Penn St facing unprecedented penalties

[redandguilty]

They also didn't get involved when ND broke OSHA laws and a student died as a result.

They've never done this. It's unprecedented.

 

[uofm06marine]

Penn State is very controlling of their students and alumnus. There are reports that when the Freeh report was read live on TV, Penn State changed the channels to their public broadcasting so noone could hear the results.

Also, this video demonstrates to me that those people obviously still don't get it.

http://widget.newsinc.com/_cfvp/pla...d_magazines_under_fire_3vNj3F1sI4Xee5tWleTakJ

 

[redandguilty]

I think the catch stems from how awful this cover up is. The NCAA doesn't have to follow their rules in this case because Penn State wouldn't dare sue them.

 

[Michchamp]

They also didn't get involved when ND broke OSHA laws and a student died as a result.

They've never done this. It's unprecedented.

but that wasn't a systemic problem that continued for years demonstrating a complete lack of institutional control over the football program.

again... Penn State football benefited from keeping this thing buried for over a decade. It protected the reputation of Paterno, the school... kept the fans coming to games, kept the recruiting trail open. Yes, Sandusky's actions, and the failure to report them to law enforcement were criminal conduct... but it was criminal activity directly related to the Program.

 

[redandguilty]

but that wasn't a systemic problem that continued for years demonstrating a complete lack of institutional control over the football program.

again... Penn State football benefited from keeping this thing buried for over a decade. It protected the reputation of Paterno, the school... kept the fans coming to games, kept the recruiting trail open. Yes, Sandusky's actions, and the failure to report them to law enforcement were criminal conduct... but it was criminal activity directly related to the Program.

Of course I get that...but again, there is no specific NCAA rule violation there. It is a severe violation of the spirit of the NCAA (as is the ND case) but there is no actual rule addressing it...so they're making up a new process stretching some of the catchall language. What happened at Penn State is also a severe violation of the spirit of the Big Ten and the CIC and the AAU; probably any organization that Penn State is a part of.

 

[Michchamp]

wait... what are you arguing? that it was unprecedented, or that it didn't violate any NCAA regulation?

 

[redandguilty]

wait... what are you arguing? that it was unprecedented, or that it didn't violate any NCAA regulation?

2 things:

1:
I was arguing that looking back at NCAA penalties from the past, there was no regulation here that was applicable. I think this unprecedented way of handing power to the president for whatever punishment he sees fit (it has been clarified that it's the method, not the actual punishment that's unprecedented) validates that position. I nailed it.

2:
I don't think it's the right thing to do either. What is the goal? Obviously not to punish Sandusky. This is either about the cover up (acts known only to a few people no longer part of the program) or the enablers, the football culture that allowed this to be possible. If it's the culture we're supposed to want to punish we'd better look in the mirror a little bit. I don't believe the average Penn State fan loves football any more than the average Michigan fan. The Ann Arbor police had Bo's number; Bo said so in Lasting Lessons. I don't think there were crimes covered up, but that's because we got lucky with Bo. (Who we only hired after Paterno turned us down.) It's not because our fans were somehow different or less guilty of enabling such a culture. Bo said players called the town "Bo Arbor".

 

[redandguilty]

If the goal is actually to change the culture that motivated and enabled the cover up, you have to act more broadly than just at Penn State.

 

[Michlady]

behavior f the administration

psu also facing some fine from dept. of education
14 years of clery act violations

 

[Michlady]

not reading nwhile thread the ncaa looking at behavior of the institution not sport specificppsince nivember there was taok about this

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yeah I just heard no death penalty but the sanctions may end up being worse because they will last several years.

Nothing is worse than the death penalty. DP means no football players and starting from scratch. It'd take years to get back to competitive football. Years and years.

 

[TheVictors]

Is there a substantive distinction between the 'death penalty' and sanctions just short of it, in terms of crippling a program? PSU football is screwed for a while.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Is there a substantive distinction between the 'death penalty' and sanctions just short of it, in terms of crippling a program? PSU football is screwed for a while.

But they play, good players are still there. Nothing worse than having 0 players and winning 0 games for awhile.

 

[redandguilty]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/22/us/pe...e/index.html?hpt=hp_t1&sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

"If I were Penn State or any other school and were given both options, I'd pick the death penalty," the source said, adding the range of sanctions "is well beyond what has been done in the past" and "far worse than closing the program for a year."

 

[Mitchrapp]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/22/us/pe...e/index.html?hpt=hp_t1&sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

"If I were Penn State or any other school and were given both options, I'd pick the death penalty," the source said, adding the range of sanctions "is well beyond what has been done in the past" and "far worse than closing the program for a year."

That's because most people don't know what a DP could do. Check out SMU after they came back.

 

[Michchamp]

That's because most people don't know what a DP could do. Check out SMU after they came back.

I think SMU was a unique situation. the faculty rose in revolt to really take athletics down a peg. they moved to a smaller stadium after that. plus they were a small school to begin with. their program up until that point was only competitive because they were paying players outright - or rather, their alumni network of sleazy rich Texans was paying players. they didn't have the resources to compete with bigger schools (like Texas/Texas A&M or... Penn State).

so I don't think the sanctions SMU received would necessarily be a "death penalty" for Penn State. that being said, it's still hard to imagine anything being worse than a year without a team. Doubtful Penn St. could retain enough scholarship players through a year suspension to recover from that. That's why SMU's year suspension ended up being 2-years. they voluntarily cancelled year 2 because they had a team made up of freshmen and walk-ons at that point

 

[Mitchrapp]

I think SMU was a unique situation. the faculty rose in revolt to really take athletics down a peg. they moved to a smaller stadium after that. plus they were a small school to begin with. their program up until that point was only competitive because they were paying players outright - or rather, their alumni network of sleazy rich Texans was paying players. they didn't have the resources to compete with bigger schools (like Texas/Texas A&M or... Penn State).

so I don't think the sanctions SMU received would necessarily be a "death penalty" for Penn State. that being said, it's still hard to imagine anything being worse than a year without a team. Doubtful Penn St. could retain enough scholarship players through a year suspension to recover from that. That's why SMU's year suspension ended up being 2-years. they voluntarily cancelled year 2 because they had a team made up of freshmen and walk-ons at that point

That's the thing. Start over again is awfully tough. Either way their team will suffer and they should.

 

[redandguilty]

looks like this guy would like to file suit, I just think it would be too much bad publicity for Penn State leadership to pursue it

http://michaelbucknerlaw.wordpress....f-ncaa-sanctions-against-penn-state/#comments

 

[Michchamp]

looks like this guy would like to file suit, I just think it would be too much bad publicity for Penn State leadership to pursue it

http://michaelbucknerlaw.wordpress....f-ncaa-sanctions-against-penn-state/#comments

OOOH!! Look some bush-league lawyer sees a chance for free publicity!

unfortunately for Mr. Buckner, IF Penn St even decides to sue the NCAA, they probably going to hire a large, experienced law firm to represent them.

LOL at the comments. This is going to backfire on him. Reminds me of that dumbass webdesign guy from ohio who offered $2000 on twitter to anyone who hurt one of our recruits.

welcome to the internet, amateurs.

 

[wheels002]

From what a few people have said the NCAA can do this if an act is bad enough they can invoke special powers which they never have before.

The thing is its all spin much like politics 2 different lawyers can read the same thing and claim it means opposite things. The whole reason Penn st didnt report the violations is to protect Paterno and the football program and anything that involves the football program involves the NCAA in my opinion. I agree that this is a slippery slope but I believe Penn St deserves sanctions and I hope they wipe Paterno out of the record book.