Stafford to Dallas?

[inkfreq]

2009 and 2010 was a rebuild and Stafford hurt.
2011 and 2014 double digit wins

2012, 2013 and 2015 many many many injuries.

Really? The injuries card again?

We're 13th int he league in terms of the number of injuries, and yet we're in dead last.

By the way, Green Bay is ranked #1 in terms of number of injuries and how significant they are.... 1st place.

The injury card stops working when you're middle of the road, and in last, and a division opponent has the worst injuries and is still in 1st place.

 

[LKP]

Really? The injuries card again?

We're 13th int he league in terms of the number of injuries, and yet we're in dead last.

By the way, Green Bay is ranked #1 in terms of number of injuries and how significant they are.... 1st place.

The injury card stops working when you're middle of the road, and in last, and a division opponent has the worst injuries and is still in 1st place.

That list was beyond dumb. Based on not counting IR for the rest of the year, Lions are in the top 5 in injuries right now for people actually hurt in the first 6 games. the whole point is to see why you lost not project over the season. The Lions have a ton hurt and a ton of important guys. That list wasn't counting Levy either long term since he's not on IR. That was the most flawed injury list I have ever seen. It doesn't surprise me with ESPN journalism though.

Read the list, just don't look at the numbers. They counted punters and kickers and nickel backs for other teams the same as Levy and Ngata and Warford.

Injuries are the biggest reason the Lions are 1-5. Plus bad reffing in Seattle. Hell the injury to Stafford's elbow cost Detroit the Chargers game (2nd pick for short field Chargers TD and momentum swing). And the first pick there was helmet to helmet contact by Ingram. Should have been a penalty a wiped out.

The second biggest reasons is turnovers. The Lions need to be able to under inflate the ball like the Patriots do. 8 fumbles by 8 different people in 6 games. Two Dline fluke ints. Two bogus ints against Chargers where Chargers cheated on both plays. Patrick Peterson PI on Calvin not called on the 3rd Stafford int in that game.

This season is the most bullshit bad luck I have ever seen in my entire life. And I'm counting the Broncos, Vikings and Cards game as true losses. But if we replayed them healthier we could win. We should be 3-3 if not for the bullshit refs.

 

[tomdalton22]

This team is garbage. They fooled me big time. There is some talent but the turnovers and penalties are too much to overcome.

Fire everyone and start over.

This is the only post you have made all year that makes any sense.

Injuries, bad calls, unlucky, cheaters...your pathetic excuse list goes on and on. Grow up!

 

[KAWDUP]

So you lower your expectations do to how shitty the franchise has been? I on the other hand do not give a shit how he compares vs the Lions QBs, it means nothing.

Stafford hasn't been a top half rated QB any year besides 2011.

It's sickening to me to watch other games and see a QB escape pressure, drop in passes into "covered" guy, not make the WR stop, reach behind, go down to catch a pass. It's sad watching our games and seeing wide open WRs ignored. Watching a big play go to wasted because he couldn't hit a 15 yard pass. An interception on a short thrown ball when the guy had nothing but green space behind him. Short throwing a open TE in a playoff game so it hits the defender in the back.

The QB play level in 2015 is very high, we are stuck with a guy that puts up numbers like its the early 90s.

I've seen 7 years of this guy, there isn't much to get excited about. A new guy at least brings new hope. If he is worse, so be it. I will take the risk of a new QB. If he ends up being ranked late 20s instead of mid 20s, well it probably wont make a difference anyways.

Now you are just putting words into my mouth to match your hate. I have never lowered my expectation ever.

I am sickened by all the same things you are. I, of course, don't give a shit that you don't give a shit how he compares. I do. So the fuck what? You have said nothing as I am sure you believe I have done the same. Get's us nowhere. I don't hate him. Much of the time I enjoy watching him. About 60-40 I believe I have already stated.

Not sure where that leaves my part of this argument, but I guess I am just about done.

 

[tomdalton22]

That list was beyond dumb. Based on not counting IR for the rest of the year, Lions are in the top 5 in injuries right now for people actually hurt in the first 6 games. the whole point is to see why you lost not project over the season. The Lions have a ton hurt and a ton of important guys. That list wasn't counting Levy either long term since he's not on IR. That was the most flawed injury list I have ever seen. It doesn't surprise me with ESPN journalism though.

