanwhile the networks keep the cash machine rolling into next week at a minimum, and hope another 'big' story will happen in the meantime. Lol

Wait..are you telling me the networks talk about something ad nauseum? Nooooo. I'm shocked. Lol.

 

[zyxt9]

That's the entire point. If they focused only on the assistants, how much would the audience take? Put the focus on Brady and suddenly they have achieved the ad nauseum recipe for success and money.

 

[Mitchrapp]

That's the entire point. If they focused only on the assistants, how much would the audience take? Put the focus on Brady and suddenly they have achieved the ad nauseum recipe for success and money.

Nothing new. Like the Yankees, Red Sox, LA on ESPN. Like right now in the PGA it's the young Jordan Spieth and the tiresome Tiger Woods. Master is the perfect example..Tigers Woods tied for 17, the older, with psoriatic arthritis Phil Mickelson tied for 2nd. Hardly anything about Phil but Tiger..fuck yeah. Just the way it is..

 

[Mitchrapp]

Nothing new. Like the Yankees, Red Sox, LA on ESPN. Like right now in the PGA it's the young Jordan Spieth and the tiresome Tiger Woods. Master is the perfect example..Tigers Woods tied for 17, the older, with psoriatic arthritis Phil Mickelson tied for 2nd. Hardly anything about Phil but Tiger..fuck yeah. Just the way it is..

EDIT: Maybe ESPN has changed, been 5 years since I turned them on.