The truth behind the Lions switch to AM

[tonyballs]

He must be telling the truth then.

Just like Valenti and his agent taking all the "credit" for the Lions move. Add it to the resume. Valenti is the Howard Stern of sports radio and its all about image for him.

 

[inkfreq]

Why would they sell the team? It's multi-billion dollar team for evaluation purposes.

It's a paid for asset running with zero debt aside from mandated annual salary contracts that every team faces. You won't get anywhere near as much selling as you can leveraging the assets and ownership for capital.

Makes zero sense. They aren't positioning for a sale, or they wouldn't have fired Lewand and Mayhew. You don't fire the upper management of a company for sale, everyone knows that. You let the new owner make his/her own decisions.

Those moves are all about the family keeping the business.

In reality, nearly every family business survives the second generation of ownership. The third generation is where talk of sale begins, and if it's not sold in the third generation, it's almost always sold in the 4th.

The Lions are still in the first generation of Ford owners.

 

[cheeno]

Why would they sell the team? It's multi-billion dollar team for evaluation purposes.

It's a paid for asset running with zero debt aside from mandated annual salary contracts that every team faces. You won't get anywhere near as much selling as you can leveraging the assets and ownership for capital.

Makes zero sense. They aren't positioning for a sale, or they wouldn't have fired Lewand and Mayhew. You don't fire the upper management of a company for sale, everyone knows that. You let the new owner make his/her own decisions.

Those moves are all about the family keeping the business.

In reality, nearly every family business survives the second generation of ownership. The third generation is where talk of sale begins, and if it's not sold in the third generation, it's almost always sold in the 4th.

The Lions are still in the first generation of Ford owners.

Yeah Shiela Hamp and the other three daughters would much rather own the Detroit Lions rather than a billion and a half dollars. See how fast the Bills were sold after Ralph Wilson kicked the bucket?

 

[tonyballs]

Yeah Shiela Hamp and the other three daughters would much rather own the Detroit Lions rather than a billion and a half dollars. See how fast the Bills were sold after Ralph Wilson kicked the bucket?

How the fuck do you know what the Ford girls want?

 

[inkfreq]

Yeah Shiela Hamp and the other three daughters would much rather own the Detroit Lions rather than a billion and a half dollars. See how fast the Bills were sold after Ralph Wilson kicked the bucket?

And see how fast Mark Davis sold the Raiders after his dad died?

The move to sell the Bills made zero sense. It was indicative of a father who left an equal share to each kid, with no plan of succession, so the infighting for control began and they quickly realized there would be no resolution short of sale.

But most families don't do that. Even in cases where fourth generation owners inherit a company, it usually take a few years to come to the point of sale.

More often than not, the kids who inherit are more than happy to keep the business, because the dividends are plenty to live on, and the investment value is Forbes worthy.

Plus, selling following a death opens you up to estate taxes, capital gains taxes, etc.. and you lose more than you got in the sale.

Bear in mind, when Martha goes, they will evaluate the capital gains taxes for a sale based on the value the family bought the team for 60 years ago, plus appreciation value vs. the current sale market.

They could easily lose 70% of the sale value right there.

 

[tonyballs]

And see how fast Mark Davis sold the Raiders after his dad died?

The move to sell the Bills made zero sense. It was indicative of a father who left an equal share to each kid, with no plan of succession, so the infighting for control began and they quickly realized there would be no resolution short of sale.

But most families don't do that. Even in cases where fourth generation owners inherit a company, it usually take a few years to come to the point of sale.

More often than not, the kids who inherit are more than happy to keep the business, because the dividends are plenty to live on, and the investment value is Forbes worthy.

Plus, selling following a death opens you up to estate taxes, capital gains taxes, etc.. and you lose more than you got in the sale.

Bear in mind, when Martha goes, they will evaluate the capital gains taxes for a sale based on the value the family bought the team for 60 years ago, plus appreciation value vs. the current sale market.

They could easily lose 70% of the sale value right there.

Common sense isn't needed around here, Ink

 

[cheeno]

And see how fast Mark Davis sold the Raiders after his dad died?

The move to sell the Bills made zero sense. It was indicative of a father who left an equal share to each kid, with no plan of succession, so the infighting for control began and they quickly realized there would be no resolution short of sale.

But most families don't do that. Even in cases where fourth generation owners inherit a company, it usually take a few years to come to the point of sale.