Read the list, just don't look at the numbers. They counted punters and kickers and nickel backs for other teams the same as Levy and Ngata and Warford.

Injuries are the biggest reason the Lions are 1-5. Plus bad reffing in Seattle. Hell the injury to Stafford's elbow cost Detroit the Chargers game (2nd pick for short field Chargers TD and momentum swing). And the first pick there was helmet to helmet contact by Ingram. Should have been a penalty a wiped out.

The second biggest reasons is turnovers. The Lions need to be able to under inflate the ball like the Patriots do. 8 fumbles by 8 different people in 6 games. Two Dline fluke ints. Two bogus ints against Chargers where Chargers cheated on both plays. Patrick Peterson PI on Calvin not called on the 3rd Stafford int in that game.

This season is the most bullshit bad luck I have ever seen in my entire life. And I'm counting the Broncos, Vikings and Cards game as true losses. But if we replayed them healthier we could win. We should be 3-3 if not for the bullshit refs.

The only significant injury that the Lions have suffered is Levy. They lost a couple of back up RBs, a guard for a few games, a shitty tackle for a few games; a TE who can't catch for a few, a TE with bad hands and can't block for a few games; a NT that is supposed to be learning how to play in a 4-3 for a few games and lost the Saint's back up DT for 12 games.

 

[LKP]

This is the only post you have made all year that makes any sense.

Injuries, bad calls, unlucky, cheaters...your pathetic excuse list goes on and on. Grow up!

none of your posts make sense dalton.

 

[brewer229]

Now you are just putting words into my mouth to match your hate. I have never lowered my expectation ever.

I am sickened by all the same things you are. I, of course, don't give a shit that you don't give a shit how he compares. I do. So the fuck what? You have said nothing as I am sure you believe I have done the same. Get's us nowhere. I don't hate him. Much of the time I enjoy watching him. About 60-40 I believe I have already stated.

Not sure where that leaves my part of this argument, but I guess I am just about done.

We probably are not going to get anywhere. Since I don't think I understand your position very well. To me it sounds like you are happy with him because he is the best of a group (Historical Lions QBs). If that's how you feel I can't say you are wrong, statistically he is the best QB the lions have had.

Where my position is, compared to his peers (people playing in the same season) he is below average. I don't believe you can expect to win in the NFL with a below average QB in 2015.

If you look at how Lions QBs played compared to their peers, Stafford is on par with Scott Mitchell. Bobby layne would of been our best QB.

However if you look at it in a vacuum then yes Stafford is better then both.

 

[mhughes0021]

Money is the only thing that would make a rookie more appealing. But the Lions have a good amount of cap room next year even with Stafford at 22 million and Calvin at 24 million. So no need to dump him.

I guess production, actually having a decent offense, scoring points. ....those things aren't appealing to you?

 

[tonyballs]

Harder to be a QB NOW??? LOL. Stop.

This game couldn't be any easier for QBS today.

Easier??? Give your head a shake. I don't usually agree with LKP on many things, but he's right. QBs are asked to do too much nowadays and get blamed for everything. Your daughter gets knocked up....must have been that QB that plays for the Ravens. It's pathetic now.
Totally different game now though. Back in the day it was a pound the rock mentality and play defense. Now, it's throw, throw, throw, until you can't throw no more. QBs are protected more and have the luxury of their playmakers to make bigger plays due to ridiculous penalties and rules on defensive players, but I would never categorize that under it "being easier" for QBs. You still have to make the throws and the weapons still need to make the catches. QBs are just protected more than ever because they're the moneymakers of the team and the franchise. They're blamed for everything and expected to do too much. Not so much back in the day and that's a FACT.

Now in no way is this a Stafford rescue. Just merely pointing out my opinions. And if you want more proof to what I'm saying, just check out some of the shit people are saying about Andrew Luck. The guy probably should have won the MVP last year and now there's rumblings and whispers of "is he really that good"? Complete stupidity....

