Stupid Tigers Trade Porcello for Cespedes + trade Suarez for Simple Simon from reds

[mhughes0021]

You realize his first name is "Alfredo" right? I'm guessing that has something to do with the nickname, and not that crap sauce from a jar.

another reason to trade porcello...who names their kid Frederick?

 

[xer0]

Im giving it a we didn't win shit with porcello and suarez so im fine with trying something different approach.

Same feeling I had when the dumped fielder for kinsler....fielder didn't do shit for years....had no idea why people were so pissy when we let his fat ass go.

it's how alot of the posters on this site are, they complain incessantly about players on the team or about how horrible the farm system is, but when these players get traded away all of a sudden their value is greatly enhanced, or in the prospects case their 'upside'. it's downright laughable.

 

[Rebbiv]

If the trade was Chris Young for Porcello, would that make a difference? Essentially, Chris Young = Cespedes in almost all aspects of the game and similar age. I could show the stats, but too many would ignore the significance.

It is all about value. Cespedes will make $10.5 Mil next year as a below average Corner OFer (average OFer, but too many CFers that skew the data). If you think Cespedes will even see 100 RBIs again in this lineup you are mistaken. RBIs come from opportunities, specifically having Runners In Scoring Position in front of you. It is a TEAM stat.

2014

M. Trout 111 RBIs 118 ABs with RISP, 68 RBIs or 1.7 AB/RBI

J. Abreu 107 RBIs 126 ABs with RISP, 74 RBIs or 1.7 AB/RBI

M. Cabrera 109 RBIs 146 ABs with RISP, 79 RBIs 1.8 AB/RBI

L. Duda 92 RBIs 123 ABs with RISP, 64 RBIs or 1.9 AB/RBI

J. Bautista 103 RBIs 136 ABs with RISP, 70 RBIs or 1.9 AB/RBI

D. Ortiz 104 RBIs 123 ABs with RISP, 63 RBIs or 2.0 AB/RBI

V. Martinez 103 RBIs 132 ABs with RISP, 67 RBIs or 2.0 AB/RBI

G. Stanton 105 RBIs 136 ABs with RISP, 67 RBIs or 2.0 AB/RBI

A. Gonzalez 116 RBIs 186 ABs with RISP, 92 RBIs or 2.0 AB/RBI

J.D. Martinez 76 RBIs 116 ABs with RISP, 56 RBIs or 2.1 AB/RBI

E. Encarnacion 127 ABs with RISP, 61 RBIs or 2.1 AB/RBI

R. Howard 95 RBIs 169 ABs with RISP, 79 RBIs or 2.1 AB/RBI

B. Posey 89 RBIs 133 ABs with RISP, 61 RBIs or 2.2 AB/RBI

A. LaRoche 92 RBIs 142 ABs with RISP, 64 RBIs or 2.2 AB/RBI

M. Holliday 90 RBIs 155 ABs with RISP, 69 RBIs or 2.2 AB/RBI

Donaldson 98 RBIs 147 ABs with RISP, 65 RBIs or 2.3 AB/RBI

T. Hunter 83 RBIs 149 ABs with RISP, 64 RBIs or 2.3 AB/RBI

M. Kemp 89 RBIs 153 ABs with RISP, 67 RBIs or 2.3 AB/RBI

Cespedes 100 RBIs 178 ABs with RISP, 79 RBIs or 2.3 AB/RBI

A. Pujols 105 RBIs 168 ABs with RISP, 70 RBIs or 2.4 AB/RBI

Castellanos 66 RBIs 136 RBIs with RISP, 54 RBIs or 2.5 AB/RBI

N. Cruz 108 RBIs 158 ABs with RISP, 62 RBIs or 2.5 AB/RBI

J. Upton 102 RBIs 162 ABs with RISP, 66 RBIs or 2.5 AB/RBI

Kinsler 92 RBIs 171 ABs with RISP, 67 RBIs or 2.6 AB/RBI

I. Desmond 91 RBIs 177 ABs with RISP, 67 RBIs or 2.6 AB/RBI



Miguel Cabrera

2012 = 139 RBIs 174 ABs with RISP, 89 RBIs or 2.0 AB/RBI

2013 = 137 RBIs 156 ABs with RISP, 99 RBIs or 1.6 AB/RBI

2014 = 109 RBIs 146 ABs with RISP, 79 RBIs 1.8 AB/RBI

Why more opportunities in 2012? Because that was Austin Jackson's career year and Dirks/Berry primarily hit 2nd.

