Stupid Tigers Trade Porcello for Cespedes + trade Suarez for Simple Simon from reds

[Rebbiv]

Heyward will be eligible for free agency next offseason, so St. Louis is giving up a combined decade of team control over the 24-year-old Miller and 22-year-old Jenkins for one season of Heyward and the possibility of draft pick compensation if he signs elsewhere.

I get that. You asked if DET had anyone like Shelby Miller. From an age and production value, Porcello is better. However, Miller is cost controlled for 2-3 more years. Jenkins is a nobody. His high WHIP and Away splits in the minors is atrocious.

STL also received Jordan Walden in the deal. Walden saved 32 for LAA in 2011 and was an All Star that year. He is a FA in 2017.

Personally, STL made out like a bandit in the deal.

 

[tomdalton22]

I get that. You asked if DET had anyone like Shelby Miller. From an age and production value, Porcello is better. However, Miller is cost controlled for 2-3 more years. Jenkins is a nobody. His high WHIP and Away splits in the minors is atrocious.

STL also received Jordan Walden in the deal. Walden saved 32 for LAA in 2011 and was an All Star that year. He is a FA in 2017.

Personally, STL made out like a bandit in the deal.

We were talking about does Det have anybody like Shelby Miller to trade for Heyward. Shelby Miller who is under team control for 3 more years (Made $500K in 2014) is >>>>>>>>1 year rental of Rick Porcello making $12M in 2015.

 

[spockmaster]

We would have had to add more in, but I dont see how we couldnt have gotten Heyward.

 

[Rebbiv]

We would have had to add more in, but I dont see how we couldnt have gotten Heyward.

Exactly. Just because Shelby Miller was under control for 2-3 years more means nothing if you add Suarez/Lobstein/Crawford/etc/etc as part of the package.

Porcello could have been the starting point.

Also, we could have had Kemp for Kinsler, depending on the details.

 

[tomdalton22]

Exactly. Just because Shelby Miller was under control for 2-3 years more means nothing if you add Suarez/Lobstein/Crawford/etc/etc as part of the package.

Porcello could have been the starting point.

Also, we could have had Kemp for Kinsler, depending on the details.

Atlanta wasn't looking for a one year rental...they were looking to move a rental for a young cheap starter. Would you have traded Porcello for Miller straight up? Do you think St Louis would do that or would they have laughed in DD's face? I think Tiger's fans are over valuing what Porcello was worth in the trade market.

As for Kinsler for Kemp...do you have some insider information or something?

 

[mhughes0021]

Exactly. Just because Shelby Miller was under control for 2-3 years more means nothing if you add Suarez/Lobstein/Crawford/etc/etc as part of the package.

Porcello could have been the starting point.

Also, we could have had Kemp for Kinsler, depending on the details.

Kemp for kinsler instead of porcello for cespedes? I think porcello for cespedes and still having a 2nd baseman is the better deal.

 

[biggunsbob]

Nick Markakis bats left... Plays Rf... average 151 games played over his 9 year career..I do not care about anything other then his .358 Career OBP... Bat him first or second who cares... Would have solved two problems for the Tigers....Why should we care about money.. Heck I doubt Mr I. even remembers how much he has... Nick would have been perfect at the top of our order...

 

[Rebbiv]

Kemp for kinsler instead of porcello for cespedes? I think porcello for cespedes and still having a 2nd baseman is the better deal.

So investing in a 2b for $23 Mil a year and still needing two Outfielders at the end of 2015 is better than a Corner OFer signed through 2019 and solid prospects that can take over 2B?

And who is to say we don't trad Porcello for that 2B?

These aren't either/or proposals.

I would trade Porcello for Carlos Quentin (became expendable when the Padres got Kemp) before I would Cespedes.

I also am not a fan of Markakis. Although his OBP is acceptable, everything else about him is in regression or overhyped as well.

 

[Mitchrapp]

DD goes for the flashy names..A solid player that's perfect for Detroit, he doesn't look that way.

 

[tomdalton22]

Nick Markakis bats left... Plays Rf... average 151 games played over his 9 year career..I do not care about anything other then his .358 Career OBP... Bat him first or second who cares... Would have solved two problems for the Tigers....Why should we care about money.. Heck I doubt Mr I. even remembers how much he has... Nick would have been perfect at the top of our order...

He isn't really that good. A RF with very little power. 733 OPS and only 14 HRs away from Baltimore over the past 3 seasons. .342 OBP over the past 3 years isn't bad though.

 

[Rebbiv]

DD goes for the flashy names..A solid player that's perfect for Detroit, he doesn't look that way.