More often than not, the kids who inherit are more than happy to keep the business, because the dividends are plenty to live on, and the investment value is Forbes worthy.

Plus, selling following a death opens you up to estate taxes, capital gains taxes, etc.. and you lose more than you got in the sale.

Bear in mind, when Martha goes, they will evaluate the capital gains taxes for a sale based on the value the family bought the team for 60 years ago, plus appreciation value vs. the current sale market.

They could easily lose 70% of the sale value right there.

You don't see how this is more like the Bills than the Raiders? You explain it right in your post. Five kids, four daughters divvying up one crappy football team quite possibly worth between 1 and 2B? As for the taxes that's why they have lawyers Ink. Lawyers far better than you or me at keeping dimes from the IRS. I'd be very surprised after Martha bites the big one if this team is still in Fords hands. Maybe it will happen before. Check out what's going on with the Saints right now.

 

[cheeno]

Common sense isn't needed around here, Ink

Did you find some new nuts to hug?

 

[tonyballs]

Did you find some new nuts to hug?

I'm hugging his nuts now? Why, because he absolutely fucking owned you and you have nothing for him?

No hugs necessary, retard.

 

[cheeno]

I'm hugging his nuts now? Why, because he absolutely fucking owned you and you have nothing for him?

No hugs necessary, retard.

Because in two separate threads you've followed up some thoughtful posts with one sentence espousals of your fondness.

On another note, I never got this whole getting "owned" thing on a message board. Do you not have any discussion in your own life Tony that doesn't end in somebody getting owned? He has one opinion, I have another, we each gave our reasoning. Who got "owned" and who decides?

 

[inkfreq]

You don't see how this is more like the Bills than the Raiders? You explain it right in your post. Five kids, four daughters divvying up one crappy football team quite possibly worth between 1 and 2B? As for the taxes that's why they have lawyers Ink. Lawyers far better than you or me at keeping dimes from the IRS. I'd be very surprised after Martha bites the big one if this team is still in Fords hands. Maybe it will happen before. Check out what's going on with the Saints right now.

I'm telling you bud, the timing is wrong, the generation is wrong.

I spend my days dealing with a board of a family owned billion dollar company. We're about to enter our third generation of family ownership, and the challenges of keeping this company in the family are beginning, because none of us want to be bought out by some larger corporation who is going to sell us off for parts for tax reasons.

I'm not the CEO, not the CFO, not even the CIO... though I damned well should be, hehe.

But I do sit in on these discussions, and I have for years now. I don't know as much about football as some of you guys, but this stuff I know all about. I know how the board room works, I know how assets get leveraged and sold, and I know how the tax lawyers work.

Everyone around the Ford family, when Martha dies, will be advising them against a sale at this juncture. The next generation will mortgage the company for a healthy sum, and pay down the debt to zero before the next generation after them takes over, so that the capital gains don't kill them. Martha can't do that because she's the direct owner by marriage and inheritance.

And there is a reason Shiela is so involved and Bill Jr. isn't. This is arranging the plan of succession. Shiela will get controlling interest of the company, but the revenue will be placed in a trust they all share equally, so no one can force her to sell, and no one gets cut out.

It's absolutely standard, and to this day, I can't figure out why the Wilpon's didn't have that exact plan in place, unless Fred didn't want any of his heirs to take over.

This is the arena I work in every day. I'm uniquely familiar with this type of scenario.

 

[cheeno]

I'm telling you bud, the timing is wrong, the generation is wrong.

I spend my days dealing with a board of a family owned billion dollar company. We're about to enter our third generation of family ownership, and the challenges of keeping this company in the family are beginning, because none of us want to be bought out by some larger corporation who is going to sell us off for parts for tax reasons.

I'm not the CEO, not the CFO, not even the CIO... though I damned well should be, hehe.

But I do sit in on these discussions, and I have for years now. I don't know as much about football as some of you guys, but this stuff I know all about. I know how the board room works, I know how assets get leveraged and sold, and I know how the tax lawyers work.

Everyone around the Ford family, when Martha dies, will be advising them against a sale at this juncture. The next generation will mortgage the company for a healthy sum, and pay down the debt to zero before the next generation after them takes over, so that the capital gains don't kill them. Martha can't do that because she's the direct owner by marriage and inheritance.

And there is a reason Shiela is so involved and Bill Jr. isn't. This is arranging the plan of succession. Shiela will get controlling interest of the company, but the revenue will be placed in a trust they all share equally, so no one can force her to sell, and no one gets cut out.

