The Official THE GA][V][E Game Thread

[hungry]

I just don't see them making a change with Brown because they're happy with his performance the other 11 games of the year. I don't disagree that something needs to change but it's tough to put it on him when they have no DTs on the roster and they get gashed by the two best backs in the country. The problem is and will continue to be talent until they start recruiting better. They have got to start hitting on some of these top prospects for both lines. They have the skill players to be competitive but if they're losing at the li e of scrimmage on both sides of the ball they won't get a chance to utilize those skill players.

I doubt they were happy with the defense for all of the other 11 games this season.

 

[hungry]

The sad fact is the last 25 seasons Michigan is only 7-18 verses Ohio State. That is a quarter century worth of football. Offense has changed to a modern offense but the defense has just not shown up in recent seasons. What is strange is they seem to be in this Weird cycle of recruiting. Where some years one side of the ball has way better talent then the other side side of the ball. It really is a shame it took until the last 3 regular season games for Patterson to figure it out the new offense.

He has looked great over the last three games. Not sure what to do. I guess keep plugging away at recruiting. To me it was 4 reason we lost Saturday Fields, Dobbins, Osu coaching better then our coaching staff, and to many mistakes by Michigan. I remember reading on here that elite level talent does not make the mistakes Michigan made in the game. That could be true but Isn't that a cop out of the facts their players are coached better then our players. Cooper Osu teams had a lot more talent then a lot of 90?s Um teams, and we still find ways to win many of those games. That is coaching and having your team ready to play. It really is strange because Jim was a lot closer to Osu his first three season then over the last two season. But again the offense scored 39, and 27. The defense has allowed 118 points the last two Osu games. That just can?t happen even in this era of high power offense.

It's not a cop out. The coaches are responsible for recruiting and coaching. It is on them for failing to recruit better talent and for failing to coach that talent.

The 39 vs 27 thing is overblown. Some of those 39 were just meaningless as Michigan was down big already.

 

[byco42]

Stunning that M can’t recruit and develop D-linemen capable of at least standoffs against an O-line like OSUs.

 

[thewolverines24]

Stunning that M can?t recruit and develop D-linemen capable of at least standoffs against an O-line like OSUs.

Get excited because we have ZERO DTs in the 2020 class.

 

[bphillips4gg]

I doubt they were happy with the defense for all of the other 11 games this season.

You're right. I would say that they were unhappy writhe the 3 losses and happy with the 9 wins. Especially games like Army where they won the game with the completely inept offense doing very little.

I just read an article that said Don Brown is a top candidate for the Boston College head coaching position so maybe he'll be gone without the need to fire him (which I don't think Jim would do). Not sure who could replace him. I'd be curious if Chris Partridge would be considered. He's done an excellent job with special teams and is invaluable as a recruiter. I just don't know if that's the answer.

 

[bphillips4gg]

Get excited because we have ZERO DTs in the 2020 class.

And none that they're considered to be in contention for either. Hinton was a 5 star at that spot but it's not encouraging that he played such a limited role his freshman year, especially when it was an area of extreme need.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yep. Pretty much every other rivalry is competitive. As bad as Texas has been for the past decade they've still managed to beat Oklahoma a few times. Auburn has gotten Bama a couple of times. Of course I'd like to beat those assholes every year but I would settle for 50/50. This 1 win per decade shit is old.

The sad thing is that there aren't any coaches that are available that would be a slam dunk to fix the issues. Jim was supposed to be that coach. But who could you reasonably expect to get that you would have confidence in? Fleck? Fickell? Meyer isn't happening. Neither is Saban or Swinney. And outside of those 3 nobody is going to be a sure thing.

its tough. in a way your problems are like ours but not quite as bad. its like having a nicer cabin on a sinking ship. you're obviously in a better position to recruit but in the same challenged region. You have a national brand but right now its the #2 brand in the region. not much you can do about the fact that B1G country has less talent and the conference has higher academic standards than the SEC. Guys like Saban and probably Swinney know how hard it would be to do it. Fickell would probably be a step down for uofm, if you could even get him. I think you either need harbaugh to take them to the next level or you need to find the next Dabo Swinney like Clemson did.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I think you either need harbaugh to take them to the next level or you need to find the next Dabo Swinney like Clemson did.

I?ll take option #1.

MichDad posted this, it reports that Nebraska lost the first times in Osborne?s tenure to rival Oklahoma before going on to win two national title and sharing a third (see what I did there?).

So time will tell.

It?s hoops season now, and baseball will follow.

 

[biggunsbob]

Seriously do we have better talent then Wisconsin or just about every other school in the big ten not named Osu and Psu.

And yet some of those other clubs that lack talent step up and beat Osu every now and then . Msu has beaten them 2-4 times .. was it 2 or 3 ?

Heck we do it to a click of 2-17 last nineteen. Yippe ! It?s not s huge Glaring talent gap. It?s just not that big. Plus the first 3 seasons with Jim against Meyer we had a shot in all three games and should have won at least one of them.

 

[bphillips4gg]

Anyone hoping to see Jim gone is going to have to wait. 247 reporting that Michigan has no plans to let him go. I think he's still the best option but really think it's time for Don Brown to go. I get all the numbers they throw out there but padding stats against the shitty teams on the schedule and getting worked by the good teams means your defense isn't that good. It's just like everything else the past 5 years, overwhelm inferior teams with talent and have nothing for the equal or more talented teams. The gap between Auburn and Bama in recruiting is wider than the gap between Michigan and OSU and Auburn has managed to win 4 of 10 against Saban.