A guy like Nieuwenhuis and/or Seth Smith would be perfect. None are overly expensive and they provide even more production and value as Cespedes. They are hav

Nieuwenhuis would need a platoon partner like Rajai Davis. They would be an ideal platoon. Both in the batting order and in the field.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Sometimes you just need an OBP guy, even a "not too bad." Because a LHB that can lead off would have been pretty good for this team.

 

[swami45]

You think the Tigers had enough to get Heyward? The Tigers don't have anybody close to Shelby Miller.

It most likely would be a 3 team trade to get him involving those same cardinals.

Remember cardinals were wanting to package Miller with prospects for Price at the deadline. Wouldn't be crazy to think those same prospects going to Atlanta, Price going to St Louis, then Heyward, Walden and perhaps a prospect coming to Detroit.

 

[tomdalton22]

It most likely would be a 3 team trade to get him involving those same cardinals.

Remember cardinals were wanting to package Miller with prospects for Price at the deadline. Wouldn't be crazy to think those same prospects going to Atlanta, Price going to St Louis, then Heyward, Walden and perhaps a prospect coming to Detroit.

there are all kinds of scenarios...but that was Price (legit ace) for a playoff run plus a full season...not Rick Porcello for one year.

 

[Rebbiv]

It most likely would be a 3 team trade to get him involving those same cardinals.

Remember cardinals were wanting to package Miller with prospects for Price at the deadline. Wouldn't be crazy to think those same prospects going to Atlanta, Price going to St Louis, then Heyward, Walden and perhaps a prospect coming to Detroit.

I would do that deal and pretty sure the Cards would also. It would all depend on ATL and what they received.

 

[swami45]

I would do that deal and pretty sure the Cards would also. It would all depend on ATL and what they received.

Atlanta would get the same two pitchers miller and jenkins

 

[Rebbiv]

there are all kinds of scenarios...but that was Price (legit ace) for a playoff run plus a full season...not Rick Porcello for one year.

The difference between Price and Porcello in wins is maybe 1-2 at most, given the same run support. You are overvaluing Price and minimizing Porcello.

The only thing Shelby Miller has over Porcello is 3 years of controlability.

 

[Thumb]

Im giving it a we didn't win shit with porcello and suarez so im fine with trying something different approach.

Same feeling I had when the dumped fielder for kinsler....fielder didn't do shit for years....had no idea why people were so pissy when we let his fat ass go.

Ricky hasn't done shit for years. His best year was last year when he still only won half his starts and we didn't even use him in the postseason....that's his BEST year. im fine with using him to fill a dire OF need with one of the only options on the market.

You have made this argument several times since the trade, and someone has always had to correct you. You are a slow learner I guess.

Fielder was here 2 years; 2012 and 2013.

2012: .313/.412/.457/.819 85 BB, 84 K, 30 HR, 108 RBI, 9th in MVP vote and won SS for 1B Gee, I wish he would have done shit that year...duuuuurrrrrr

2013: .279/.362/.457/.819 75 BB, 117K, 25 HE, 106 RBI - granted a down year, but hardly "didn't do shit" especially when you consider his replacement put up lower numbers than that in 2014.

As someone already posted, I was not upset we traded Fielder, not even upset it was for Kinsler (though not my first choice at all) but that it was a 1 for 1 trade and we also ate so much contract while receiving a bad contract in return. I believe Texas should have tossed in a reliever or a minor leaguer.


Sorry Hughes, you simply have no argument.

 

[byco42]

Maybe they can get back Dirks. Forgot ... they released him because he was injured.

 

[mhughes0021]

You have made this argument several times since the trade, and someone has always had to correct you. You are a slow learner I guess.

Fielder was here 2 years; 2012 and 2013.

2012: .313/.412/.457/.819 85 BB, 84 K, 30 HR, 108 RBI, 9th in MVP vote and won SS for 1B Gee, I wish he would have done shit that year...duuuuurrrrrr

2013: .279/.362/.457/.819 75 BB, 117K, 25 HE, 106 RBI - granted a down year, but hardly "didn't do shit" especially when you consider his replacement put up lower numbers than that in 2014.

As someone already posted, I was not upset we traded Fielder, not even upset it was for Kinsler (though not my first choice at all) but that it was a 1 for 1 trade and we also ate so much contract while receiving a bad contract in return. I believe Texas should have tossed in a reliever or a minor leaguer.


Sorry Hughes, you simply have no argument.

K, now what are his post season stats? And gee....we got to the post season and did nothibg the same as when we did with him. Did he elevate the team when cabrera went down?....no he faded into obscurity and cried about his hooker of a wife. I have plenty of an argument...

Youre argument was our offense would suffer....we ended with the best offense in baseball. Defense heavily upgraded with cabrera and kinsler vs fielder.