It's absolutely standard, and to this day, I can't figure out why the Wilpon's didn't have that exact plan in place, unless Fred didn't want any of his heirs to take over.

This is the arena I work in every day. I'm uniquely familiar with this type of scenario.

I bet you dollars to donuts that family was raised newspapermen (and women). Does Shiela or any of the kids really think their family business is football? To them it was their dad's expensive hobby. They probably have expensive hobbies of their own they want to pursue. And in the case of revenues going into a trust, the Lions lost money from 2005-2013 from the news articles I could find, including -16M in 2013. The only franchise to do so.

 

[tonyballs]

Because in two separate threads you've followed up some thoughtful posts with one sentence espousals of your fondness.

On another note, I never got this whole getting "owned" thing on a message board. Do you not have any discussion in your own life Tony that doesn't end in somebody getting owned? He has one opinion, I have another, we each gave our reasoning. Who got "owned" and who decides?

Because Ink derails you retards with common sense. Pretty simple. You idiots rip on this organization for everything under the sun. So much that you clowns back up what a shock jock sports radio host and his
clueless co-host have to say about our Lions. Eat it up tho....you're justvas clueless as those 2.

Of course you don't understand the terminology of getting owned on a message board. Why the fuck would you? Lol. Think about it. You run your mouth like you have turrets (sp?), then when you get put in your place and somebody points it out, you proceed to attack that person that points it out lol. Its a vicious circle....like clockwork, motherfucker ..baaaaaah.
As for your retarded question that comes from a full blown retard btw.....I dont use the word "owned" outside of this board. No need to.
And who decides? Whoever the fuck wants to....thats who. All you do is spread negativity, but Ink came at you with reason and logic. You're fueled on negativity and hate. Its comical really lol

 

[inkfreq]

I bet you dollars to donuts that family was raised newspapermen (and women). Does Shiela or any of the kids really think their family business is football? To them it was their dad's expensive hobby. They probably have expensive hobbies of their own they want to pursue. And in the case of revenues going into a trust, the Lions lost money from 2005-2013 from the news articles I could find, including -16M in 2013. The only franchise to do so.

You'd lose your dollars and your donuts. Of the entire family, only one of them had a passion for the business and actually works in it. And he's more then likely going to be our next CEO in 2016.

The rest of this generation is living on the family trust fund. They are artists, jewelry makers, and most of them have no job at all.

Which is absolutely typical of a third generation family business. And that's usually when the grumbling begins. They start wanting to know if they can sell the company and invest their money somewhere more profitable.

In order to stave that off, the CEO/President needs to increase their profits in the trust to keep them fat and happy... but that 4th generation is almost impossible to appease.

What will keep Shiela from selling is the tax liability. It's too damaging to her portfolio to sell. Her kids, nieces, nephews, etc.. will not have that liability over them, and that's the generation of ownership that will sell.

 

[inkfreq]

Because Ink derails you retards with common sense. Pretty simple. You idiots rip on this organization for everything under the sun. So much that you clowns back up what a shock jock sports radio host and his
clueless co-host have to say about our Lions. Eat it up tho....you're justvas clueless as those 2.

Of course you don't understand the terminology of getting owned on a message board. Why the fuck would you? Lol. Think about it. You run your mouth like you have turrets (sp?), then when you get put in your place and somebody points it out, you proceed to attack that person that points it out lol. Its a vicious circle....like clockwork, motherfucker ..baaaaaah.
As for your retarded question that comes from a full blown retard btw.....I dont use the word "owned" outside of this board. No need to.
And who decides? Whoever the fuck wants to....thats who. All you do is spread negativity, but Ink came at you with reason and logic. You're fueled on negativity and hate. Its comical really lol

I really don't want to get in the middle of this, because I have a shitload of respect for both Tony and Cheeno.. more then either of you know.

However, Cheeno hasn't attacked me, and I need to say that right now. He's disagreed, which is perfectly fine. No insults, no hurt feelings. Nada.

Let's try to keep things on topic, because this board has been better of late with everyone trying to do so. Again, not trying to get in the middle, and I certainly don't want to point any fingers, but if Cheeno was attacking me, I sure missed it completely.

 

[inkfreq]

Most guys grow up dreaming of playing in the NFL. I grew up dreaming of being an NFL GM. Not the average for a young kid.

When everyone else was pretending to be Staubach and Montana, I was pretending to be the guy signing and drafting the players.