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't think it's JH. OSU is beating everybody in the Big 10. Just heard on ESPN U that OSU is 40-4 in conference since JH has been coach and 2 of those losses were those "flukey" losses to Purdue and Iowa.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Back in the day of Bo and his lineage successors (before Tressel) the conference was referred to as the big 2 and the little 8.

Under Harbaugh, Michigan has probably been the best of the little 9 (or 13).

 

[bphillips4gg]

Back in the day of Bo and his lineage successors (before Tressel) the conference was referred to as the big 2 and the little 8.

Under Harbaugh, Michigan has probably been the best of the little 9 (or 13).

I think it's completely fair to say that they've been the 2nd most successful team in the conference since he arrived. It just so happens to coincide with a time where their rival is elite. If Michigan is in the other division they'd have played in at least 3 conference championship games in the past 5 years. I wonder how people would feel if that were the case, even if they lose all 3.

Now I'm seeing articles about how Bama is "done" because they went 10-2. Victim of their own success. It'd be a damn shame to miss the playoffs for the first time in its 6th or 7th season. It's also the first time since 2010 that there will be consecutive seasons that Bama doesn't win a title. The what have you done for me lately crowd is worse now than it's ever been.

 

[lostleader]

it's been 5 years of top 10 recruiting classes and culture building - it's time to stop blaming hoke and rich rod. there is probably a similar talent gap between Alabama and Auburn but Auburn still gives them a game and even pulls out some big victoiries - and 'Bama is probably more consistently in the top 3 for the Iron Bowl than OSU is for The Game.

I had to let this marinate for a few days before responding. I am not blaming Hoke or Rich Rod as coaches for the reason for the downfall. However after Lloyd left, and Rich faltered the program lost its fight while others were able to capitalize on our demise. UM dug a hole and its tough to get out of it.

All I am saying is that Les more than likely wouldn't have let the program begin to slip and would have been the coach to keep the program moving forward. Now that might mean that UM wouldn't always take the metaphoric high road, but its a dirty business and if we are gonna win and compete UM has to be willing to fight for it.

But maybe not, maybe it would have been worse. Maybe I'm way off base, but under the current SOP of this program, I think we are seeing the best football we will get for the next decade.

 

[lostleader]

I think it's completely fair to say that they've been the 2nd most successful team in the conference since he arrived. It just so happens to coincide with a time where their rival is elite. If Michigan is in the other division they'd have played in at least 3 conference championship games in the past 5 years. I wonder how people would feel if that were the case, even if they lose all 3.

Now I'm seeing articles about how Bama is "done" because they went 10-2. Victim of their own success. It'd be a damn shame to miss the playoffs for the first time in its 6th or 7th season. It's also the first time since 2010 that there will be consecutive seasons that Bama doesn't win a title. The what have you done for me lately crowd is worse now than it's ever been.

Id be pissed

 

[bphillips4gg]

Id be pissed

I would too. That would mean we'd be 0-8 against OSU. Maybe 1-7.

 

[Spartanmack]

I?ll take option #1.

MichDad posted this, it reports that Nebraska lost the first times in Osborne?s tenure to rival Oklahoma before going on to win two national title and sharing a third (see what I did there?).

So time will tell.

It?s hoops season now, and baseball will follow.

I do - and only a week or so after you said nobody does that. very clever.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I do - and only a week or so after you said nobody does that. very clever.

Thanks.

I had you in mind.

 

[Spartanmack]

I had to let this marinate for a few days before responding. I am not blaming Hoke or Rich Rod as coaches for the reason for the downfall. However after Lloyd left, and Rich faltered the program lost its fight while others were able to capitalize on our demise. UM dug a hole and its tough to get out of it.

All I am saying is that Les more than likely wouldn't have let the program begin to slip and would have been the coach to keep the program moving forward. Now that might mean that UM wouldn't always take the metaphoric high road, but its a dirty business and if we are gonna win and compete UM has to be willing to fight for it.

But maybe not, maybe it would have been worse. Maybe I'm way off base, but under the current SOP of this program, I think we are seeing the best football we will get for the next decade.

I hear you and have been through it longer and worse than uofm fans. I just think with 5th year seniors (who may have been recruited but never coached by Hoke) being the only guys left who have any recollection of the program pre-harbaugh, it's time to hold jim accountable for this year any every year after. Presumably, the only 5th year guys left are the ones that bought into whatever culture Harbaugh is building.

 

[thewolverines24]

I don't think it's JH. OSU is beating everybody in the Big 10. Just heard on ESPN U that OSU is 40-4 in conference since JH has been coach and 2 of those losses were those "flukey" losses to Purdue and Iowa.

It really isn't. It's the fact that OSU is not a collegiate football program. Like Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Georgia, Oklahoma, etc., they are a semi-pro program. Their "student-athletes" are simply football players. They can just sign up for online classes and solely concentrate on football.

They also get all the best recruits that they want because those recruits know they'll be paid by boosters to play there.

This is the reality of college football now. The teams that are competing for the playoffs and national championships are the teams that don't give a flying fuck about a single rule. Simple as that.

Tressel is the best thing that ever happened to OSU. Not because of his results on the field or against Michigan, but because he lowered the bar for their standard of caring about rules. He lowered it to the basement, maybe even the Earth's core. They always were hell bent on winning and would cut corners, but Tressel instituted a culture of doing literally anything and everything you can to win. Rules be damned.

EDIT: One other thing, Chris Evans was suspended for an entire season due to an academic infraction at Michigan. Which of the schools I listed above would ever do something like that? None. They'd bury it so he could keep his eligibility.