 

[Mitchrapp]

Easier??? Give your head a shake. I don't usually agree with LKP on many things, but he's right. QBs are asked to do too much nowadays and get blamed for everything. Your daughter gets knocked up....must have been that QB that plays for the Ravens. It's pathetic now.
Totally different game now though. Back in the day it was a pound the rock mentality and play defense. Now, it's throw, throw, throw, until you can't throw no more. QBs are protected more and have the luxury of their playmakers to make bigger plays due to ridiculous penalties and rules on defensive players, but I would never categorize that under it "being easier" for QBs. You still have to make the throws and the weapons still need to make the catches. QBs are just protected more than ever because they're the moneymakers of the team and the franchise. They're blamed for everything and expected to do too much. Not so much back in the day and that's a FACT.

Now in no way is this a Stafford rescue. Just merely pointing out my opinions. And if you want more proof to what I'm saying, just check out some of the shit people are saying about Andrew Luck. The guy probably should have won the MVP last year and now there's rumblings and whispers of "is he really that good"? Complete stupidity....

You're right in a lot of that. But I think he's thinking more in the area, can't hit a QB like back then and the way DB have to play the WR now.

 

[inkfreq]

You're right in a lot of that. But I think he's thinking more in the area, can't hit a QB like back then and the way DB have to play the WR now.

A QBs job is a thousand times more mentally demanding today than it was even 20 years ago, but it's also a thousand times less physically punishing.

It's the reason we are seeing more QBs play at a high level at an older age all the time.

Favre was like 8,000 when he retired finally for the 44th time. But right behind him you have Manning, Brady, Brees... all going to play into their 40s. In the case of Brady, he may play into his late 40s.

I wouldn't be surprised if 50 became that new "retirement" age for QBs before long. They train harder and better, there's better science, they take fewer hits, and the hits they take are no where near as hard.

But the mental demands on them are so extreme now. The game in constantly evolving, and defenses are getting smarter, more complex, more advanced, and a QB has to know every possible alignment, stunt, blitz... it's insane.

And everyone knows it's become a QB league. A QB who's team is losing, no matter the circumstances, is the villain. He's the scapegoat.

It's harder, mentally speaking, to be a QB today, than to be the ace pitcher of the Yankees, or the goalie of the Red Wings. Everything is your fault, and no one likes you.

I've even heard fans in Green Bay bitching about Rodgers and why he's not as good as Favre. I mean... fuck.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think most of us were talking strictly about stats...nothing else. The rules today are in place to let the offenses have success, specifically in the passing game. In the past 10 seasons there quarterbacks have thrown for more than 4000 yards 76 times. Prior to that there were a total of 56.

In 1995 they put the clamps down on the defense significantly.

" Protection for defenseless players is clarified and expanded. Since 1982, a defensive player was prohibited from using the crown or top of his helmet against a passer, a receiver in the act of catching a pass, or a runner who is in the grasp of a tackler. The clarification provided that:
Defenseless players included a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, and a player on the ground at the end of a play.
Defensive players are prohibited from lowering their heads to make forcible contact with the facemask, or with the "hairline" or forehead part of the helmet, against an opponent, instead of only with the top/crown.
Defensive players are prohibited from forcibly hitting the defenseless player's head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask.
Defensive players are prohibited from launching into a defenseless player in a way that causes the defensive player's helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the defenseless player's head, neck, or face, even if the initial contact of the defender's helmet or facemask is lower than the defenseless player's neck.
When tackling a passer during or just after throwing a pass, a defensive player is prohibited from unnecessarily and violently throwing him down and landing on top of him with all or most of the defender's weight."

Prior to that rule change there were 4000 yard seasons only 23 times and only 3 players had more than one. Dan Marino (6), Warren Moon (3) and Dan Fouts (3)

Here some of the recent names of multi 4000 yard seasons:
Jon Kitna (2)
Matt Schaub (3)
Stafford (4)
Carson Palmer (4)
Eli Manning (4)

Getting passing stats is easy today compared to the past!

 

[Mitchrapp]

Also look at some older HOF QB's. It was common for them to throw a ton of INT. Defenses could just mug you.. If someone didn't know football history, and just looked at stats, they might think Bradshaw, Elway and Aikman were just average. Even with football history some people probably think that, nonetheless, the game has changed. Why I don't get excited about yards and TD as a total. As above Kitna, twice 4000 yards. Elway, once.