I've spent my whole life studying big business. I have worked my ass of from being a high school dropout (drugs were a bad part of my teen years) to being in the position I am in now, where I hope to sit on the board of directors for a multi-billion dollar media conglomerate one day soon.

When it comes to the moves that take place in those closed door meetings, I know what I am talking about. Most of you guys know what an A gap or a B gap is better than me. Hell, I have to watch replays to see every holding penalty. But the corporate structure... I know that part very well, and I don't miss a move there.

 

[tonyballs]

I really don't want to get in the middle of this, because I have a shitload of respect for both Tony and Cheeno.. more then either of you know.

However, Cheeno hasn't attacked me, and I need to say that right now. He's disagreed, which is perfectly fine. No insults, no hurt feelings. Nada.

Let's try to keep things on topic, because this board has been better of late with everyone trying to do so. Again, not trying to get in the middle, and I certainly don't want to point any fingers, but if Cheeno was attacking me, I sure missed it completely.

Cheeno attacked me, Ink. Not you. Maybe i should have clarified.

 

[cheeno]

You'd lose your dollars and your donuts. Of the entire family, only one of them had a passion for the business and actually works in it. And he's more then likely going to be our next CEO in 2016.

The rest of this generation is living on the family trust fund. They are artists, jewelry makers, and most of them have no job at all.

Which is absolutely typical of a third generation family business. And that's usually when the grumbling begins. They start wanting to know if they can sell the company and invest their money somewhere more profitable.

In order to stave that off, the CEO/President needs to increase their profits in the trust to keep them fat and happy... but that 4th generation is almost impossible to appease.

What will keep Shiela from selling is the tax liability. It's too damaging to her portfolio to sell. Her kids, nieces, nephews, etc.. will not have that liability over them, and that's the generation of ownership that will sell.

I knew there had to be at least one holding it all together. If they are all artists in generation 2 I don't think it would matter. I'm no tax expert so I'll have to concede that point, I do know that the tax lawyers of Billionaires are awfully good at keeping money away from Uncle Sam. In addition to having an investment broker that specifically oversees the Ford's finances in charge of the team, I did see the Bills and soon the Saints being sold after the old man owner passes away. Mark Davis I could see wanting to keep his dad's team and legacy alive, Al Davis was the Raiders. The Ford name is synonymous with cars not football.

 

[cheeno]

Cheeno attacked me, Ink. Not you. Maybe i should have clarified.

What are your thoughts Tony. Are they going to sell the team for a cool couple bill once Martha goes to the big croquet club in the sky? Why? Why not?

 

[inkfreq]

I knew there had to be at least one holding it all together. If they are all artists in generation 2 I don't think it would matter. I'm no tax expert so I'll have to concede that point, I do know that the tax lawyers of Billionaires are awfully good at keeping money away from Uncle Sam. In addition to having an investment broker that specifically oversees the Ford's finances in charge of the team, I did see the Bills and soon the Saints being sold after the old man owner passes away. Mark Davis I could see wanting to keep his dad's team and legacy alive, Al Davis was the Raiders. The Ford name is synonymous with cars not football.

Truth be told, these days it's more synonymous with real estate than cars. But the Lions, operating with zero debt in a highly leverageable position are their real bread and butter.

With the operating money they can get from using the team for capital, they could buy the entire city of Detroit. That's where the real money is, in letting banks give you more money than you would ever need by leveraging your assets.

And the Ford family does that better than any family in football.

The tax hit from selling would be insane. I have no idea, honestly, what Mr. Ford bought the team for, but on the high side in the era he bought it, let's say 3 million dollars.

Capital gains on that is going to allow for a 10% annual appreciation, so over the course of 60 years, it would be 600% the return value before taxes. That's $18Mm.

Anything above that is going to be subject to the highest taxes in the land. If they sold for a billion, which would be low for an NFL team now, they would be paying the 70% upper threshold on every dollar between the appreciated value of $18MM and 1 billion, meaning they would take a HUGE bath.

If the kids mortgage the team for even $100Mm after Martha's eventual passing, it resets the capital gains based on market value, and when the family sells it off, they can sell of for even more, without the huge tax hit.

Tax lawyers are damned good at what they do, but for a first generation inheritance on a second generation owner, you just can't hide that. Uncle Sugar wants his cheddar, and he wants it now, and there's just no real breaks they can get.

They are much better off leveraging than selling based on the original value of the team vs. the current market value and the tax percentages.