DET hitting 1-2

2012 .272 BAVG .338 OBP .425 SLG .762 OPS 31 SB 10 CS

2013 .290 BAVG .339 OBP .434 SLG .773 OPS 13 SB 7 CS

2014 .283 BAVG .316 OBP .425 SLG .742 OPS 36 SB 10 CS


Yoenis Cespedes

2012 = 82 RBIs 113 ABs with RISP, 54 RBI or 2.1 AB/RBI

2013 = 80 RBIs 128 ABs with RISP, 44 RBI or 2.9 AB/RBI

2014 = 100 RBIs 178 ABs with RISP, 79 RBIs or 2.3 AB/RBI


In 1987, Alan Trammell was made into a cleanup hitter and he drove in 105 that year, his career high.

1986 = 75 RBIs 140 ABs with RISP, 53 RBIs or 2.6 AB/RBI

1987 = 105 RBIs 184 ABs with RISP, 74 RBIs or 2.5 AB/RBI

1988 = 69 RBIs 124 ABs with RISP, 55 RBIs or 2.3 AB/RBI


Where you hit in the order and how many RISP you see in a season dictate whether a player has a chance to drive in 100 runs. Hence why it is a TEAM stat. Proportionally, this whole demonstration could be repeated with Runs Scored. Top of the order hitters, having gotten on base and in scoring position, almost always score at least 100 runs given the right quantity (i.e. 2014 Ian Kinsler).

Cespedes will not drive in any more runs than Torii Hunter and/or J.D. Martinez given the same amount of opportunities. Just because he drove in 100 RBIs last year does not give him an additional skill that others do not have. It was all about opportunities. Nothing more, nothing less.

Last 3 seasons (minus intentional walks)

M. Cabrera = 17.6 PA/HR = 37 HRs @ 650 PAs

Y. Cespedes = 24.6 PA/HR = 26 HRs @ 650 PAs

V. Martinez = 27.6 PA/HR = 24 HRs @ 650 PAs

T. Hunter = 36.4 PA/HR = 18 HRs @ 650 PAs

2014 AL AVG = 42.4 PA/HR or 15 HRs @ 650 PAs

2013 AL AVG = 36.9 PA/HR or 18 HRs @ 650 PAs

2012 AL AVG = 34.2 PA/HR or 19 HRs @ 650 PAs

17 HRs is average power for an AL player.

 

[kmd47]

Im giving it a we didn't win shit with porcello and suarez so im fine with trying something different approach.

Same feeling I had when the dumped fielder for kinsler....fielder didn't do shit for years....had no idea why people were so pissy when we let his fat ass go.

Ricky hasn't done shit for years. His best year was last year when he still only won half his starts and we didn't even use him in the postseason....that's his BEST year. im fine with using him to fill a dire OF need with one of the only options on the market.

Same and the more I look into Simon, the more I don't mind the loss of Crawford as well. Seems to have a pretty good SO to walks rate and should be a more than serviceable 5th starter. Plus, like Tony said, not comfortable AT ALL paying Porcello 100m and hope centipede can step it up with the lineup he will have supporting him this year. Kind of excited to see this offense now.

 

[Rebbiv]

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/yoenis-c-spedes-fire-breathing-054442057.html

 

[Mitchrapp]

Same and the more I look into Simon, the more I don't mind the loss of Crawford as well. Seems to have a pretty good SO to walks rate and should be a more than serviceable 5th starter. Plus, like Tony said, not comfortable AT ALL paying Porcello 100m and hope centipede can step it up with the lineup he will have supporting him this year. Kind of excited to see this offense now.

But Porcello could have got us a pick..Cespedes not so much. 2016 they're both gone anyway..

 

[biggunsbob]

You realize his first name is "Alfredo" right? I'm guessing that has something to do with the nickname, and not that crap sauce from a jar.

Sorry but I cant stand alfredo sauce it makes me throw up....
Your right....I totally slipped my old brain he probably likes that..
LOL
Just trying to lighten the mood about the trade... Everyone is so damn
polarized about it...

Great nickname.... Tell you the truth I am to dumb to see the 'Alfredo Part'
and put two and two together because I never eat that crap.

 

[biggunsbob]

The Fister deal is still worse then either of these deal's combined...

 

[Rebbiv]

The issue at hand isn't necessarily trading Porcello or Suarez, it isn't addressing the team needs. That is why so many didn't like the Fister trade, aside from not getting value.

1. The Tiger lineup is righthanded dominant and they lack any quality lefthanded bat sans Avila. They also lack any quality top of the order hitters who can get on base at a decent clip. How does Cespedes resolve that issue? We trade youth and controlabilty for players 30 and over that aren't cost controlled. Long term, that philosophy is going to cost.