 

[inkfreq]

Also look at some older HOF QB's. It was common for them to throw a ton of INT. Defenses could just mug you.. If someone didn't know football history, and just looked at stats, they might think Bradshaw, Elway and Aikman were just average. Even with football history some people probably think that, nonetheless, the game has changed. Why I don't get excited about yards and TD as a total. As above Kitna, twice 4000 yards. Elway, once.

But by the same token, QBs didn't dominate the game the way they do today.

It's almost impossible to win a SuperBowl without an above average to elite QB in today's game, even if that guy is playing at an elite level for just one season (See: Flacco, Joe).

But guys like Marino never won the big one. QBs were important, but the more the game has evolved for the long pass, the more importance there has been on the guy sligning it.

Defenders used to hit Montana and Rice, take their lunch money, and kick them while they were down by a hit 15 seconds after the play. In comparison to today's game, it was a prison riot vs. flag football.

In the end, stats really don't mean much. A guy who throws a lot of TDs might also throw a lot of picks. A guy with tons of yards might have a low passer rating, and the guy with the massive QBR might not throw a lot of TDs.

But one way or another, the blame always falls on the QB, even if the team around him isn't good enough to get the job done.

 

[Mitchrapp]

But by the same token, QBs didn't dominate the game the way they do today.

It's almost impossible to win a SuperBowl without an above average to elite QB in today's game, even if that guy is playing at an elite level for just one season (See: Flacco, Joe).

But guys like Marino never won the big one. QBs were important, but the more the game has evolved for the long pass, the more importance there has been on the guy sligning it.

Defenders used to hit Montana and Rice, take their lunch money, and kick them while they were down by a hit 15 seconds after the play. In comparison to today's game, it was a prison riot vs. flag football.

In the end, stats really don't mean much. A guy who throws a lot of TDs might also throw a lot of picks. A guy with tons of yards might have a low passer rating, and the guy with the massive QBR might not throw a lot of TDs.

But one way or another, the blame always falls on the QB, even if the team around him isn't good enough to get the job done.

Probably because they get paid the big bucks. But you need to look at each game. The Chicago game, even if we lost, I doubt there'd be many if any who would have blamed Matt. He had a fine game. Arizona, not so much.

So it's easier to blame Matt because of his inconsistent career. The same way we blame Pettigrew or the OC.

 

[mhughes0021]

But by the same token, QBs didn't dominate the game the way they do today.

It's almost impossible to win a SuperBowl without an above average to elite QB in today's game, even if that guy is playing at an elite level for just one season (See: Flacco, Joe).

But guys like Marino never won the big one. QBs were important, but the more the game has evolved for the long pass, the more importance there has been on the guy sligning it.

Defenders used to hit Montana and Rice, take their lunch money, and kick them while they were down by a hit 15 seconds after the play. In comparison to today's game, it was a prison riot vs. flag football.

In the end, stats really don't mean much. A guy who throws a lot of TDs might also throw a lot of picks. A guy with tons of yards might have a low passer rating, and the guy with the massive QBR might not throw a lot of TDs.

But one way or another, the blame always falls on the QB, even if the team around him isn't good enough to get the job done.

That's the point. ...if today's qbs can dominate the game why should we have one that cant?

 

[inkfreq]

Damn... even a discussion on the evolution of the game somehow turn into "Stafford sucks". I didn't even mention the guy. I was discussing ALL QBs... every one of them.

This record is really broken.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Damn... even a discussion on the evolution of the game somehow turn into "Stafford sucks". I didn't even mention the guy. I was discussing ALL QBs... every one of them.

This record is really broken.

It was probably because earlier record stats were being thrown out and your post just got attached. And this is a Stafford thread, at least in a way.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Damn... even a discussion on the evolution of the game somehow turn into "Stafford sucks". I didn't even mention the guy. I was discussing ALL QBs... every one of them.

This record is really broken.

I'd venture to say that 95% of all threads with over 100 posts turn out like this. 2-3 guys are most responsible......one in paticular.

Blocking said poster makes this board so much better......unfortunately.....it doesn't stop the thread derailments!!!

 

[tonyballs]

You're right in a lot of that. But I think he's thinking more in the area, can't hit a QB like back then and the way DB have to play the WR now.

Then he needs to say that, Mitch because it isn't easier to be a QB nowadays. That's complete utter horse shit and we all know it.