2. Simon could very well be a one-year wonder. Suarez was 22 when he it the majors. His minor league numbers project very well to the ML level.

Simon and Cespedes are Free Agents at the end of the year. Neither will get a draft pick if they walk. The issue is just kicking the can down the road. Sooner or later, we need a lefthanded bat, a top of the order hitter and probably another starter.

How does Cespedes and Simon help for 2016, sans resigning them? Porcello gets a draft pick and Suarez/Crawford were still under team control.

Odds are, Simon and/or Gose will not be on any MLB roster after 2016.

 

[tomdalton22]

The issue at hand isn't necessarily trading Porcello or Suarez, it isn't addressing the team needs. That is why so many didn't like the Fister trade, aside from not getting value.

1. The Tiger lineup is righthanded dominant and they lack any quality lefthanded bat sans Avila. They also lack any quality top of the order hitters who can get on base at a decent clip. How does Cespedes resolve that issue? We trade youth and controlabilty for players 30 and over that aren't cost controlled. Long term, that philosophy is going to cost.

2. Simon could very well be a one-year wonder. Suarez was 22 when he it the majors. His minor league numbers project very well to the ML level.

Simon and Cespedes are Free Agents at the end of the year. Neither will get a draft pick if they walk. The issue is just kicking the can down the road. Sooner or later, we need a lefthanded bat, a top of the order hitter and probably another starter.

How does Cespedes and Simon help for 2016, sans resigning them? Porcello gets a draft pick and Suarez/Crawford were still under team control.

Odds are, Simon and/or Gose will not be on any MLB roster after 2016.

We would all have loved to get a quality LH bat, a guy that can hit at the top of the order who gets on base that is a corner OF who is under team control for Porcello. My guess...no team was willing to give that up.

I don't think Mr. I cares about 2016 and beyond

 

[Rebbiv]

We would all have loved to get a quality LH bat, a guy that can hit at the top of the order who gets on base that is a corner OF who is under team control for Porcello. My guess...no team was willing to give that up.

I don't think Mr. I cares about 2016 and beyond

My guess....DD never tried. Or at the minimum, traded away all the pieces that could have made this happen.

 

[tomdalton22]

My guess....DD never tried. Or at the minimum, traded away all the pieces that could have made this happen.

Top of order LH bat that gets on base and is under team control that plays in the OF. I think players like that are a highly valued commodity. How many guys are out there that even fit that description let alone that a team would be willing to trade?

 

[byco42]

This team is becoming more and more difficult to support. The deconstruction continues.

 

[nsonnett14]

This team is becoming more and more difficult to support. The deconstruction continues.

Yea it sure is tough to support a team that contends for a ship year in and year out , and has an owner and gm that does everything they can to keep the club at the top .

 

[Rebbiv]

Top of order LH bat that gets on base and is under team control that plays in the OF. I think players like that are a highly valued commodity. How many guys are out there that even fit that description let alone that a team would be willing to trade?

In no particular order:

Yelich

Melky Cabrera (Free Agent)

Moss (already traded this month)

Brantley

Nieuwenhuis

Grossman

Fuld

Nava

Seth Smith

Heyward (already traded)

Calhoun

Matt Joyce

Eric Young

Chris Young

 

[nsonnett14]

Top of order LH bat that gets on base and is under team control that plays in the OF. I think players like that are a highly valued commodity. How many guys are out there that even fit that description let alone that a team would be willing to trade?

They are a dime a dozen , didnt you know that ?? And if there are any out there , im sure we could get them on the cheap and wouldnt require giving anyone up . DD sucks !!!

 

[nsonnett14]

In no particular order:

Yelich

Melky Cabrera (Free Agent)

Moss (already traded this month)

Brantley

Nieuwenhuis

Grossman

Fuld

Nava

Seth Smith

Heyward (already traded)

Calhoun

Matt Joyce

Eric Young

Chris Young

LMAO What a great list , outside of Brantley and Heyward the list for guys we could TRADE for is garbage . And Brantley is untradeable

 

[Mitchrapp]

Just have to go to top guy to get a better player, Yelich.

 

[byco42]

Yea it sure is tough to support a team that contends for a ship year in and year out , and has an owner and gm that does everything they can to keep the club at the top .

Well, they are doing it wrong. That's the problem as I see it.

 

[nsonnett14]

Just have to go to top guy to get a better player, Yelich.

Key words to Toms post are . "that a team is willing to trade " ....Like the Marlins would trade a 23 year old gold glover who has just about everything you look for in a ball player . Same with Calhoun , Angels would never trade him